For me at least, the probelm here is that by what 7th level, you can do nothing that any other character can't do (none of those feats actually grant any new options except Power Attack in a very limited sense). 3/4 of what you have can be gotten by simple taking 1 level of Fighter (and gets you even more (heavy armor, Tower shield)), and Divine Power isn't that great any more.Both Power Attack (I think) and Weapon Focus now require a BaB of +1, so no go.Ok. Let's get crazy here.
human combat casting
1 toughness
3 Power attack
5 Weapon focus Greatsword
7 you get divine power and win.
I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. I was responding to a post stating there are no feats for a combat cleric. what "options" are your other characters getting from feats? Unless you're taking things like selective channel, I'm guessing they're going to be right on par with what I've suggested here. And for the record, 3/4 of what the level 7 cleric gets can not be gotten by taking 1 level of fighter, unless you are referring to the feat selections in which case you are close to right, a level 3 fighter has as many feats as a level 7 cleric of the same race. The fighter does not however get full spellcasting, the ability to heal spontaneously, to turn undead, and has different skill options than the cleric. These things are really what makes the cleric. The cleric is first and foremost a spellcasting class. It just happens to be good at hitting things in the face also.
edit: in reference to divine power not being good anymore, with melee it's probably worse than it used to be, with ranged weapons and probably 1 handed weapons used with shields I would dare say it is better than before. The cleric archer never looked better to me from a bookkeeping sense. One mighty bow and a luck bonus to damage instead of your strength changing when you cast divine power.
Basically, if you want to play a battle cleric, you're going to have some problems ahead of you.
But, thanks to the APG, you can just play the spontaneous casting battle oracle and wear full plate and cast divine favor and divine power like 7 times a day! yeah!
eh really not seeing how one feat to wear heavy armor is an issue for ya. But no your not god of everything ya was in 3.5, which is a good thing. But your still pretty damned good.
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I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. I was responding to a post stating there are no feats for a combat cleric. what "options" are your other characters getting from feats? Unless you're taking things like selective channel, I'm guessing they're going to be right on par with what I've suggested here. And for the record, 3/4 of what the level 7 cleric gets can not be gotten by taking 1 level of fighter, unless you are referring to the feat selections in which case you are close to right, a level 3 fighter has as many feats as a level 7 cleric of the same race. The fighter does not however get full spellcasting, the ability to heal spontaneously, to turn undead, and has different skill options than the cleric. These things are really what makes the cleric. The cleric is first and foremost a spellcasting class. It just happens to be good at hitting things in the face also.For me at least, the probelm here is that by what 7th level, you can do nothing that any other character can't do (none of those feats actually grant any new options except Power Attack in a very limited sense). 3/4 of what you have can be gotten by simple taking 1 level of Fighter (and gets you even more (heavy armor, Tower shield)), and Divine Power isn't that great any more.Both Power Attack (I think) and Weapon Focus now require a BaB of +1, so no go.Ok. Let's get crazy here.
human combat casting
1 toughness
3 Power attack
5 Weapon focus Greatsword
7 you get divine power and win.
I'm just saying that 1 level of Fighter can get you Power Attack, Weapon Focus, and basically Toughness (from the Fighters HD), plus other things like armor and shield Proficiency, all Martial Weapons, and BaB, but a Cleric should not have to multiclass to build the concept they want. I think you also forgot that Pathfinder changed feat progression, but that doesn't matter much in the Cleric's case.
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No, I don't. I don't think they should be as excluded from either Feats (especially Feat Trees) or conceptual builds as they are, (without multiclassing.)
Honestly, with PF Clerics, your build come down to one of two things. Positive or Negative Energy. Domains are generic, practically every Cleric uses the same spells, but Domains spells are 1/day. Your looking at 10th level or so before your Feats start setting you apart (by which time they are uderpowered often). I'm not being literal, but that is sure what it feels like every time I try to make a Cleric vs any other character. Just my opinion.
How is the cleric more limited in either Feats or conceptual builds then any other class? The fighter will always be king of feats, kinda his thing, he also should have feats others can not gain. Again that's his whole thing.
Just whats are you wanting you can not pull off you could in 3.5? The cleric is the same , except lose of heavy armor and you gain more feats no so replacing it before you can afford it is not a huge drawlback.
I am just not seeing this every cleric is cookie cutter you are. Sure if ya wanna spam channels ya need to invest the feats, but I have seen a good number who invested nothing in the channels and just built what they wanted to play.
I am not seeing what you could build from 3.5 core you could not build now.
The cleric is weak, and shows poorly against the fighter?
...
Now I've seen everything.
No, I don't. I don't think they should be as excluded from either Feats (especially Feat Trees) or conceptual builds as they are, (without multiclassing.)
Honestly, with PF Clerics, your build come down to one of two things. Positive or Negative Energy. Domains are generic, practically every Cleric uses the same spells, but Domains spells are 1/day. Your looking at 10th level or so before your Feats start setting you apart (by which time they are uderpowered often). I'm not being literal, but that is sure what it feels like every time I try to make a Cleric vs any other character. Just my opinion.
You are not being nearly creative enough.
battle cleric: power attack, greatsword, divine power, righteous mightHealbot: extra channeling high charisma, item creation
Artillery cleric: heightened sanctuary, spiritual weapons... lots of spiritual weapons
You can play the class dozens of ways before figuring in domains. You are only looking at a statblock and making a conclusion. There are literally hundreds of options for this class in the core material only.