RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Someone on this board once said that there was an even split between the Conservative and Liberal voices on this board. I say BS.
Whatever happened to the Liberal voices here? Where is the Obamalove?
I'm a liberal, but I've grown bored of the political arguments on these boards. There are several people who I enjoy talking politics with -- David Fryer, for example -- but half of the political threads I follow turn ridiculous. Also, given the amount of hateful, conservative-baiting, trash I've seen from people who call themselves liberals on this board, I'm not sure how high I'd like to raise my liberal flag.
I'd probably raise my liberal flag higher if I was confident that the people whose ideals are most like mine wouldn't come along in a few posts and prove to be a bloody embarrassment to the beliefs they claim to hold.
I'd probably raise my liberal flag higher if I was confident that the people whose ideals are most like mine wouldn't come along in a few posts and prove to be a bloody embarrassment to the beliefs they claim to hold.
You embarass me, you hoser.
:P
*Sigh* never any Libertarian love.....just liberals and conservatives....
Yeah what about us Libertarians? It's always Conservatives, Liberals, Conservatives, Liberals, (says in the whining Jan Brady voice).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I'd probably raise my liberal flag higher if I was confident that the people whose ideals are most like mine wouldn't come along in a few posts and prove to be a bloody embarrassment to the beliefs they claim to hold.You embarass me, you hoser.
:P
Why? Because I can spell embarrass? :P
I don't miss liberal gamers, I lead them less...
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Let me clarify,
The debate was at the time 'we need a gay X-man' Various topics were bandied about, including making Beast (who's always been a lady's man) gay. The final decision was to add Northstar to the team.
Now I've loved Northstar since Alpha Flight, and really wish Marvel would have had the testicular fortitude to kill him from AIDS back in the 80's rather than the cop out they made. The fear they protrayed when he confided to his sister that he wasn't healing shook my teenaged self.
[spolier]"Let's take the subtly gay character and explain it wasn't AIDS, it was that he was half faerie!"[/spoiler]
to me it's a cop out when they use sex to define a character. Wanting Northstar as the 'gay mutant' is as annoying as Sunspots hitting on anything that moves and Dr Light being 'Dr Rape' after Identiy Crisis.
*Takes a deep breath* that said, I like what I've seen of Anole and the couple in Young Avengers. I don't mind seeing characters actually have relationships, but to make a character gay (or straight) for publicity annoys me.
That said I'm REALLY Pissed at how they've taken Wolvesbane.
I was a liberal once.
I was a liberal once.
Nope; I met Joe in 1989, and he was more conservative than Bush Sr. even back then.
Gotta love Obama. Anyone who can dupe the Nobel Committee into giving them a Nobel Peace Prize for campaigning is pretty amazing. CHA definately isn't is dump stat...he's got Hitler levels of it.
Please, no Hitler. Just leave that reference out of whatever point you're making. It's completely out of perspective. The Holocaust shouldn't be invoked for anything so trivial.
Note, I'm not even posting in opposition to what you wrote, not that I agree with it, but because of the seriousness of the point I'm trying to make. Invoking WWII, mass murder, and genocide on that scale because you don't like the current President is really inappropriate.
I'm independent leaning liberal. I agree with some conservative ideas, just not most.
Let me clarify,
The debate was at the time 'we need a gay X-man' Various topics were bandied about, including making Beast (who's always been a lady's man) gay. The final decision was to add Northstar to the team.
Now I've loved Northstar since Alpha Flight, and really wish Marvel would have had the testicular fortitude to kill him from AIDS back in the 80's rather than the cop out they made. The fear they protrayed when he confided to his sister that he wasn't healing shook my teenaged self.
[spolier]"Let's take the subtly gay character and explain it wasn't AIDS, it was that he was half faerie!"[/spoiler]
Wow, that was something I missed because I was too young at the time. Thanks for the heads up on this.
That said I'm REALLY Pissed at how they've taken Wolvesbane.
I hae outlawed all contrary opinions. Please cease this fighting immediately or I shall be force to take drastic action.
My current group is one liberal (who is developing Libertarian leanings), a conservative (also developing Libertarian leanings), and 4 Libertarians.
Personal freedom, personal choice.... as the Constitution states (paraphrased - don't have a copy on me), any rights not specifically spelled out within as reserved for the states or the federal government shall rest with the individual. A principle that has not just been forgotten, it has been actively run over, shot, stabbed, hung, drowned, and poisoned.
Conservatives drive me crazy for their tendencies to restrict what women can do with their own bodies, what personal freedoms its ok to violate in the name of a little security, and what can or can't be taught in our schools.
Liberals drive me crazy for their tendencies to give away money to those who aren't willing to earn it themselves, to protect the minority (be it ethnic, religious, or creed) at the expense of the majority, and what can or can't be taught in our schools.
Still, I'm a realist and know that short of bloody revolution or a complete breakdown in our society, no 3rd party candidate will ever be President (at least, not in my lifetime). So every four to eight years, I alternate which of the big two parties I vote for. The rationale for this is that each party is screwing up our country, but at least they do it in opposite directions so hopefully we'll remain at least a little steady. (Bush, though... wooo - gonna take a while to fix that cluster)
I'm seeing more and more people identifying as Libertarians by the day. After the last 8 years of Bush, it was to be expected, but this past year under Obama seems to have put even more people on notice that they are in for more of the same with regards to the amount of legislation that will be interfering with their daily lives.
If the actual Libertarian "party" can harness this trend, they might possibly develop into a group with a small bit of clout. Unlikely, given how unorganized the group is as a whole, but possible.
It would certainly be nice to see.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Wolvesbane
What would I like to have seen? Her in the New Mutants or with X-factor, I liked her under Peter David's pen, and if she was in the New Mutants they could have played with the Dani/Rahne relationship and actually build some contrast between Rahne being more powerful and Dani not.
Northstar
Dani, Barbara and other 'WIA' characters
Same thing for Danielle Moonstar. Hmm, Dani wants to work in the field, but has no powers. Wow, if only there was a mutant who could build a battle suit for her... Nah, we'll just let her go out without any gadgets. Way to lead Sam!
please take that as a joke it was meant to be.
No! You go to Hell! You go to Hell and you die!
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I think it is funny that, on an RPG forum, using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma score is somehow seen as automatically invoking the Holocaust. Seriously, if that is the belief, stop playing D&D. I doubt Gygax, when using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma (DMG 1e), was invoking the Holocaust.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I think it is funny that, on an RPG forum, using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma score is somehow seen as automatically invoking the Holocaust. Seriously, if that is the belief, stop playing D&D. I doubt Gygax, when using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma (DMG 1e), was invoking the Holocaust.
What's funnier was my first thought was
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I think it is funny that, on an RPG forum, using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma score is somehow seen as automatically invoking the Holocaust. Seriously, if that is the belief, stop playing D&D. I doubt Gygax, when using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma (DMG 1e), was invoking the Holocaust.What's funnier was my first thought was
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah, take him away from the panels and he's about on Bush's level as an orator. Well, except Bush didn't say "ummmmm" nearly as often, just butchered the pronunciation of a bunch of s@+$.
Yeah, take him away from the panels and he's about on Bush's level as an orator. Well, except Bush didn't say "ummmmm" nearly as often, just butchered the pronunciation of a bunch of s&@%.I think it is funny that, on an RPG forum, using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma score is somehow seen as automatically invoking the Holocaust. Seriously, if that is the belief, stop playing D&D. I doubt Gygax, when using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma (DMG 1e), was invoking the Holocaust.What's funnier was my first thought was
** spoiler omitted **
How dare you! You people are nuts. Everyone knows those are doctored videos of him stammering, put out there by the right wing bigoted media to make him look bad... HOPE... CHANGE! :P
P.S.
I think it is funny that, on an RPG forum, using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma score is somehow seen as automatically invoking the Holocaust. Seriously, if that is the belief, stop playing D&D. I doubt Gygax, when using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma (DMG 1e), was invoking the Holocaust.
One thing I tend to notice with those who call you out for mentioning Hitler as a sign your wrong are those doing so are not doing so because of how wrong you are, but because it is a lazy way to counter an arguement.
I would say I think that the noble prize has become more or less a joke. Nothing more then a political tool for the left, I honestly think the reward money should count as campaign contribution. After all if it doesn't couldn't any political group create an equally meaningless award with a huge monitary prize and then award it to which ever canidate it wanted to? This would also serve to mark them clearly as a politcal action group which is all the noble commitee is.
I think it is funny that, on an RPG forum, using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma score is somehow seen as automatically invoking the Holocaust. Seriously, if that is the belief, stop playing D&D. I doubt Gygax, when using Hitler as an example of someone with a high charisma (DMG 1e), was invoking the Holocaust.
Emphasis mine.
I'm responding to this as if you quoted me directly, as it seems reasonable that your post is in direct response to mine.
Speaking seriously, the poster wasn't talking about RPGs, and this thread is not about RPGs. I give you the benefit of the doubt of being a smart guy; so I reckon you know that. I don't refute what you say about Gygax for a second, but it's irrelevant because the entire context is utterly different. I certainly didn't refute that Hitler was charismatic, that's a given. So I take no objection to what Gygax wrote. What I take objection to is people casually likening *anybody* they don't like (not just Obama) to the most hated and feared man in the last century. The same would apply if someone likened a conservative politician to Hitler. It would still be every bit as inappropriate.
Again, if you want to use Hitler to help define Charisma, it can't be denied. However, that post was not about defining charisma. It was about associating the President with a mass murderer and a war criminal.
Now, the worst I said was that it was inappropriate. I stand by that. I didn't call the poster any names. I didn't say that they had no call to dislike Obama. I made no personal attacks against the poster. Instead, I made a request that we don't trivialize Hitler and WWII. Yeah, I was pretty firm, but I showed basic respect.
Now in my book, that wasn't unreasonable.
If you want to see it or portray it differently, I can't stop you. If you don't see it as a big deal and you want to compare Hitler to whoever, there's nothing I can do about it. Nevertheless, I think it's lame and I'm not sorry or embarrassed that I asked for it to stop. What you do is on you.
One thing I tend to notice with those who call you out for mentioning Hitler as a sign your wrong are those doing so are not doing so because of how wrong you are, but because it is a lazy way to counter an arguement.
Well.. I do think it does trivialize one of the worst events in modern history. A lot of people died, not just Jewish people. Lives were ruined and families torn apart. Suffering on an unimaginable scale. It has nothing to do with Obama or how well he's done as a President.
But yeah.. it is lazy. Invoking an icon image like Hitler to draw a negative association is just an easy lame way to debate the merits (or lack thereof) of the individual.
I miss liberal gamers...
I think I need to check my sights.
;)
The Nobel prize is a foundation created by a single wealthy individual to ensure that the vast wealth he accrued in life would go to works that he approved of after he passed on.
It is exactly the kind of thing that conservatives hope to enable by eliminating the estate tax.
Just sayin'.
Watcher,
I'd have chosen someone else myself, or just said '18 charisma' (if I thought he had that)
Does give an interesting question though, who's a good example of a 'nice' person with an 18 CHA?
Mother Teresa? (sp?)
She didn't just do good works but she inspired people.
MLK? Gandhi?
Each both preached and practiced peaceful actions and inspired millions.
MLK? Gandhi?
Each both preached and practiced peaceful actions and inspired millions.
An adulterer and a wife-beater. Winston Churchill was a pig too.
I'm just adding a footnote here. I'm not trying to convert anybody to my way of thinking. I'm not trying to preach. I'm just saying use some perspective when drawing comparisons.
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MLK? Gandhi?
Each both preached and practiced peaceful actions and inspired millions.
An adulterer and a wife-beater. Winston Churchill was a pig too.
I'm just adding a footnote here. I'm not trying to convert anybody to my way of thinking. I'm not trying to preach. I'm just saying use some perspective when drawing comparisons.
WOW just WOW... I think it is time we just nix political debates all together.
Watcher's point is a useful reminder than the world doesn't neatly divide into "good guys" and "bad guys" who are all 100% one or the other. ALL humans have flaws, and most have at least one good point (although it can admittedly be really hard to find in some people).
MLK? Gandhi?
Each both preached and practiced peaceful actions and inspired millions.
An adulterer and a wife-beater. Winston Churchill was a pig too.
I'm just adding a footnote here. I'm not trying to convert anybody to my way of thinking. I'm not trying to preach. I'm just saying use some perspective when drawing comparisons.
It's sad to admit that it's true about those mentioned despite what they're publicly known for. I guess just about everyone with their high aspirations have their serious character flaws which defines them and humbles them down a notch.
WOW just WOW... I think it is time we just nix political debates all together.
Sorry for the shock.
I just sat here, still kinda steamed, thinking that just because I said ease up on the WWII comparisons that I would be branded as some hippie liberal. I sort of lashed out, but not dishonestly.
I don't know what a liberal is really. I think of myself as having common sense, but people are free to disagree.
MLK was not a perfect man.
Neither was Ghandi.
Neither was Churchill.
They were all great leaders. They accomplished great things. They were also very human.
I'm not exactly sure what my point was, but I think we can do better than just trying to draw comparisons to iconic figures. They're always different people who lived in different times and different contexts.
It's sad to admit that it's true about those mentioned despite what they're publicly known for. I guess just about everyone with their high aspirations have their serious character flaws which defines them and humbles them down a notch.MLK? Gandhi?
Each both preached and practiced peaceful actions and inspired millions.
An adulterer and a wife-beater. Winston Churchill was a pig too.
I'm just adding a footnote here. I'm not trying to convert anybody to my way of thinking. I'm not trying to preach. I'm just saying use some perspective when drawing comparisons.
That's true, I once stole snickers. :P
WOW just WOW... I think it is time we just nix political debates all together.Sorry for the shock.
I just sat here, still kinda steamed, thinking that just because I said ease up on the WWII comparisons that I would be branded as some hippie liberal. I sort of lashed out, but not dishonestly.
I don't know what a liberal is really. I think of myself as having common sense, but people are free to disagree.
MLK was not a perfect man.
Neither was Ghandi.
Neither was Churchill.They were all great leaders. They accomplished great things. They were also very human.
I'm not exactly sure what my point was, but I think we can do better than just trying to draw comparisons to iconic figures. They're always different people who lived in different times and different contexts.
*peeps cautiously around the corner*
Mother Teresa?
*meep*
*peeps cautiously around the corner*
Mother Teresa?
*meep*
Sure. :D
We'll wave her on through. No objection.
Mother Theresa was a scary, scary woman. She spent her her time in the Home for the Dying not to help cure anyone or make them feel better in the least, but to be closer to their suffering and therefore the suffering of Christ. The "patients" there were routinely maltreated, and forbidden to leave or meet with their families.
I have seen this in interviews with her directly (albeit translated) and the stories told by a former follower.
She's often presented as an embodiment of saintly Christendom, but I like to think that Christ would probably have tried to help people, not let them suffer because it made her more holy to be with them.
Oh yeah, and she raised money for brutal dictatorships. Sorry my friend, all human beings have a dark side. You can be sure that if someone is famous for being a great person, they have a darker side than you even thought possible.
*My knowledge of this comes primarily from an episode of Penn & Teller's BullS**t, BTW — not the most trustworthy source, but the interviews at least could be believed. Oh, right, and a Chris Hitchens book. I don't particularly like him either, but the research is there.
*peeps cautiously around the corner*
Mother Teresa?
*meep*
Sure. :D
We'll wave her on through. No objection.
I have objections, she was just as flawed as the others mentioned above. Don't know if I'd even call her charismatic either.
But hey, I'm just a godless, socialist, liberal European gamer... oh wait, that was what dmchucky69 was looking for. ;-)
EDIT: Damn, ninja'ed by the tophat wearing evil guy
Sorry Mother T, I guess you're on your own.
Isn't gaming Satanic? That alone should make D&D a primarily Democratic pursuit.
Well, even Ann Coulter says D&D is a harmless pastime, so I don't see how that would affect the political landscape too much. There is a good bit of a difference between conservatism and fundamentalism.
Screw you conservatives and liberals, where's the radical love? Anarchists, socialists, and commies unite!
Okay, not the commies.
Screw you conservatives and liberals, where's the radical love? Anarchists, socialists, and commies unite!
*raises hand*
Social Democrat here, strong left-libertarian leanings. The American Democratic Party's dominant faction (Obama emphatically included) is quite close to being far right from where I sit.
Couldn't get behind communism, though. Too much violence and acceptance of authoritarianism (Even just in plain old Marx. Class revolution and dictatorship of the proletariat? Yeah, right.) even had it been right about all the rest, and it wasn't.
I'm independent leaning liberal. I agree with some conservative ideas, just not most.
Then check out the Libertarian Party....
What if you're a conservative with liberal leanings?
You know... a Liberal Conservative?
Your a Libertarian...
I'm just gonna say that the vast majority of politicians are crooks and we need a revolution (preferably non-violent)!
Centrist here. The far right and far left are too batcrap-crazy for me.
The far... left are too batcrap-crazy for me.
Hear hear! Oh... oh wait. :-)
The word "libertarian" confuses me as well. I had thought it meant something like "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" (like me!). Instead, in Texas at least it seems to mean "fiscally anarchist, socially ultraconservative."