Alchemists and Nightmare

[thegreatpablo]

This might have been covered elsewhere, but quick question regarding Nightmare. How does this mechanic work? Does the Alchemist imbibe the Nightmare extract and then is able to "cast" it on another? Or does it assume you have Infusion and are tricking (or forcing) someone to drink it?

EDIT: In other words, is the imbiber of the extract always the target? If not, then aside from self only spells, targeted spells like Cure might be broken since you could technically "cast" it on another person. This would also remove a LOT of the benefit from Infusion.

EDIT 2: Replaced "potion" with "extract" where appropriate.

EDIT 3: "An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking
alchemist."

So, that answers that. So you would have to either trick or force someone into drinking the Nightmare extract to get the proper use out of it AND have the Infusion discovery.

[Draajen]

thegreatpablo wrote:

This might have been covered elsewhere, but quick question regarding Nightmare. How does this mechanic work? Does the Alchemist imbibe the Nightmare extract and then is able to "cast" it on another? Or does it assume you have Infusion and are tricking (or forcing) someone to drink it?

EDIT: In other words, is the imbiber of the extract always the target? If not, then aside from self only spells, targeted spells like Cure might be broken since you could technically "cast" it on another person. This would also remove a LOT of the benefit from Infusion.

EDIT 2: Replaced "potion" with "extract" where appropriate.

EDIT 3: "An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking
alchemist."

So, that answers that. So you would have to either trick or force someone into drinking the Nightmare extract to get the proper use out of it AND have the Infusion discovery.

Nightmare:

"You send a hideous and unsettling phantasmal vision to a
specific creature that you name or otherwise specifically
designate."

So the Alchemist drinks the extract which is casting the spell, then they make a connection with the the creature they are trying to afflict the nightmare on. The Will Save Modifier is adjust by knowledge of the creature and by connection.

[thegreatpablo]

Draajen wrote:

Nightmare:
"You send a hideous and unsettling phantasmal vision to a
specific creature that you name or otherwise specifically
designate."

So the Alchemist drinks the extract which is casting the spell, then they make a connection with the the creature they are trying to afflict the nightmare on. The Will Save Modifier is adjust by knowledge of the creature and by connection.

So if this is how the extract works, which I'm perfectly fine with, it does change how ALL targeted spells work including buffs, cures, etc rendering Infusion nearly useless.

Cure Light Wounds:
"When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel
positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage + 1 point per
caster level (maximum +5)."

So the Alchemist drinks the extract which is casting the spell, then they lay their hands upon the ally who needs healing (or undead who needs killing).

I guess my point is that the wording for how extracts work says that the imbiber is always the target of the spell, making an exception for Nightmare seems arbitrary.

[thegreatpablo]

Was hoping to get some feedback on this.

tl;dr version: Does the alchemist have to take infusion and force the target to drink Nightmare in order for the extract to work as intended?

[Quandary]

Hopefully this gets cleared up, Pablo.