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I wrote down a homebrew set of rules to replace the "Big Six" magic items with innate abilities of a character.
In addition to the Big Six (1. Magic Weapon or Amulet of Mighty Fists, 2. Magic Armor or Bracers of Armor, 3. Cloak of Resistance, 4. Ring of Protection,
5. Amulet of Natural Armor and 6. stat boosters in the form of various Girdles and Headbands) I also included the Mantle of Spell Resistance and the various skill boosters to be replaced by these homebrew rules.
These rules are based on reducing the wealth progression by a certain factor (DM's choice between ¼, ½ or ¾) by reducing the value of all treasure found (including magic items) accordingly. In parallel, there is a point-buy-system for new Heroic Qualities. The cost of each Heroic Quality is determined according to the Magic Item Creation rules, divided by 1,000 and rounded. The Heroism Points used to buy the Heroic Qualities are equivalent to 1,000 GP each.
The intention behind these homebrew rules is to stay as near to the core rules as possible, so that no rebalancing of monsters etc. is necessary.
Please tell me how you like this approach, or if you see any problems / exploits. (I hope the tables are somewhat readable, these boards are really limited concerning tables. You can copy the tables and paste them into a simple text editor like notepad, the columns should align better that way)
• A DM can use a wealth progression of ¼, ½ or ¾. All treasure values are multiplied with this factor(reduced).
• When a character reaches a new level, he gains an amount of Heroism Points as shown in Table 1. He may then immediately purchase Heroic Qualities shown on Table 2. The DM decides which Heroic Qualities are available in his game.
• The following Heroic Qualities may be available:
Giant Strength (Ex) - Enhancement Bonus to Strength
Mighty Constitution (Ex) - Enhancement Bonus to Constitution
Incredible Dexterity (Ex) - Enhancement Bonus to Dexterity
Vast Intelligence (Ex) - Enhancement Bonus to Intelligence
Inspired Wisdom (Ex) - Enhancement Bonus to Wisdom
Alluring Charisma (Ex) - Enhancement Bonus to Charisma
Extraordinary Resistance (Ex) - Resistance Bonus to Saves
Difficult Target (Ex) - Deflection Bonus to AC
Thick Hide (Ex) - Natural Armor Bonus to AC
Though Bones (Ex) - Armor Bonus to AC
Spell Resistance (Ex) - Spell Resistance
Awesome Skill (skill) - Enhancement Bonus to Skill
Mighty Fists (Ex) - Enhancement Bonus to Attack and Damage with unarmed attacks
Powerful Attacks (Ex) - Enhancement Bonus to Attack and Damage with all attacks
• In Table 2, Heroic Qualities for which no equivalent magic item exists in the core rules are marked with "*". If a DM wants to stay as close to the core rules as possible, he should rule that those Heroic Qualities are not available.
• Rules for stacking bonuses apply normally to bonuses granted by Heroic Qualities.
• Heroism Points do not have to be spent when a new level is reached. Heroism Points may be saved to be spent upon reaching a higher level.
• A character can pay the difference between Heroic Qualities of the same kind to gain the better Heroic Quality. For example, if a character has Giant Strength to give him a +1 enhancement bonus to strength, he can spend 6 upgrade points to make that a +2 bonus.
• If the Though Bones Heroic Quality is available, its bonus up to +5 does stack with the bonus of armor worn. This is an exception to the normal stacking rules. Also, armor may be enchanted with special properties without having at least a +1 bonus, and may not have a plain bonus itself. It still has to be masterwork.
• A DM may remove the magic items which are equivalent to the available Heroic Qualities from the game.
• Because Heroic Qualities do not take up spaces on a character’s body, they cost double compared to an equivalent magic item. This also takes into account that Heroic Qualities cannot be stolen, sundered, dispelled, disjuncted, or suppressed by antimagic effects like magic items can. If a DM wants to remove non-consumable, non-weapon magic items entirely from his game, he should consider halving the Heroic Quality prices given in Table 2, as there are no magic items competing for the spaces on the body then.
• There is no Heroic Quality equivalent to magic weapons. If a DM wants to remove magic weapons with plain bonuses from his game, he should consider applying the bonuses of the Mighty Fists Heroic Quality to all weapon attacks and renaming it to Powerful Attacks. In this case, he should also rule that a weapon can be enchanted with special properties without having at least a +1 bonus, and may not have a plain bonus itself. It still has to be masterwork.
___________________________________________________________________________ ____
________¼ WEALTH________________½ WEALTH________________¾ WEALTH_______________
________HEROISM_HEROISM_________HEROISM_HEROSIM_________HEROSIM_HEROISM____ ____
________POINTS__POINTS__________POINTS__POINTS__________POINTS__POINTS_____ ____
LEVEL___TOTAL___GAINED__WEALTH__TOTAL___GAINED__WEALTH__TOTAL___GAINED__WEA LTH_
___________________________________________________________________________ ____
1_______0_______0_______0_______0_______0_______0_______0_______0_______0__ ____
2_______0_______0_______250_____0_______0_______500_____0_______0_______750 ____
3_______2_______2_______750_____1_______1_______1,500___0_______0_______2,2 50__
4_______4_______2_______1,500___3_______2_______3,000___1_______1_______4,5 00__
5_______7_______3_______2,625___5_______3_______5,250___2_______1_______7,8 75__
6_______12______5_______4,000___8_______3_______8,000___4_______2_______12, 000_
7_______17______5_______5,875___11______3_______11,750__5_______3_______17, 625_
8_______24______7_______8,250___16______5_______16,500__8_______3_______24, 750_
9_______34______10______11,500__23______7_______23,000__11______3_______34, 500_
10______46______12______15,500__31______8_______31,000__15______4_______46, 500_
11______61______15______20,500__41______10______41,000__20______5_______61, 500_
12______81______20______27,000__54______13______54,000__27______7_______81, 000_
13______105_____24______35,000__70______16______70,000__35______8_______105 ,000
14______138_____33______46,250__92______22______92,500__46______11______138 ,750
15______180_____42______60,000__120_____28______120,000_60______14______180 ,000
16______236_____56______78,750__157_____37______157,500_78______18______236 ,250
17______307_____71______102,500_205_____48______205,000_102_____24______307 ,500
18______397_____90______132,500_265_____60______265,000_132_____30______397 ,500
19______513_____116_____171,250_342_____77______342,500_171_____39______513 ,750
20______660_____147_____220,000_440_____98______440,000_220_____49______660 ,000
___________________________________________________________________________ ____
___________________________________________________________________________ ____
________ENHAN-__RESIS-__DEFLEC-_NATURAL_ARMOR___COMPE-__SPELL___ENHANCEMENT ____
________CEMENT__TANCE___TION____ARMOR___BONUS___TENCE___RESIS-__BONUS TO ATTACK
________BONUS___BONUS___BONUS___BONUS___TO______BONUS___TANCE___AND DAMAGE_____
________TO______TO______TO______TO______AC______TO______________WITH(UNARME D)__
BONUS___ABILITY_SAVES___AC______AC______________SKILL___________ATTACKS____ ____
___________________________________________________________________________ ____
+1______2*______2_______4_______4_______2+______-_______-_______10_________ ____
+2______8_______8_______16______16______8+______1*______-_______40_________ ____
+3______18*_____18______36______36______18+_____2*______-_______90_________ ____
+4______32______32______64______64______32+_____4*______-_______160________ ____
+5______50*_____50______100_____100_____50+_____6_______-_______250________ ____
+6______72______72______144*____144*____72______8*______-_______-__________ ____
+7______98*_____98*_____196*____196*____98______10*_____-_______-__________ ____
+8______128*____128*____256*____256*____128_____14*_____-_______-__________ ____
+9______162*____162*____324*____324*____162*____18*_____-_______-__________ ____
+10_____200*____200*____400*____400*____200*____20______-_______-__________ ____
+11_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______26*_____-_______-__________ ____
+12_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______30*_____-_______-__________ ____
+13_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______34*_____20______-__________ ____
+14_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______40*_____40*_____-__________ ____
+15_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______46______60______-__________ ____
+16_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______52*_____80*_____-__________ ____
+17_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______58*_____100_____-__________ ____
+18_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______66*_____120*____-__________ ____
+19_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______74*_____140_____-__________ ____
+20_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______80*_____160*____-__________ ____
+21_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______90*_____180_____-__________ ____
+22_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______98*_____200*____-__________ ____
+23_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______106*____220*____-__________ ____
+24_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______116*____240*____-__________ ____
+25_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______126*____260*____-__________ ____
+26_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______138*____280*____-__________ ____
+27_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______146*____300*____-__________ ____
+28_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______158*____320*____-__________ ____
+29_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______170*____340*____-__________ ____
+30_____-_______-_______-_______-_______-_______180*____360*____-__________ ____
___________________________________________________________________________ ____
* this bonus is not available via core magic items
+ this bonus does stack with Armor Bonus of armor worn
___________________________________________________________________________ ____
I see you decided to give your chart more light by making it's own thread!
I have a question. Your ninth bullet point mentions that Heroic Qualities "cost twice as much". They cost twice as much what? Money? Hero Points? I thought that this chart was specifically FOR buying Heroic Qualities. Why would I double the cost just to use it as intended? Obviously, I'm confused as to how it's intended. Hmmm.
He priced the qualities as if they were slotless to determine how much wealth they use up. In other words, the number of Heroic Points you have equates to slotless magic items in wealth used up (see the remaining wealth on table 1, that's how much money they have left over after heroic points).
So a person not using heroic points would have more magic items, with more bonus, but it would be stuff that can be stolen, broken, or "turned off" with anti-magic/dispel.
.
My comments.
I like it! Since it keeps things so close to core rules, it'd be easy to apply it to any normal game, such as adventure paths or published campaign settings.
If I don't play E6 for my next game, I think I'll give this system a try.
I have a question. Your ninth bullet point mentions that Heroic Qualities "cost twice as much". They cost twice as much what? Money? Hero Points? I thought that this chart was specifically FOR buying Heroic Qualities. Why would I double the cost just to use it as intended? Obviously, I'm confused as to how it's intended. Hmmm.
Kaisoku's answer is exactly right.
It's a slippery slope though. Move the toys into character progression and DMs and Players will still want toys.
Some characters are different and memorable by what they don't have.
Sigurd
It's a slippery slope though. Move the toys into character progression and DMs and Players will still want toys.
Some characters are different and memorable by what they don't have.
Maybe Zen should have linked to my other threads or at least recapped some of my sentiments about WHY you should get rid of "mandatory" magic items from the game.
Sigurd, it has nothing to do with trying to take away "toys". It's about creating a smoother, more immersible setting.
This Thread Discusses Why we want to remove the so-called "key" items from our games.
This Thread discusses implementing these ideas in a practical manner.
There are a lot of posts to read, which is probably why Zen79 started a new one to highlight his own idea, but if you search for my own posts "LordGriffin", I make most of the relevant points. (I don't come up with any solutions, though).
Maybe Zen should have linked to my other threads or at least recapped some of my sentiments about WHY you should get rid of "mandatory" magic items from the game.
Yes, I should have linked to LordGriffins thread; there you can find the background why one would want to remove the "standard" magic items (but not necessarily the "toys", i.e. unique and special magic items).
This thread is only concerned with one possible way to realize this goal; it was not my intention to divert the general discussion from the original thread.
This thread is only concerned with one possible way to realize this goal; it was not my intention to divert the general discussion from the original thread.
No, I never thought it was! I was actually hoping that somebody would make an offshoot thread to discuss other options in more detail. I believe I've been a chief proponent of your hero system, in fact.
I just wanted newcomers to know why we're discussing this. As you well know, I REALLY don't like necessary magic items. The more people we convince of their evils, the better we can help make the game, methinks.
It's a slippery slope though. Move the toys into character progression and DMs and Players will still want toys.
Some characters are different and memorable by what they don't have.
Sigurd
Depending on a groups style of play, one could chose a wealth progression of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 or 1 (=RAW).
The rest of the wealth is given out normally as Magic Items, Coins, ..., so "toys" would also be available.
The goal of these homebrew rules is to replace the boring "+x to something" items, which are nonetheless necessary for the assumed power balance between characters and monsters and other challenges with Heroic Abilities.
The numbers stay the same, but the fluff and the "feel" of the game change.
As always, YMMV.
Yeah, the reason I'd use this would be so that the magic items people are getting would be more "toys" than just "pluses".
Like a cloak of batwings instead of resistance. Or headband of detect thoughts... or belt of gender changing.. wait...
Great thread - great ideas! Thanks for posting!
tfad
Yeah, the reason I'd use this would be so that the magic items people are getting would be more "toys" than just "pluses".
Like a cloak of batwings instead of resistance. Or headband of detect thoughts... or belt of gender changing.. wait...
LOL
I think my approach would be easy to integrate into pre-made campaigns.
The main work would be to "scale down" treasures, i.e. removing "pluses" item and re-calculating magic armor / weapons to not have plain bonuses.
Conversion of NPCs would be easy, you would just throw away all the "pluses" items while keeping the stats as written.
This thread is only concerned with one possible way to realize this goal; it was not my intention to divert the general discussion from the original thread.
No, I never thought it was! I was actually hoping that somebody would make an offshoot thread to discuss other options in more detail. I believe I've been a chief proponent of your hero system, in fact.
I just wanted newcomers to know why we're discussing this. As you well know, I REALLY don't like necessary magic items. The more people we convince of their evils, the better we can help make the game, methinks.
I actually completely agree with the sentiment regarding magical items,
it robs the game of much of it's flavour (to me).It would be much better to get the game balanced without it and then let the DM decide how to handle the magic items in their game,
as it is now players might drag the DM before the high council with the Rulebook in hand claiming they have been maltreated and underpaid for their efforts.
It would be much better to get the game balanced without it and then let the DM decide how to handle the magic items in their game,
as it is now players might drag the DM before the high council with the Rulebook in hand claiming they have been maltreated and underpaid for their efforts.
In the last campaign I played, we took turns DMing. At the start of every adventure, we added up the prices of the magic items each character had to see whether we were below the expected power level or not...
I know this is thread necromancy and all that, but I'm seriously considering using this in my next game. Any thought from anyone about the effectiveness of the charts as presented?