Doctor Who: The End of Time


Television

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What if it was Donna AND his mother? Remember that Paul McGann's Doctor had said his mother was Human. This would be a way to make that statement true.

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Vanulf Wulfson wrote:
What if it was Donna AND his mother? Remember that Paul McGann's Doctor had said his mother was Human. This would be a way to make that statement true.

That is an interesting thought.

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Vic Wertz wrote:
There's also a brief shot of him holding a pistol...

Firing too if my memory serves me correctly...


(standard Who regeneration post 101)

in extended continuity (including the more official novels and the like) the 12 regenerations rule was an imposed one, not a rule of biology. after 12, the "law of diminishing returns" becamse apparent, and the time-lords tended to go insane.

even so, other rases who underwent regeneration (such as the minyans of mynos) used technology to extend way beyond 12

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Pat Payne wrote:
In the preview, he is seen punching out one guy and later on smashing a Dalek with a mallet (being the second person after Ace to dare going up against a Dalek with a melee weapon :) )

Yeah, I saw that and I thought "Oh gods... Not another Dalek."

Personally I'd love it if:

Spoiler:
The Doctor had arrived on a movie set or something, a documentary about the Stolen Earth and just freaked out at seeing a Dalek and proceeded to beat the heck out of a very expencive movie prop.

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I'm sad I'll miss David Tennant he was my favorite Doctor thus far. Seriously I saw The End of Time and it was awesome.

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Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I'm sad I'll miss David Tennant he was my favorite Doctor thus far.

+1. I almost cried when he said "I don't want to go" just before he Regenerated.

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David Fryer wrote:
Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I'm sad I'll miss David Tennant he was my favorite Doctor thus far.
+1. I alsmost cried when he said "I don't want to go" just before he Regenerated.

My wife did cry. :(

I'm going to miss David, but I am excited for Matt!

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Mac Boyce wrote:


I'm going to miss David, but I am excited for Matt!

This ^^

Oh, and Mr Morris' spoiler above. That would be great.

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Yeah, but I think the Doctor is too bright to make that mistake.


Mac Boyce wrote:

My wife did cry. :(

I'm going to miss David, but I am excited for Matt!

So did mine. While I saw some flaws with End of Time, she did not. Thought it was brilliant and poignant.

We're also excited for Matt. Seeing a live action trailer eased my mind a little. The still photos were raising some concerns on my part, but the actually clip suggests that he'll be fine and I'll get used to him.

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The trailer, for those who haven't seen it.

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I thought this was a bit of a threadjack but since Donna is going away...

Catherine Tate and Daniel Craig in a very funny sketch.

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Loztastic wrote:

(standard Who regeneration post 101)

in extended continuity (including the more official novels and the like) the 12 regenerations rule was an imposed one, not a rule of biology. after 12, the "law of diminishing returns" becamse apparent, and the time-lords tended to go insane.

even so, other rases who underwent regeneration (such as the minyans of mynos) used technology to extend way beyond 12

Not to mention the Master managed to get himself a whole new set of regenerations after hijacking the body of the Consul of Traken.


For me, The Doctor will always be the Tenth Doctor, David Tennant. I thought that the 2nd half was excellent and I rather liked the "victory lap" - it shows you that at the end, instead of just being alone and moving on, he checked in on the people he loved and cared about. In his own way, he was saying goodbye without causing them grief.

I thought it was interesting that we finally see that the Time Lords weren't the wise saints that they were often represented as, but rather that was how The Doctor wanted them to be. He remembered what they should have been, not what they became.

There were some real tear-jerker scenes in there, especially with Wilf.


LazarX wrote:
Loztastic wrote:

(standard Who regeneration post 101)

in extended continuity (including the more official novels and the like) the 12 regenerations rule was an imposed one, not a rule of biology. after 12, the "law of diminishing returns" becamse apparent, and the time-lords tended to go insane.

even so, other rases who underwent regeneration (such as the minyans of mynos) used technology to extend way beyond 12

Not to mention the Master managed to get himself a whole new set of regenerations after hijacking the body of the Consul of Traken.

Or the fact that Omega showed us at least three versions of the doctor prior to Bill Hartnell's

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Vic Wertz wrote:

(I just wish I had BBC America in HD....)

I downloaded them from Itunes in HD..


DM Wellard wrote:
Or the fact that Omega showed us at least three versions of the doctor prior to Bill Hartnell's

Actually, you're thinking of Morbius, not Omega. In "the Three Doctors" (with Omega in it), the time lords refer to William Hartnell's doctor as the earliest Doctor. Later, in "the Five Doctors", the first Doctor calls himself, "The original, you might say."

This has led to a lot of fan debate about those faces seen in the battle between Morbius and the Doctor in "the Brain of Morbius". A popular fan theory is that they are faces of Morbius's various incarnations. However, the production crew of the time has stated that the intention was they were earlier incarnations of the Doctor. They have also said, though, that they were probably wrong to do that. So it remains a debated topic. :)

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LazarX wrote:
...Not to mention the Master managed to get himself a whole new set of regenerations after hijacking the body of the Consul of Traken.

Unless I missed something, I think that notion remains unconfirmed.


Vic Wertz wrote:
LazarX wrote:
...Not to mention the Master managed to get himself a whole new set of regenerations after hijacking the body of the Consul of Traken.
Unless I missed something, I think that notion remains unconfirmed.

In the BBC book The Quantum Archangel by Craig Hinton (a sixth Doctor adventure, 'set' between the TV shows The Trial of a Time Lord and Time and the Rani) it makes clear that The Master didn't start a new cycle of regenerations by stealing the body and power from The Source.

And I would recommend the book as a read; it also develops events which had played out in The Time Monster.

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How canical are the books nayway?

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David Fryer wrote:
How canical are the books nayway?

This is subject to change under the new guy, but I gather Russell's intent was to avoid either referencing *or* contradicting them as much as possible... with the exception of Paul Cornell's Human Nature, which was adapted for Series 3.


Dudes: if you've never been to The Whoniverse, I suggest you take a moment of your time to step in and have a look 'round. A good place to start is The Rules of History, which explains how the site attempts the epic task of collating and clarifying everything, prioritizing and establishing as canon the televised episodes and the audio plays and the novels and the comics.


Regarding the victory lap, in the scene with Donna that church was my family church when I grew up- so it was cool to see that!

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Vic Wertz wrote:

Australia (ABC):

TBA ("Early 2010")

Newly announced for Australia:

Part 1: 14 Feb
Part 2: 21 Feb.
7.30 PM on ABC1.


David Fryer wrote:
Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I'm sad I'll miss David Tennant he was my favorite Doctor thus far.
+1. I almost cried when he said "I don't want to go" just before he Regenerated.

Same here man, same here

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Vic Wertz wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:

Australia (ABC):

TBA ("Early 2010")

Newly announced for Australia:

Part 1: 14 Feb
Part 2: 21 Feb.
7.30 PM on ABC1.

Which is why I have already seen Part 1 and have had Part 2 for a few days. Those times are just Full of Fail.

It's killing me but I haven't had the time to watch it hopefully this weekend. :/


I didn't cry. It was a damn hard task, though.


I shed a few tears, I'll admit that.

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A couple of notes about the two-parter.

  • So, exactly how did the Master come back? He suppressed the regeneration. What's in the Book of Saxon that allows people to summon his spirit, or --in the case of his wife-- brew terrible re-embodiment-disruption potions out of common prison-cell materials? Why was any of that even in there?
  • The "master race" bit wasn't retroactively cancelled by Rassilon; it was simply reversed. It's true that people came away without any direct memories of being Harold Saxon, but when they go back and review footage of that day, I suspect that having a Jovian planet manifest in the sky is going to be the second most traumatic event of the day.
  • I remember a 4th-Doctor episode about cactus-creatures that could look like people. (I admit, I don't remember much more than that.) I wonder, idly, if the alien salvage team was related.
  • Are all Gallifreyans Time Lords? I'm not sure where I'd gotten the impression that the Time Lords were just an elite governing body of the populace. The crowd scene of Time Lords was really surprising. And, hey, the architecture of Gallifrey public buildings doesn't make a lick of sense.
  • Who was the other Time Lord who voted "No"?
  • Who cares about the radiation? Why didn't the bloody fall from a great height, at great speed kill him?
  • "I don't want to go," as last lines go, is really pathetic; who does want to go? Could we not have had something a tad more heroic, or at least wry? And the explosion made no sense.

It was like Michael Bey directed Doctor Who.

When Peter Davison's tenure came to an end, it was fun to watch the last episode and see just how many ways the character was going to die, how many hazards, poisons, etc. he was going to endure before the writers said, "Enough already."

This time around, it ws fun to count the number of four-knocks: the Master banging on the can, the "time-lord's heartbeat", the goofy Gallifreyan witch's rat-a-tat-tat.


Loopy wrote:
I didn't cry. It was a damn hard task, though.

I cried a little bit. But then I laughed a little bit when Smith feels his hair and thinks he's a girl for a moment.

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Samnell wrote:
Loopy wrote:
I didn't cry. It was a damn hard task, though.
I cried a little bit. But then I laughed a little bit when Smith feels his hair and thinks he's a girl for a moment.

That was pretty funny. More so when he grabs his chest and says, "no, definately not a girl."


I find it is fascinating that he considers that a possibility. My wife has been arguing for a female Doctor for years.

Personally, I don't think the fans are ready, but that's just me. Shhhh.. Don't tell her.

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Watcher wrote:

I find it is fascinating that he considers that a possibility. My wife has been arguing for a female Doctor for years.

Personally, I don't think the fans are ready, but that's just me. Shhhh.. Don't tell her.

I'd be ready for that! That would be cool! Well, provided they got a good actress.

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Watcher wrote:

I find it is fascinating that he considers that a possibility. My wife has been arguing for a female Doctor for years.

Personally, I don't think the fans are ready, but that's just me. Shhhh.. Don't tell her.

Wasn't there a fan made series where the Doctor was a woman?


Well, Joanna Lumley briefly took the spot in a Comic Relief special years ago, but that's not canonical.


Watcher wrote:
I find it is fascinating that he considers that a possibility.

If you recall the 9th Doctor had the whole rambled about two heads, no head, no nose. It could be that without the other time lords 'rules" that the process is more random and chaotic then it normally would be. It could be that what ever restants where there are gone, and maybe he is unsure of just what "saftys" are left in play


Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
I'd be ready for that! That would be cool! Well, provided they got a good actress.

I'd probably adapt. However you hit the nail on the head. It's not that I think it couldn't be done, I just have Janeway flashbacks.

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Watcher wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
I'd be ready for that! That would be cool! Well, provided they got a good actress.
I'd probably adapt. However you hit the nail on the head. It's not that I think it couldn't be done, I just have Janeway flashbacks.

I think they *could* have done it. But now Donna is canon, the character that would be a female Dr already exists.

Liberty's Edge

I've held off on commenting till now, wondering if my impression would change, but... I was a little let down by the episode, and the first half was even a little boring *gasp!*.

I really enjoyed the latter half, and especially the final lap around castmates.

Definitely looking forward to Matt's take on my favorite superhero.

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Well under the catagory of 'duh' I'd never made the connection that Steven Moffett is also the guy who did Coupling.

Damn, Coupling and Blink. My appriciation of his talents just went up quite a bit.

Spoiler:
+1,000,000 points if the Doctor says 'Lesbian Spank Inferno' in the new series.

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Matthew Morris wrote:

Well under the catagory of 'duh' I'd never made the connection that Steven Moffett is also the guy who did Coupling.

Damn, Coupling and Blink. My appriciation of his talents just went up quite a bit.

** spoiler omitted **

AMEN. Or goes off on decorative throw pillows.

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James Martin wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:

Well under the catagory of 'duh' I'd never made the connection that Steven Moffett is also the guy who did Coupling.

Damn, Coupling and Blink. My appriciation of his talents just went up quite a bit.

** spoiler omitted **

AMEN. Or goes off on decorative throw pillows.

Or actually ducks behind a couch to hide from the Dalek.

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Arakhor wrote:
Well, Joanna Lumley briefly took the spot in a Comic Relief special years ago, but that's not canonical.

She is, however, totally the Doctor in my personal Fanon.

She was awesome as the Doctor. Of course, so was Rowan Atkinson, Hugh Grant, Richard Grant, and Jim Broadbent, but of that group I think she was my favorite.

When Matt Smith grabbed his chest he was clearly checking for Etheric Beam Locators. ;)

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In our d20 Doctor Who game, my wife is currently Doctor #4. As a female. :)


I think the shows answered a at least a couple of dangling questions like, why the Master was resurrected insane instead of just power-hungry and why the Doctor destroyed Galifray.

Did anyone notice that the show stared the werewolf couple from Being Human?

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Xabulba wrote:

I think the shows answered a at least a couple of dangling questions like, why the Master was resurrected insane instead of just power-hungry and why the Doctor destroyed Galifray.

Did anyone notice that the show stared the werewolf couple from Being Human?

I recognized the guy, but where was the girl?


Mac Boyce wrote:
Xabulba wrote:

I think the shows answered a at least a couple of dangling questions like, why the Master was resurrected insane instead of just power-hungry and why the Doctor destroyed Galifray.

Did anyone notice that the show stared the werewolf couple from Being Human?

I recognized the guy, but where was the girl?

She was the female cactus.

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Xabulba wrote:
Mac Boyce wrote:
Xabulba wrote:

I think the shows answered a at least a couple of dangling questions like, why the Master was resurrected insane instead of just power-hungry and why the Doctor destroyed Galifray.

Did anyone notice that the show stared the werewolf couple from Being Human?

I recognized the guy, but where was the girl?
She was the female cactus.

D'OH!!!!!!!!

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By the way, does anyone else feel like the Ood are being set up to become the new Time Lords? Particularly in Part One where they can see through the time stream, and not only recognize the fact that their society is advancing too quickly for the timeline to have not been played with, but accept that it is something that needs fixing. I wonder if they will play a bigger role in the Who mythology as time goes on.

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