Witches have a small number of useful skills compared to the number of ranks per level that they get. I was converting my high level wizard to a witch, and I quickly ran out of skills that were actually suited to her character (sure I guess you could take a bunch of craft skills, but is that really witchy?)
Here are my suggestions for a few additional skills that actually make a lot of sense of a witch:
Knowledge (religion): It is indeed possible that a witch's familar is in fact an agent of a divine being. Also witches in many fantasy novels are priestesses and the like. And if you have a rat familiar, you really should be able to identify undead.
Disguise: Witches have a number of spells and hexes that disguise themselves. It makes sense that they would become adept that this.
Bluff: Witches are cunning and often trick people into taking bites of apples, making deals for first born children, etc.. Also, this skill helps the witch pass of their disguised forms.
Knowledge (local): a witch (cunning as they are) would know much about their region.
Knowledge (nobility): a witch (cunning as they are) would know about princesses and princes and the like so, either so that they could aid them in times of need, or so that they can enchant them for the witches own gain.
Knowledge (dungeoneering): there will certainly be witches, pariticularly those with rat or bat or spider familiars, who are well versed with regards to the dark hidden places under the earth.
I agree with you on Disguise and bluff.
I think it's a bit odd that they have Kn: history. I wouldn't think that witches would be big on knowing about wars, colonies, migrations or the founding of city.
I think they should have kn: geography. Lands, terrain, climate and people all seem like things that a witch would know for anything for growing poisonous plants to scavenging for them.
I would think that Kn: Local would fit too. Legends, laws, traditions, and customs seem paramount for any witch worth her salt.
Survival seems odd not added to me. Too many witches that I can think of have at one point lived in a forest or knew the land well enough to live off of it. At some point, a witch has to eat in that hut of hers out in the middle of the forest when there are no kids around.
Also, just an idea but why not have two kinds of witches or a witch variant choice of some kind? A base class skill list to start off with and then a PC can choose if they'll be a certain kind of witch. A city witch would get Kn:local, ride(flying in the middle of a city seems like it would be hard to practice), and disguise while a nature witch would have survival, fly(seeing how the witch has no fear of being discovered flying in the middle of the forrest) and kn:geography.
Just some thoughts.
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The Bane Company wrote:
Also, just an idea but why not have two kinds of witches or a witch variant choice of some kind? A base class skill list to start off with and then a PC can choose if they'll be a certain kind of witch. A city witch would get Kn:local, ride(flying in the middle of a city seems like it would be hard to practice), and disguise while a nature witch would have survival, fly(seeing how the witch has no fear of being discovered flying in the middle of the forrest) and kn:geography.
Just some thoughts. I think the trait system was built with that kind of character variation in mind without having it ingrain into the classes.
True. Totally forgot about traits although they could only take me so far... :/
The Bane Company wrote: I agree with you on Disguise and bluff.
I think it's a bit odd that they have Kn: history. I wouldn't think that witches would be big on knowing about wars, colonies, migrations or the founding of city.
I think they should have kn: geography. Lands, terrain, climate and people all seem like things that a witch would know for anything for growing poisonous plants to scavenging for them.
I would think that Kn: Local would fit too. Legends, laws, traditions, and customs seem paramount for any witch worth her salt.
Survival seems odd not added to me. Too many witches that I can think of have at one point lived in a forest or knew the land well enough to live off of it. At some point, a witch has to eat in that hut of hers out in the middle of the forest when there are no kids around.
I agree with your with regards to the above. Particularly survival.
Another likely skill is Sense Motive. Witches are known for the intuition and it would make sense that they could tell when another creature was enchanted.
Its deceptive that wizards seem to have few class skills. In fact they have all of the knowledge skills, and that ends up being a lot. My wizards never lack for a skill to train in, that's for sure. And because they are *wizards*, characters with a great deal of book learning, all of the knowledge skills seem in character for them.
Witches get 11 class skills so far, although I don't think Craft and Profession should count seeing as all classes get them but I included them for the sake of being complete.
Wizards get 16 class skills.
Clerics get 13 off the bat with up to 19 class skills depending on which Domains they pick.
Druids get 13 class skills plus they get 4+Int skill points.
I didn't count sorcerers because they don't have the same spell progression as the others.
It just feels that Witches are getting too little class skills when compared with the other classes and I don't really see why that is.
moon glum wrote: Witches have a small number of useful skills compared to the number of ranks per level that they get. I was converting my high level wizard to a witch, and I quickly ran out of skills that were actually suited to her character (sure I guess you could take a bunch of craft skills, but is that really witchy?) You're not limited to class skills. Non-class skills bought are one-for-one, so while they may not get the +3 class bonus, they can still be pretty good, especially at higher levels (when that +3 doesn't matter as much).
You can give your witch (or any class) whatever skills your heart desires.
That said, bluff and survival as well as most knowledge skills strike me as appropriate (especially with the witch's reputation for knowing things she shouldn't).
The Bane Company wrote: Witches get 11 class skills so far, although I don't think Craft and Profession should count seeing as all classes get them but I included them for the sake of being complete.
Wizards get 16 class skills.
Clerics get 13 off the bat with up to 19 class skills depending on which Domains they pick.
Druids get 13 class skills plus they get 4+Int skill points.
I didn't count sorcerers because they don't have the same spell progression as the others.
It just feels that Witches are getting too little class skills when compared with the other classes and I don't really see why that is.
Your statistics actually demonstrate why it "feels" like witches get too few class skills. They have fewer class skills than clerics, yet will have more skill points than clerics.
My human wizard I am converting to a witch has 9 skill points per level (5 for Int 20, 2 for class, 1 for human, 1 for favored class) at 1st-7th, 10 at 8th-14th. That is kind of the max for a 1st - 7th level character (many characters will have only 7 skill points per level).
Also I think the skills don't completely allow for the variety of witches that people will want to create.
The Bane Company wrote: I agree with you on Disguise and bluff.
I think it's a bit odd that they have Kn: history. I wouldn't think that witches would be big on knowing about wars, colonies, migrations or the founding of city.
I think they should have kn: geography. Lands, terrain, climate and people all seem like things that a witch would know for anything for growing poisonous plants to scavenging for them.
I would think that Kn: Local would fit too. Legends, laws, traditions, and customs seem paramount for any witch worth her salt.
Survival seems odd not added to me. Too many witches that I can think of have at one point lived in a forest or knew the land well enough to live off of it. At some point, a witch has to eat in that hut of hers out in the middle of the forest when there are no kids around.
I definitely agree about Disguise, Bluff, Knowledge: Local, and Survival. All of those seem like quintessential witch skills to me.
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