As I was reading the summoner class, especially the bits about how the summon is a mere aspect of some greater being, it naturally sparked questions of wether or not the summoner could use the Gate spell to pull in the full form of the hideous tentacled beast from beyond the planes. (or hundred clawed kitty from the seven heavens, or even the firebreathing twin headed serpent of many tails from the abyss) I was wondering if there would be a ruleset available for creating such a full form.
Possibly advanced options such as a true breathweapon, or scaling abilities like improved poison.
If thats not an option even a sidebar with suggested stats like recomended CR or HD
Sounds like something fun for epic levels, but I think if we suggest thinking about the epic versions of classes that aren't even in a book yet, the staff might rebel. :)
But I wasn't talking about Epic play. The Summoner gains the ability to cast Gate as a SLA 3+cha times per day at level 19. Gate as a spell states that you are able to attempt to call a specific entity. Personally I think I would prefer the true Eidolon to the twin eidolon, as cool an ability that already is (just I like the swallow whole ability and turning back into yourself after you kill an enemy like that has painful implications)
Who said that the "real" Eidolon is A) more powerful than the Summoner-altered "little" Eidolon, and B) amenable to being Called to the Prime Material? The Eidolon class feature does not state that the Eidolon is an aspect of a "greater" being, just a "powerful outsider". Astral Devas are generally considered powerful outsiders (CR 14 angel), but it's doubtful you'd want to waste a gate to Call one at level 19.
Also remember that if something is killed when it's gated on to the Prime Material, it's dead, Jim. All it takes is a dimensional anchor and an alpha-strike and you're suddenly a wizard with bad spell progression and a cruddy spell list. Forever. And you can't protect it with Life Link, either, because it's not your Eidolon if you gate in the "real" creature.
It's a bad idea from pretty much every perspective.
Who said that the "real" Eidolon is A) more powerful than the Summoner-altered "little" Eidolon, and B) amenable to being Called to the Prime Material? The Eidolon class feature does not state that the Eidolon is an aspect of a "greater" being, just a "powerful outsider". Astral Devas are generally considered powerful outsiders (CR 14 angel), but it's doubtful you'd want to waste a gate to Call one at level 19.
Also remember that if something is killed when it's gated on to the Prime Material, it's dead, Jim. All it takes is a dimensional anchor and an alpha-strike and you're suddenly a wizard with bad spell progression and a cruddy spell list. Forever. And you can't protect it with Life Link, either, because it's not your Eidolon if you gate in the "real" creature.
It's a bad idea from pretty much every perspective.
But that begs the question, what if you gate in someone else's eidolon? Presumably the BBEG can figure out your eidolon's true name (or vise versa).
But that begs the question, what if you gate in someone else's eidolon? Presumably the BBEG can figure out your eidolon's true name (or vise versa).
Presumably BBEG doesn't leave his Eidolon unsummoned. As a DM I wouldn't allow the same non-deity creature to exist in two different places on the same plane of existence at the same time.
Either way, that's just one more reason why this door is best left firmly closed.
But that begs the question, what if you gate in someone else's eidolon? Presumably the BBEG can figure out your eidolon's true name (or vise versa).Who said that the "real" Eidolon is A) more powerful than the Summoner-altered "little" Eidolon, and B) amenable to being Called to the Prime Material? The Eidolon class feature does not state that the Eidolon is an aspect of a "greater" being, just a "powerful outsider". Astral Devas are generally considered powerful outsiders (CR 14 angel), but it's doubtful you'd want to waste a gate to Call one at level 19.
Also remember that if something is killed when it's gated on to the Prime Material, it's dead, Jim. All it takes is a dimensional anchor and an alpha-strike and you're suddenly a wizard with bad spell progression and a cruddy spell list. Forever. And you can't protect it with Life Link, either, because it's not your Eidolon if you gate in the "real" creature.
It's a bad idea from pretty much every perspective.
You can't gate in unique creatures unless they choose to come through.
Now the question is whether or not each Eidolon is unique. I would think so since non-unique creatures are normally a "stock" version of that race.Unique=templated or born with special powers outside or the normal race(spell like abilities for a human would count, while sorcerer class powers would not) IMHO
Another example would be the ability to gate in a horn devil, but not an advanced one.
But that begs the question, what if you gate in someone else's eidolon? Presumably the BBEG can figure out your eidolon's true name (or vise versa).Presumably BBEG doesn't leave his Eidolon unsummoned. As a DM I wouldn't allow the same non-deity creature to exist in two different places on the same plane of existence at the same time.
Either way, that's just one more reason why this door is best left firmly closed.
Interesting, I believe we just stumbled on the best (most spiteful and mean spirited) way for a DM to deal with a troublesome summoner that can't get it through his head that a huge monster with 18 tentacle attack 2 claws and a bite may slow things down and annoy the other players.
A banishment and gate effectively neuters a summoner.
Interesting, I believe we just stumbled on the best (most spiteful and mean spirited) way for a DM to deal with a troublesome summoner that can't get it through his head that a huge monster with 18 tentacle attack 2 claws and a bite may slow things down and annoy the other players.
A banishment and gate effectively neuters a summoner.
Are we talking about 5ft hallways?
Are we talking about 5ft hallways?Interesting, I believe we just stumbled on the best (most spiteful and mean spirited) way for a DM to deal with a troublesome summoner that can't get it through his head that a huge monster with 18 tentacle attack 2 claws and a bite may slow things down and annoy the other players.
A banishment and gate effectively neuters a summoner.
5ft would take care of huge, but I have fun entertaining the notion of a serpentine large eidolon with 4 tentacles (tounges), energy attack (acid), improved damage (bite), pull (tentacle), reach attack (tentacle), grab (bite) Swallow whole, large size. Maybe throw in poison for good measure but it would be a great eidolon for a level 10 character.
Would be perfect for 5 ft hallways, you could call it "The Cleaner"
That -4 to attack and AC would be kind of mean though.
Hmm
If the BBEP (Big Bad Evil Person) is able to learn the true name of the player's summoner and able to somehow get a Gate spell cast then this is a very interesting line.
I see Karma in the player's future.
I see the BBEP gating in the Eidolon and offering some sort of deal of freedom. A simple trade relationship of doing work for the BBEP from possible surveilance on the summoner to running some destruction errands.
There will likely be promises of aid to the Eidolon in destroying the summoner and freeing the Eidolon from the constant summons to the Prime Material plane.
The more abusive the summoner has been towards their Eidolon then the more it should be willing to help out and possibly even help in attacking the summoner's party during a big show down battle between the summoner's group and the BBEP.