Mnemonic Enhancer wand...what do DMs think?

[Carpjay]

I've often thought of making/buying a Wand with this 4th-level Personal spell...one that never quite seems worth it to cast or memorize, but as a wand, freebie spell levels. Cast it when needed throughout the day, especially the preparation option. DMs, would you allow this, or cap it in some way? Or maybe it is not as useful as it seems?

[TDLofCC]

Carpjay wrote:

I've often thought of making/buying a Wand with this 4th-level Personal spell...one that never quite seems worth it to cast or memorize, but as a wand, freebie spell levels. Cast it when needed throughout the day, especially the preparation option. DMs, would you allow this, or cap it in some way? Or maybe it is not as useful as it seems?

Well .. I do not know if it's worth it .. price-wise.

It's a whopping (4(Spell Level) * 7(Caster Level) * 21,000gp) 588.000gp :P

[MoFiddy]

TDLofCC wrote:

Carpjay wrote:

I've often thought of making/buying a Wand with this 4th-level Personal spell...one that never quite seems worth it to cast or memorize, but as a wand, freebie spell levels. Cast it when needed throughout the day, especially the preparation option. DMs, would you allow this, or cap it in some way? Or maybe it is not as useful as it seems?

Well .. I do not know if it's worth it .. price-wise.

It's a whopping (4(Spell Level) * 7(Caster Level) * 21,000gp) 588.000gp :P

Wouldn't the price be 21,000 gp?

4 (spell level) * 7 (caster level) * 750 gp = 21,000 gp

Here is a link to wand prices. Let me know if I am missing something.

SRD Wand link

[Uncle Monkey]

MoFiddy wrote:

Wouldn't the price be 21,000 gp?

4 (spell level) * 7 (caster level) * 750 gp = 21,000 gp

I believe the spell also have a 50GP material component, so that would add 2,500 GP for a total of 23,500, or 13,000 to craft. Expensive, but not horrible.

[Pathos]

Don't forget the 2,500 extra GP because of the material component.

EDIT: D'oh ninja'd

[Majuba]

You're right that it's a powerful wand - essentially it is a wand of any 3rd level spell you have memorized that day, at *your* caster level instead of the minimum. But you have to spend 10 minutes using the wand directly after casting your spell.

It also *would* let you prepare additional spells per day, but it's still +10 minutes for every use.

It's also a bit contrary to the principal of wand use - use them when you need them. Preparing extra spells that you might not use is rather inefficient.

One scary thought is a cleric using UMD with a wand of this.

Edit: 50 gp Focus only, not material component. I believe just one copy of the focus (or just having it?) is sufficient.
Edit Edit: Ah, here it is, Creating Wands, pg. 553 "A focus used in creating a wand can be reused."

[Pathos]

One thing, in re-reading the wand construction are...

The GP cost is for a Focus, as compared to a Material Component. Would the cost still multiplied by x50, since a Focus is not lost in cating?

EDIT: GAH!!! Ninja'd again *face palm*

[Frogboy]

MoFiddy wrote:

TDLofCC wrote:

Carpjay wrote:

I've often thought of making/buying a Wand with this 4th-level Personal spell...one that never quite seems worth it to cast or memorize, but as a wand, freebie spell levels. Cast it when needed throughout the day, especially the preparation option. DMs, would you allow this, or cap it in some way? Or maybe it is not as useful as it seems?

Well .. I do not know if it's worth it .. price-wise.

It's a whopping (4(Spell Level) * 7(Caster Level) * 21,000gp) 588.000gp :P

Wouldn't the price be 21,000 gp?

4 (spell level) * 7 (caster level) * 750 gp = 21,000 gp

Here is a link to wand prices. Let me know if I am missing something.

SRD Wand link

Looks right to me. There isn't an expensive material component or anything. Maybe they were mixing up the divine focus with a material component.

Not sure what the official rule is but we don't allow a self-only spell in a wand or staff to be cast on anyone else but the person holding it.

[Majuba]

You are correct with the official rule, spells don't change by being put in wands. If it's a personal spell, only the wand/staff/scroll user can receive the spell.

Potions simply can't be made with personal spells.

[Cpt. Caboodle]

Well, I'd say the cost to create such a wand would be 10550 GP... half the base cost of 21000 GP for creating it yourself, and an extra 50 GP for the focus item.

And I must say, a wand that gives you additional spells at a rate of 70 GP per spell level sounds quite intriguing...

[Carpjay]

My original idea was for the Big Day...assaulting the keep, etc., loading up on 10 fireballs or 15 extra magic missiles or that special spell you think you need, mainly preparation early in the day. The extra 50 GP Focus cost should only be paid once, and of course it would be cheapest if you could Craft Wand yourself. A flexibility tool.

Thanks for all the feedback.

[james maissen]

Carpjay wrote:

My original idea was for the Big Day...assaulting the keep, etc., loading up on 10 fireballs or 15 extra magic missiles or that special spell you think you need, mainly preparation early in the day. The extra 50 GP Focus cost should only be paid once, and of course it would be cheapest if you could Craft Wand yourself. A flexibility tool.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Go with a staff of it and just try to control downtime between 'big days'.

-James

[Carpjay]

Good call on making it a staff, IF high enough to craft a staff. Could also add Lucubration, etc., but the ability to just recharge it on down days and use when needed is perfect for the intent of the item.

[LazarX]

TDLofCC wrote:

Carpjay wrote:

I've often thought of making/buying a Wand with this 4th-level Personal spell...one that never quite seems worth it to cast or memorize, but as a wand, freebie spell levels. Cast it when needed throughout the day, especially the preparation option. DMs, would you allow this, or cap it in some way? Or maybe it is not as useful as it seems?

Well .. I do not know if it's worth it .. price-wise.

It's a whopping (4(Spell Level) * 7(Caster Level) * 21,000gp) 588.000gp :P

I generally as rule don't allow spells that require a focus to be placed in wands.

[Ravingdork]

LazarX wrote:

I generally as rule don't allow spells that require a focus to be placed in wands.

How come? What reasoning/logic do you give to the players for forbidding it?

[LazarX]

Ravingdork wrote:

LazarX wrote:

I generally as rule don't allow spells that require a focus to be placed in wands.

How come? What reasoning/logic do you give to the players for forbidding it?

Because the focus is an essential part of the spellcasting. And the bulk of spells that require foci aren't usually an issue because they tend to be too high a level for wand use anyway. Staves are different in that they are more complicated to build than wands and conceivably can include the focus essence in their design.

[Galnörag]

LazarX wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

LazarX wrote:

I generally as rule don't allow spells that require a focus to be placed in wands.

How come? What reasoning/logic do you give to the players for forbidding it?

Because the focus is an essential part of the spellcasting. And the bulk of spells that require foci aren't usually an issue because they tend to be too high a level for wand use anyway. Staves are different in that they are more complicated to build than wands and conceivably can include the focus essence in their design.

It seems to me spells that require a focus to cast are idea items to be turned into wands of spells that require that as a focus...

Sorry that was confusing to me. A wand doesn't have to be a straight piece of wood turned to form an aesthetic traditional shape. A shoe could be a wand (all be it a masterwork shoe) but it would be unwieldy.

For a better example a wand of Augury could be a "set of marked sticks or bones worth at least 25 gp" who are then enchanted with augury. When the charges run out, your left with some bones.

Or Plane shift, the wand is a tuning fork that is made of the correct metal for: "a forked metal rod attuned to the plane of travel" The spell completion is triggered by tapping the fork, and as it rings out the caster is transported across the cosmos. Bonus points of it makes wavy lines and goes "doo-de-lee-doo"

[Galnörag]

Galnörag wrote:

Or Plane shift, the wand is a tuning fork that is made of the correct metal for: "a forked metal rod attuned to the plane of travel" The spell completion is triggered by tapping the fork, and as it rings out the caster is transported across the cosmos. Bonus points of it makes wavy lines and goes "doo-de-lee-doo"

I know I know you can't make wands of 5 level spells... but still the idea is sound.

[Galnörag]

Sorry, I don't mean to thread bump, I just came up with a useless magic item, that was inspired by this thread:

(well not useless... but not worth its value)

Offiziersmesser’s Blade

Offiziersmesser was a wizard well known for being paranoid about preparation, always uncertain of what the day might bring he would never memorize the same spell twice, to manage the occasional need for more then one of any given spell he accommodated with endless scrolls, rings of spell storing, and a staff specially crafted to accommodate any situation.

This strangely light object is roughly the size of a dagger hilt. Its somewhat oblong in shape, and seemingly made from wood, but it has been lacquered and painted to a cherry red shine. Off center on one of the smooth sides is Offiziersmesser’s arcane mark.

The staff has a number of utility powers including:

Granting:
+1 Insight Bonus to AC
+5 Enhancement Bonus to Survival Checks

Upon command folds out a +1 Mithral Dagger

The staff can also be used to cast the following spells:

Mage's Lucubration (1 charge)
Mage's Sword (2 charges)
Mnemonic Enhancer (1 charge)
Fabricate (2 charges) [still requires actual material to transform]

It is either valued at 76000 gp, or costs as much to craft.

[Carpjay]

I like the item you describe, and in fact I do always add (not that it comes up much) focus items into the magic items that would need them for the spell. (For example, a wand of identify had a 100-gp pearl as the eye of a snake that was the shape embedded in the wand, at least back when the pearl was needed.)

Well done, sir!

[Raqel]

LazarX wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

LazarX wrote:

I generally as rule don't allow spells that require a focus to be placed in wands.

How come? What reasoning/logic do you give to the players for forbidding it?

Because the focus is an essential part of the spellcasting. And the bulk of spells that require foci aren't usually an issue because they tend to be too high a level for wand use anyway. Staves are different in that they are more complicated to build than wands and conceivably can include the focus essence in their design.

So you have no divine wands in your game?

Even the lowly Protection from evil requires a deific focus.
Others that are very likely to be used in wand form are Bear's Endurance, and all the other stat buffing spells, even a commonly used resist energy needs a focus.

Your divine casters must not have much fun.

Not meaning to have a go at you but all those examples are definitely in Core.

[LazarX]

Carpjay wrote:

I like the item you describe, and in fact I do always add (not that it comes up much) focus items into the magic items that would need them for the spell. (For example, a wand of identify had a 100-gp pearl as the eye of a snake that was the shape embedded in the wand, at least back when the pearl was needed.)

Well done, sir!

The pearl is not a focus but a material component. The cost for crafting an identify wand has to be boosted by the price of 50 of those pearls.

[LazarX]

Raqel wrote:

So you have no divine wands in your game?

Even the lowly Protection from evil requires a deific focus.
Others that are very likely to be used in wand form are Bear's Endurance, and all the other stat buffing spells, even a commonly used resist energy needs a focus.

Your divine casters must not have much fun.

Not meaning to have a go at you but all those examples are definitely in Core.

I'm pretty stingy on wands for both arcane and divine casters. My game is not one where rogues using UMD can replace casters. And also to clarify the generic divine focus required for all divine spells is the presence of the holy symbol or focus on the caster, so that gets a pass as long as the divine caster has the focus on her person. Specific spell foci are another matter.

I did also say my rule is a general rule, not an absolute one.

[TreeLynx]

Galnörag wrote:

Offiziersmesser’s Blade

This strangely light object is roughly the size of a dagger hilt. Its somewhat oblong in shape, and seemingly made from wood, but it has been lacquered and painted to a cherry red shine. Off center on one of the smooth sides is Offiziersmesser’s arcane mark.
...
Upon command folds out a +1 Mithral Dagger

Be prepared!

I see what you did there.

[Carpjay]

"The pearl is not a focus but a material component. The cost for crafting an identify wand has to be boosted by the price of 50 of those pearls."

That is correct, and I misspoke...the wand (or perhaps staff) was an expensive one (assuming I did it correctly), but I was more focusing on the aesthetic value of having components of significance reflected in the design of the item, which I like.

As for the rules on a spell with a focus (not a costly component), you could easily say that the spell contained in the item without the focus required the caster to have that focus on hand still. So a cleric casting a spell requiring a focus could grab the focus while casting the spell from the item. Much cooler, though, to have the focus be part of the item (in fact, the item could be a wand- or staff-sized focus itself), which allows regular casting with it, and adds the cost of the focus to the item quite logically.

But this is wide open to DM ruling, as this thread has shown...lots of ways of doing it.