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We've had two contradictory assessments of their future so far:
The Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide paints them as a doomed culture, an inevitable casualty to the encroachment of "proper" civilization into Varisia. Of course, this may have been painted by the voice of the NPC espousing those views, a known Chelaxian expansionist.
The Campaign Setting, on the other hand, refers to them as possibly becoming Golarion's newest true ethnicity. That's a much more hopeful picture.
I'm probably going to wind up using the results of our current campaign as the tipping point between those two eventual outcomes, but I was wondering about other folks' opinion on which road the Shoanti are going.
(p.s. Paizo, the next time there's a big expansive write-up on all the ethnicities of the Inner Sea region, please don't forget the Shoanti!)
It depends.
But, if things don't change, the Shoanti culture will "die" in the same sense that Native American culture has died.
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OMG I hope the rules aren't going to change again any time soon! This reprint, which WILL have more crunch in it, will not need a revision for many, many years, I hope. Relaunching editions is a grisly and grueling ordeal that we STILL haven't recovered from. I'm hoping it'll be 10 years at least before we have to think about doing something like that again... which means that the revised Campaign Setting will be good for quite some time.
And yes... we'll be putting the Shoanti in as an ethnicity. Not the Arcadians though, since they're not really a presence in the Inner Sea region. Maybe some day if we do a book about Arcadia...
At least now the Shoanti will be acknowledged in the broader campaign setting.
I suspect the truth lies somewhere between the two accounts. Bloody conflict will ensue.
The Korvosans hardly have the power to scour the Plateau from all barbarians, even if they wanted.
I bet Wayfinder's Ask a Shoanti would have lots to say about this thread
*cast Summon Michael Kortes*
fat chance that summons will work...
The Korvosans hardly have the power to scour the Plateau from all barbarians, even if they wanted.
It's cheaper to subcontract that out to adventurers. :)
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The Korvosans hardly have the power to scour the Plateau from all barbarians, even if they wanted.
I was thinking more along the lines of steady erosion of their number and culture by Chelish settlers as a whole, along with the more aggressive factors of the Hellknights, Belkzen, etc.
The Shoanti are going to be in the revised campaign setting as an ethnicity. The mention of them being "doomed" is indeed a bit of in-character prejudice/ignorance creeping in.
Just saw that in the other thread! Awesome!
UPDATE: NEED-TO-PESTER-JAMES-JACOBS LEVEL LOWERED TO GREEN
We of the Skoan-Quah will remain.
I bet Wayfinder's Ask a Shoanti would have lots to say about this thread
*cast Summon Michael Kortes*
fat chance that summons will work...
T'is true, my SR is off the hook.
It would certainly be an arrogant thing to speak on behalf of all my people - which is why I intend to do it.
Mikaze's question is something we frequently debate around the campfire. That whole 'last man versus civilization' shtick is pretty bad-A$$ and I'd hate to see it totally debunked. Even James Cameron is cashing in. On the other hand, the suggestion that the Shoanti could go extinct defies the boundaries of realism, even for a high-fantasy game.
As such, I'd like to have it both ways. At least until it's proven why that cannot be so.
-Ask
P.S. Very stoked about the revised Campaign Setting.
P.P.S. Looking forward to reading the new Wayfinder!!
P.P.S. Looking forward to reading the new Wayfinder!!
You guys can read?!
;-)
We of the Skoan-Quah will remain.
Irok devit fendrik swork.
(by blood it is sworn)
You guys can read?!;-)
That is like sooooo 3.5.
I was going to retort 'And dragons can type?' and close with a 'hunt and peck' joke, but then I remembered that they named a line of voice recognition software after you guys.
(P.S. Neil - a shout out to the Bestmasters!)
I was going to retort 'And dragons can type?' and close with a 'hunt and peck' joke, but then I remembered that they named a line of voice recognition software after you guys.
That...plus silver dragons can change shape, you know? ;-P
(P.S. Neil - a shout out to the Bestmasters!)
Right back at ya! Bestmasters represent!
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Did anyone get a look at Tad Kilgore's "Riders of the Hak" that came out for Dave Arneson's Blackmoor setting? It featured the Peshwah, Dave's Native American influenced race, and it has influenced the way I am portraying the Shoanti in my weekly Pathfinder game.
Tad also did an arc of adventures for the "living" version of DA's Blackmoor that featured that featuring the Peshwah. They were, in my opinion, all the way to eleven.
Anyone wanting ideas for a Native American influenced culture, Shoanti included, might want to hunt for some of Tad's stuff.
EDIT: Tad's Peshwah arc, "The Epic of Hadeen", is available for free download at:
Zeitgeist Games
My personal favorites (and the most brutal, combat wise) are Episodes 22 and 27.
Epic of HadeenEpisode 4 DAB – RP01 Blood Wind by Tad Kilgore
The High Hak is a deadly place for even its hardiest of residents. Peshwah nomads tred carefully for the land is riddled with treachery. Among these nomads, trust is not given lightly, but in this harsh environment, adventurers will quickly learn the true need for trust. A Dave Arneson’s Blackmoor adventure for PCs levels 1-6.
Episode 14 DAB - RP-02 Tower of Salt by Tad Kilgore and Tim Barth
The Zah are mystics. The Peshwah say their vision pierces the veil of time and flesh and penetrates past, future and spririt. Is your old friend the Chosen of Hadeen? Is he the one destined to find the artifact that unites the Twelve Tribes and leads them to victory against the Afridhi? Only a trip to the Tower of Salt to consult with the wisest of the Zah will inidicate what is possible, what is true, and what your destiny might be. A Dave Arneson’s Blackmoor adventure for PCs levels 2-8.
Episode 22: You Shall Know Them By Their Deeds By Tad Kilgore.
Among the Peshwah, to say a thing, is to do a thing. To break one's word is to become less than whole. To bear false witness is a mortal sin. But the Cult of Calelrin worships the Peshwah god of lies and wields deception and deceit with the same grace and skill the finest swordsmen uses with good steel. Who is their next target? Who are they? What schemes have they made? What do they plan for the Chosen of Hadeen? A Dave Arneson's Blackmoor adventure for levels 1 to 8.
Episode 27: Scaled Vengeance By: Tad L.J. Kilgore and David Brainard
Knowledge as old as the land can offer guidance, but can also corrupt. The answer to one question forces the proffering of a second, taking the inquisitive places sometimes dark and strange. Desperate Peshwah have searched a great many years for the knowledge to restore their fallen god Hadeen. Peshwah Na Sulla now calls upon you again to walk a dangerous path in search of answers. A two round Dave Arneson's Blackmoor Adventure for heroes level 4-10. Part Four of the Epic of Hadeen series
Episode 50: Prey by Tad Kilgore
In the Wolf Wood, rival clans of wolfs and men war, each side seeking dominance and absolute power over the other. Between the two groups has long dwelled a tribe of xenophobic Westryn, seeing the werewolves as the purest incarnation of humankind. But the Elves must confront their own darkness and their own taint. Something twisted dwells within their heart and spreads among them like a plague. Peshwah na Sulla calls upon you to travel with him into this land, and seek the fallen Arrows of Hadeen.
A one round adventure for Dave Arneson's Blackmoor, for character levels 4 through 12. Part V in the Epic of Hadeen.
It would certainly be an arrogant thing to speak on behalf of all my people - which is why I intend to do it.
Mikaze's question is something we frequently debate around the campfire. That whole 'last man versus civilization' shtick is pretty bad-A$$ and I'd hate to see it totally debunked. Even James Cameron is cashing in. On the other hand, the suggestion that the Shoanti could go extinct defies the boundaries of realism, even for a high-fantasy game...
There you go :)
And if you would like to hear more Shoanti lore from a true Shoanti, just check out Wayfinder and Ask a Shoanti!
PS: GREAT advice on WF2 Ask a Shoanti, just as usual :D
The Shoanti will go extinct, of course. All races and reality itself will sooner or later go extinct as the Void recovers this currently lost ground.
But I don't think they'll go quietly and let themselves be lorded over and domesticated by some Korvosan fops.
No, I think they might stick around long enough to die screaming* with the rest of them.
*Or laughing. A not-altogether-reliable source tells me that the sensation of reality itself crumbling down around you tingles.
That...plus silver dragons can change shape, you know? ;-P
Hey that's great. I think it really speaks to your species' character that you're not insecure about having to use alter self to get basic life tasks done.
There you go :)And if you would like to hear more Shoanti lore from a true Shoanti, just check out Wayfinder and Ask a Shoanti!
Hey - wait a second. Was I just summonsed to set up a plug? I feel so. . . I feel so. . . commercial. : )
(Awesome job on Wayfinder Hugo!)
Hey that's great. I think it really speaks to your species' character that you're not insecure about having to use alter self to get basic life tasks done.
Alter self?! My dear boy, don't pretend to wrap your head around such concepts. Though some among your species can learn the mysteries of magical things, I'm afraid it skipped the gene pool among your tribe. And besides, if you knew anything about my kind, you'd know our ability to change shape is supernatural in origin. And it duplicates the effects of polymorph, NOT alter self.
Lastly, as long as we're comparing the insecurities of our relative species, let us also note that I'm not the one overcompensating for a lack of natural "weapons" by carrying around an earthbreaker, greataxe, or greatsword...or wrapping myself in the hides of other creatures to protect my fleshy skin. I don't have to rely on such crutches to make my way through life. Teeth, claws, and scales come naturally to dragons. It helps us to accomplish those...what did you call them?...oh yes, basic life tasks. ;-P
Even so, I do like your people. I've even gone out of my way to walk among them and help them from time to time. So, best wishes to you on that "advice columnist" career thing you're pursuing. I expect your tribemates are very proud of you. ;-)
Just because the culture is doomed does not mean the people are. The Shoanti may over time intergrate themselves into the region as a whole and the culture will suffer and the more advanced "civilization" dominates. But the people will still be there, the ethinicty
Just because the culture is doomed does not mean the people are. The Shoanti may over time intergrate themselves into the region as a whole and the culture will suffer and the more advanced "civilization" dominates. But the people will still be there, the ethinicty
You misunderstand. When I say "We of the Skoan-Quah will remain," what I mean is, "We of the Skoan-Quah will crush the Chelaxian interlopers beneath our mighty earthbreakers."
Alter self?! My dear boy, don't pretend to wrap your head around such concepts. Though some among your species can learn the mysteries of magical things, I'm afraid it skipped the gene pool among your tribe. And besides, if you knew anything about my kind, you'd know our ability to change shape is supernatural in origin. And it duplicates the effects of polymorph, NOT alter self.
Still, it's all very limited. Not only are you limited to shapes that silly goose nature came up with (very dull and inimaginative, that one), you're limited to a subset of those natural creatures.
But some are comfortable in their chains.
Lastly, as long as we're comparing the insecurities of our relative species, let us also note that I'm not the one overcompensating for a lack of natural "weapons" by carrying around an earthbreaker, greataxe, or greatsword...or wrapping myself in the hides of other creatures to protect my fleshy skin.
I do the hide thing to insult creatures I don't like. "Hey, you're so tough, buddy? I'm wearing better members of your species as a vest!"
Even so, I do like your people. I've even gone out of my way to walk among them and help them from time to time. So, best wishes to you on that "advice columnist" career thing you're pursuing. I expect your tribemates are very proud of you. ;-)
He's the only of his tribe that considers writing a basic life task. Most consider it a "southern wimp thing"
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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You guys can read?!;-)
That is like sooooo 3.5.
I was going to retort 'And dragons can type?' and close with a 'hunt and peck' joke, but then I remembered that they named a line of voice recognition software after you guys.
(P.S. Neil - a shout out to the Bestmasters!)
Well we can type, just need heavy duty keyboards (or a feat from Dragonlance)
Edit: Or Dominate person and a chewtoy to type for us.