I'm running an adventure with two or three characters routinely dealing (non-critical) damages around that. They are level 6. The easiest thing I've found to counter them are a) flying monsters, b)anything with a static miss chance (such as from blur) or c)not letting them set up to charge.
The first forces them to switch to their backup weapons rather than their greatswords and lances. The second is simple with the right monster selections or tossing out some levels of wizard on to something with an Int of 13 or better. The last requires tactics and terrain and a little luck. You can mitigate this by equipping your humanoid monsters with spears or other brace weapons or by having them fight things with (natural) reach. Having to take that AoO to charge makes people think twice, especially against hulky minotaurs or trolls.
Anyway, back to the OP:
As your mount could well be a horse and not have the intelligence to take regular feats such as Improved Overrun, my ruling would be that it is the rider, not the mount, that is making the attempt. Also, as it is the rider's skill and not the mount's, I would use the rider's CMB. This may not seem realistic (why I am using my strength and not the horse's?) but all rules are an abstraction anyway.
If you are getting an intelligent mount (either the dragon or the...dwarf...) things get wonky. I've been struggling with my players planning to pick up advanced mounts from the leadership feat. One is taking a dracolisk, three are getting griffons, one a giant owl and the last is getting a half-dragon riding lizard. All of these mounts end up with intelligences above 6, making them fully capable of making their own decisions and taking their own actions independent of the rider.
At that point, I would likely require the feats and checks to come from the mount and not the rider (as they are in a companion situation and not a master-mount situation) with the rider being able to offer aid (through Aid Another checks [which we have houseruled somewhat]) to the mount when necessary.
Mounts are an option that I hope is better explored and more clearly explained when the APG comes out. As there is a class that seems to be largely dedicated to mounted combat, I should hope there will be something.
or a flying, permanently enlarged dwarf mount.
Well, if the dwarf is OK with that and you are OK with that, I GUESS it shouldn't be a problem...
Yeah. I'm really curious about that too.
Also, dragons that you can ride (usually large) have such prohibitively high ECLs that I have no idea how you plan to get one. The player with the half-dragon riding lizard had to be talked into getting that instead of waiting until level 18 to be able to get a large sized dragon via Leadership. A dragon's ECL is listed as CR +8. We ruled that a half-dragon's APL was CR +2, rounded up (in the case of partial CR base creatures). This let the player get his "drake" mount at level 9. [Frilled lizard (2) + half dragon template (2) + ECL modifier (2) = 6, which requires a level 8 character to take the feat, with the next available feat at level 9.)
... so I'd also love to see other DM's opinions on how to deal with mounted chars that deal ~50 damage on a charge at level 5
Setting for a charge can also be useful. It may also be easier to attack the mount than the rider.
I was wondering if there were anymore insights or official word on this topic?
A human takes the Mounted Combat and Trample feats. The human rides a combat-trained horse with the standard horse feats. When the human uses the Trample feat to make an overrun attempt with the horse...
1) Do the human and the horse both provoke an attack of opportunity from the target?
2) Does the human or the horse make the CMB check.
the rules seem poorly written here, suggesting that it's THE RIDER performing the overrun for all intents and purposes, and your mount merely contributing a hoof. there's only so much abstraction i can take and a little verisimilitude goes a long way.
It's the mount doing the trampling, providing weight, muscle and size.an experienced rider should certainly be able to steer his mount so as to trample the target more properly, which could translate into using the riders BA(if better) when calculating CMB for the trample.
Trample denies the target the possibility to avoid the overrun and with no feat available to explicitly remove the AoO part, i would just include
that with trample.
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All the Riding Combat feats depend on the PC having the feats. It is not dependent on the mount's feats at all. This allows for you to use the feats with purchased animals and not just companions. Otherwise a non-companion class might never be able to use them. This counts for both 1 and 2 questions. You can think of it as knowing how to guide the mount properly to do an overrun maneuver, like a pilot doing a maneuver.
Classes with companions just have an additional advantage by their mounts having their own feats to work with as well
Ok so i read all the archives about mounted combat and they answered a few questions, but there were a few points that need a little bit more clarity.
Uder the Overrun rules section, it says "if you do not have the Improved Overrun feat, or a similar ability, initiating an overrun provokes AoO." Comparing the Trample and Improved Overrun feats, they seem similar in nature, so:
1) When using Trample, does my mount and/or I need imp overrun to avoid AoO?
Also:
2) When using Trample, do I or my mount make the overrun check? Or if i contribute my actions to aid in the overrun, using my feats, would i do the check instead of the mount?
This is particularly important, since at later levels i might be comtemplating either a tamed dragon mount, or a flying, permanently enlarged dwarf mount. it's a tricky choice
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I was wondering if there were anymore insights or official word on this topic?
Appears we have a case of thread necromancy. Excellent. *rubs hands*
Uder the Overrun rules section, it says "if you do not have the Improved Overrun feat, or a similar ability, initiating an overrun provokes AoO." Comparing the Trample and Improved Overrun feats, they seem similar in nature, so:
1) When using Trample, does my mount and/or I need imp overrun to avoid AoO?"
A similar ability refers to another ability that explicitly says you don't take an AoO. "Similar in nature" is insufficient. Trample doesn't include this, so an AoO is still provoked. Ride By Attack would be an example of a similar ability.
Both mount and rider provoke AoO; negation of AoO is determined for each based upon abilities. If the target can only take one AoO, he can choose whom to attack. If he can take multiple AoO, he can attack both. Note that Mounted Combat is a prerequisite for Trample, so unless already used, the rider will get a Ride check to negate any hit on the mount. The rider can also use a Ride check to take cover to avoid the attack on him (cover negates AoO), although this might limit attacking options for the rider.
A human takes the Mounted Combat and Trample feats. The human rides a combat-trained horse with the standard horse feats. When the human uses the Trample feat to make an overrun attempt with the horse...
2) When using Trample, do I or my mount make the overrun check? Or if i contribute my actions to aid in the overrun, using my feats, would i do the check instead of the mount?
Overrun involves moving through the opponent's space. When mounted, the mount is doing the movement. The mount executes the CMB. The rider provides the benefit of the Trample feat in terms of non-avoidance and the mount's hoof attack.
That said, I also think it's unclear, as are most of the mounted combat rules. Trample is taken by the rider. The text of Trample reads as if the rider takes the check. I wouldn't be surprised to see it either way. Aid Another seems to be something to consider here, or an addition to the feat tree.
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It seems that a good case can be made in the above posts of answering this question either way, which doesn't help with clarification at all. Have any game designers dared offer their input on how Trample actually works?
First of all, an overrun attempt (which is how you use the Trample feat) is a standard action. That means neither you nor your mount get to also make attacks of any kind beyond the free hoof attack your mount gets to make against any target you knock down. It's also normal movement, so you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal (unless you have the Improved Overrun feat as well).Size doesn't matter at all for this feat; unlike the monster special attack which is also (unfortunately) called trample, this feat only cares if you knock someone down with your overrun combat move. You'd use either the rider's or the mounts CMB, whichever is higher.
Based on James comments I think I will play Trample this way:
Does a mount without a hoof or claw attack and only a bite attack, get a free bite attack? I think not, although James didn't address this question specifically
Do the rider and the mount take AOOs? Yes, unless the rider has Ride-By-Attack also.
Do you use the rider or the mounts size for determining the size of the target that can be trampled? James says it doesn't matter for the feat, but it does seem to matter for the overrun action. I'll use the mounts size.
Do you use the rider or the mounts CMB for determining if the feat is successful? Whichever is better.