(And, no, I'm not going to produce examples because it's going to be very hard to avoid a flamewar or the appearance of making personal attacks)
Except some of us may have found all of them already and decided they aren't what we're looking for. So we keep asking until someone comes up with a version we like.Could you cite an example of what you've seen and what may have been their functionality issue that doesn't suit well for you? Perhaps it'll help them rethink their design direction.
Sometimes, I wonder (as I've read in a couple of posts prior to this) where people just want to see PAIZO be their sole provider of those race variants?
Actually that would suit me. I don't worry about Paizo's products having balance issues because I've seen and now trust their quality control and vetting process on playtesting and the like.
I haven't had such luck with 3pp, and as such would have to spend more time and energy going over everything they have to make sure it's to my tastes power/balance wise.
That's not to say they wouldn't be, however if I'm going to spend money on a product I want to know first.
Also my FLGS doesn't carry much 3pp stuff -- it just doesn't sell for them, so I don't have an opportunity to browse before I buy most of the 3pp stuff (again to see if I like it).
* Now again this isn't to say 3pp can't make good stuff or that it wouldn't match my tastes, it's just to say that I don't have the same degree of trust for them, or the time and money to invest in their products without knowing more about what they do first. Yes it's a Catch 22, however that's the way it goes for me.
Except some of us may have found all of them already and decided they aren't what we're looking for. So we keep asking until someone comes up with a version we like.Could you cite an example of what you've seen and what may have been their functionality issue that doesn't suit well for you? Perhaps it'll help them rethink their design direction.
Sometimes, I wonder (as I've read in a couple of posts prior to this) where people just want to see PAIZO be their sole provider of those race variants?
Actually that would suit me. I don't worry about Paizo's products having balance issues because I've seen and now trust their quality control and vetting process on playtesting and the like.
I haven't had such luck with 3pp, and as such would have to spend more time and energy going over everything they have to make sure it's to my tastes power/balance wise.
That's not to say they wouldn't be, however if I'm going to spend money on a product I want to know first.
Also my FLGS doesn't carry much 3pp stuff -- it just doesn't sell for them, so I don't have an opportunity to browse before I buy most of the 3pp stuff (again to see if I like it).
* Now again this isn't to say 3pp can't make good stuff or that it wouldn't match my tastes, it's just to say that I don't have the same degree of trust for them, or the time and money to invest in their products without knowing more about what they do first. Yes it's a Catch 22, however that's the way it goes for me.
*think it got lost the first time... if not just I'll delete this.
Perhaps just to show that I have some ideas of what specifically I do want here's my dream-team...
*An anthropomorphic fox race. Exact kind of fox doesn't matter...
I vote fennec.
Otherwise, I hate to do this to you, but have you checked into the race creation cookbook? Lot of math going on in there and it would be a hassle to whip up something something from scratch without a clear idea of what you want, but provides a decent guideline for any customizations you'd want to make if you really want something specific.
Regarding your previous post:
I've picked a few of those and my mileage varies.
The animu make a good general beast person race, I think. I wasn't keen on the background at all and the animal head thing bothered me too, but I thought they were pretty cool if you can ditch the fluff and make them all furry.
Obitu are really interesting and their background would actually work a lot better for most campaigns, but they have one seriously game-breaking flaw as written. They 'procreate' through infecting other undead creatures which eventually turn into other obitu that follow them around for a few weeks and take orders. So a 1st-level Obitu character of any class could start creating an army of his children as soon as the party starts running into undead encounters.
Entobians are the bug people, right? I liked them a lot, the mutation forms are really cool and they don't get any completely obnoxious abilities.
I would love to see a Fey'ri(elf+demon) race.
It's one of the best concepts I know.
I would love to see a Fey'ri(elf+demon) race.
It's one of the best concepts I know.
I think an semi human-like insectoid race would be nice... The AD&D Dark Sun campaign incorporated it with a lot of success.
Like a half fiendish elf?I would love to see a Fey'ri(elf+demon) race.
It's one of the best concepts I know.
Exactly!!!
Thank you!!!
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I think new races can add to a game, but I also think it requires some creative thinking to justify them. I would never GM a game allowing just anything, unless it was a specific goal to do so -- and even then a GM should be cautious with respect to fairness at the game table.
Personally, I would like to see more races as plausible options for lesser known races in the Golarion setting, and others perhaps just for interest and gaming amusement. So count me cautiously open-minded -- after all, a lot of this kind of thing is really a matter of personal taste -- every game is different. Btw: I like the new races in Tome of Secrets.
Some new races of interest to me (most already exist in some OGL form somewhere):
1) Lupin/Lupine/Wolven -- anthropomorphic wolves/wild dogs; I think of the old art for the ones from Paladium, or the Vargr from Traveller. A non-evil gnoll-like race even. The key to making this work well would be their racial backstory/cultural history.
2) Celestial/Fiendish Beastmen -- sort of like the Trollocs of the Wheel of Time, but where they are either touched by divine Good, or tainted by divine Evil. I would go one step further: a race whose traits vary by time of day so at night they are fiendish, and by day they are celestial. Could be an interesting challenge if set up right. I'd prefer they are divinely influenced but not created by the actions of angels or demons (angel/demon-spawn has become overdone now I feel).
3) Sprites -- a race fey-like race that is at least small, if not tiny, that can fly as their normal movement. Given they would be hard pressed in most melee situations, I'd give them extra ability/power with illusory, enchanting, and transmutational magic. I believe Monte Cook had something like them in Arcana Evolved.
4) Clockwork Constucts -- similar to Eberron but not so "alive", or as those found in Fantasy-Craft! Arcane made and/or powered; perhaps considered "unborn"... I think constructs are becoming a new PC staple in fantasy rpgs now.
5) Treant race -- large sized and slow, but with many unique benefits. Could work well in the right setting and campaign style. Again Fantasy-Craft has one that may be worth looking at to "Pathfinderize".
And then other last minute thoughts: minotaurs, winged-folk (see very old issues of Dragon -- I don't recall the issue #s), and something truly amphibious...
I see others here have posted good suggestions -- some I'd echo -- so I'll stop there.
Perhaps just to show that I have some ideas of what specifically I do want here's my dream-team:
*Mantis-people very much looking like the thri-keen but minus the psionics and poison.
If it kept the scythe-like grappling claws (for goodness sake don't make them into a slashing weapon)
I'm waiting till someone else reviews it. Apparently the previous version had some issues and I'm waiting to see if they were corrected.
Yeah, that's a good call. I dig it, but pulling that kind of data out of end product material is going to buck the game's actual design intent somewhere along the line in a few places.
I do think they're a cool idea, just not one I want to use for my personal creations. As for simply ditching the fluff I would think that'd defeat the purpose.
Right, I think this whole series has some problems with being a little too specific with concepts and justifications though it's interesting and all. I'm pretty boring in my race tastes, so the ad copy got me pretty thrilled for most of these, but what seems like a cool idea for a bugperson or living skeleton soon turns into a collection of high concepts you can't just fit into any old campaign.
It's like Creature Collection compared to Tome of Horrors, there's just a few too many setting assumptions you won't use going on, and that really takes the p*** out.
...
The folding claws would look kind of odd on the humanoid frame.
I'm not a huge fan of ever expanding races. Much like classes, I'd rather have some kind of fantasy archetype to hang a concept on rather than just a neat mechanical idea, or a general idea that might seem cool but doesn't have a lot of depth when it comes to folklore or stories supporting the creature type.
That having been said, there are a few that have seeped into my brain that I wouldn't mind seeing, if they were done properly.
Living Construct
I don't really want to see a race that is mass produced and is suppose to be common anywhere. Most of the classic examples of the living construct (and there actually are examples, from legends of berserk golems to Frankenstein) have to do with a unique creature that has obtained sentience.
I'd rather see a living construct that could be denoted as being made of one of the classic golem materials, gaining some minor different traits from that choice, and retaining the feel of an archetype rather than a related race. I'm kind of tired of the clockwork/multi-material construct type that I think most of us are familiar with.
Design wise, I think the race would have to just have a flavorful nod towards the related golem, and otherwise conform to design norms. For example, they should probably all be medium size. May need a workaround for Constitution, as has been done with similar concepts.
And yes, I realize that you could recreate Shale with this.
Really Fey Fey
I think there is room for a low powered fey creature that can serve as an alien kind of fey creature, less "normal" than elves and even gnomes (and I know these guys aren't really fey, but they are typically portrayed as "ex-fey.")
Because of the presence of elves and gnomes, you have to have a strong identity for these guys. I'm thinking more along the lines of some kind of protean creature that may not even have a true form, so they can achieve minor shape shifting, and can use very minor charm and nature based powers.
So, these guys would have a form that they are comfortable appearing in more often than others, but its not really a true form, per se. If you make them small, they might work as a kind of catch all for sprite/changeling/trickster type fey.
Tree People, or junior Treants
Pretty much says it all. Tree people show up all the time in fantasy, and often even help out the heroes. Keep these guys medium, or come up with some good ways to reign in a Large character, and I think you've got a win.
Just make sure they look like trees.
Undead
Yes, I will totally admit the main reason I'm throwing this on the list is that WoW has an undead PC race. For some reason that resonates with me, especially if you make them victims of some kind of catastrophe that hit them before they really knew they were dead.
Make them sadder than they are "haunting" so than an ongoing character doesn't have to be evil or goal oriented, they just have to be sorting out what they want to get out of their "unlife."
As with the Living Construct, you may need a workaround with Constitution. Heck, you could even make these guys "almost" alive and not quite really undead, but not quite fully functionally alive, and just give them some fun undead window dressing (like being healed by negative energy).
If they just look like pale, "almost deads" but not quite rotting, they could easily still adventure in most cities without drawing a crowd. If they were the result of accident or tragedy, you don't need to explain why no one ever saw them before, because they are rare and not always easy to pick out, and not a true "race" as a similar set of circumstances.
Slight Side Rant
Don't feel that you have to make a race common just because its designed to be a PC race. Sure, you have to explain why, if something is a bit odd, people aren't getting their pitchforks an torches, but that doesn't mean that you suddenly have to have populations of them all over the place to "excuse" making them into a PC race.
This bugged me when WOTC felt they had to make elves in Faerun end the Retreat to justify elf PCs, and when they gave dwarves the Thunder Blessing to make them more common, and when every new race that showed up in a "Race of" book was written as if there would be districts in cities and nations of that race in the world.
There can be a handful of X, and one of them can be a PC, and that's just fine.
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I agree with Thri'krin. Had lots of fun with those back in 2e Darksun.
I'd also like to see returns, as others have said, of Draconians and Minotaurs from Dragonlance. Kender would be nifty as well. I used to have a blast playing a kender.
Warforged, shifters and changelings ala Eberon would be excellent choices if there were a decent way around the copyright stuff.
I'd also be keen to see some of the races from the Iron Kingdoms settings like the gobbers, Nys and so on. In fact, I will likely be kitbashing IK in Pathfinder in the near future.
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I'd like the eventual Pathfinder Companion for the M'wangi Expanse to include an entry for the monkey servants of The Silverback King. Even if they aren't a PC race, it'd be nice to have some intelligent evil monkeys.
The winged men of Devil's Perch that are mentioned in the Cheliax PF Companion would be nice to see too.
Overall, I'd prefer to see races that are already present in Golarion expanded on before we see a bunch of strange new races get shoehorned into the campaign setting.
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Oh yeah,I forgot one. I used to run a young troll that was created from the Monsters book from AEG(I think). Had a blast with that one. Sure, not as tough or powerful as a full grown troll, plenty of predjudice and such to work around, made it all the more interesting. Crowning moment was when we ran up against the wizard big bad that we were chasing. I still can't believe the DM did this with his NPC, but there's my troll, flat on his back looking up at the wizard who...for whatever reason...decides to cast a fireball straight down into my troll's face.
Final Score...troll 1, wizard 0. Never cast a fireball at a creature that you're standing over....>:)
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I'd like the eventual Pathfinder Companion for the M'wangi Expanse to include an entry for the monkey servants of The Silverback King. Even if they aren't a PC race, it'd be nice to have some intelligent evil monkeys.
My preferences is to make them awakened chaotic evil apes (with the occasional dire ape), with their leaders having fiendish and half-fiendish traits. I even made up a spell for them, usable by adepts and Clerics of Anghazan, that awakened a simian (and gave it an evil alignment), but required the sacrifice of a normally sentient race (human, elf, etc.), allowing the 'culture' to continue, even if their intelligence didn't breed true.
I'm not really keen on a half-person, half-monkey race for the Mwangi 'city of the apes' folk. Awakened monkeys (and apes) serve the purpose quite nicely, and have a cool 'get my hands off me, you damn dirty ape!' feel to them, as they had to be originally awakened by humans, and have since turned into a menace that hunts, enslaves (and, in this case, *eats*) humans...
The winged men of Devil's Perch that are mentioned in the Cheliax PF Companion would be nice to see too.
Yeah, I'm on the fence about whether I want these to be dudes with wings (and maybe feathers instead of hair, echoes of Flash Gordon's hawkmen) or actual bird-men, similar to the original Fiend Folio's Aarakocra or the Psittae of Penumbra's Seven Strongholds (both many times more fascinating than the hapless Raptorans, IMO).
Overall, I'd prefer to see races that are already present in Golarion expanded on before we see a bunch of strange new races get shoehorned into the campaign setting.
Agreed. If there are to be new races, I'd prefer that they be from Arcadia or Tien Xa or Vudra or one of the other planets in the system. Like most D&D settings, Golarion is literally *crawling* with humanoid races (elf, dwarf, human, halfling, gnome, hobgoblin, goblin, orc, gnoll, bugbear, ogre, various halfbreeds, tieflings, aasimar, genasi / suli, sahuagin, skum, locathah, merfolk, dark elves, deep gnomes, gray dwarves, aquatic elves, pink hearts, green clovers...).
I love the idea of some new races, but wouldn't want Absalom to start looking like Mos Eisley...
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My preferences is to make them awakened chaotic evil apes (with the occasional dire ape), with their leaders having fiendish and half-fiendish traits. I even made up a spell for them, usable by adepts and Clerics of Anghazan, that awakened a simian (and gave it an evil alignment), but required the sacrifice of a normally sentient race (human, elf, etc.), allowing the 'culture' to continue, even if their intelligence didn't breed true.
I'm not really keen on a half-person, half-monkey race for the Mwangi 'city of the apes' folk. Awakened monkeys (and apes) serve the purpose quite nicely, and have a cool 'get my hands off me, you damn dirty ape!' feel to them, as they had to be originally awakened by humans, and have since turned into a menace that hunts, enslaves (and, in this case, *eats*) humans...
I'd be perfectly happy with the M'wangi apes being awakened apes and not vanara. I like vanara, but I imagine the M'wangi apes are a little closer to Gorilla Grodd (ooo, psi-apes.) I'd just like to see a section that explains their culture and general statistics.
Yeah, I'm on the fence about whether I want these to be dudes with wings (and maybe feathers instead of hair, echoes of Flash Gordon's hawkmen) or actual bird-men, similar to the original Fiend Folio's Aarakocra or the Psittae of Penumbra's Seven Strongholds (both many times more fascinating than the hapless Raptorans, IMO).
The language used in the text suggests men with wings rather than bird-men so I'm guessing they're closer to raptorans or avariel than aarakocra, but there isn't much to go on. I wonder if the name Devil's Perch is a hint that they might be bat-winged.
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The language used in the text suggests men with wings rather than bird-men so I'm guessing they're closer to raptorans or avariel than aarakocra, but there isn't much to go on. I wonder if the name Devil's Perch is a hint that they might be bat-winged.
Ooh, given the region and the Devil's Perch thing, perhaps they are the Golarion equivalent of Fey'ri, only descended from Chelaxians who have had unwholesome relations with Erinyes? Sort of a winged tiefling subrace.
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There is a some race options I would like to see. While I think paizo would do a great job with them. i would actually rather see 3pp do them. Why you might ask, simple i don't want them to try and stuff Golarion with everything. Now if they did a setting neutral game line book for it not tied to Golarion that would be cool. I would just like to pick and choose which ones to add personally for the most part. I just don't want to see Golarion turn into Star Wars with a zillion different races all over.
I like a lot of the race idea's others have named I can't really think of one that has not been named yet. I would just like to see them if done really seem very inhuman. Not in a bad way but just to make them stand apart more than just a funny looking human. Which is why i try to make the core races come across as more alien in some ways to humans.
Oh yeah,I forgot one. I used to run a young troll that was created from the Monsters book from AEG(I think). Had a blast with that one. Sure, not as tough or powerful as a full grown troll, plenty of predjudice and such to work around, made it all the more interesting. Crowning moment was when we ran up against the wizard big bad that we were chasing. I still can't believe the DM did this with his NPC, but there's my troll, flat on his back looking up at the wizard who...for whatever reason...decides to cast a fireball straight down into my troll's face.
Final Score...troll 1, wizard 0. Never cast a fireball at a creature that you're standing over....>:)
Oh man, that reminds me of the wizard enemies in Elder Scrolls Arena. They'll just pop out of nowhere, and they have this fireball-like spell that hits an area. Problem is, they're usually close to you when they cast it. And they have very little hp. So they usually just appear, a red blast of fire fills the screen, and then they die. Talk about tampering with powers beyond your control...
I'm partial to more lizardmen, since I have a continent in the works for my setting that's the lizardmen's home country. I was going to import the Poison Dusk lizardfolk from MM 3 because god I love those little guys. The blackscales are kinda eh, but you can base them off of more fun lizards to get different results. Maybe also some turtle people? (And a remake of the ninja class?)
I have an idea for a race that I will let you steal: Urban Fey. Basically, the powers residing in large civilizations begin acting to protect themselves, and so they create guardians that appear as any race in the civilization. These energies are imperfect, however, and 80% of these creatures are born with no ties to their home city, 15% with a minor tie, and 5% so strongly tied that they cannot leave. They possess minor magical abilities intrinsic to city life, and also may extrude some theme in the society. I had a player who was born with no real ties to his hometown (And was chased out torch and pitchfork when he was born, since it looked like he just popped into existence), a player who was based on the idea of human faith in the setting and made bargains with fae lords to protect himself and others, and one who appeared as an exact duplicate of a nobleman who had recently been murdered, with only extremely fuzzy knowledge of the other him's life. Other concepts I had were an NPC who symbolized industry. He was naturally resistant to injury and strong as an ox but was fairly uncreative. If he had a magical ability, it would be to repair structures he laid hands on at a slow rate.
The race basically could appear as any race inhabiting the city but were immortal and could age, albeit only in appearance and slowly at that. They are "born" knowing certain languages and things about the society and at the age of an adult. Some lucky few who have it fit with their concept (like the reborn noble) even get their very own "birthday suit", otherwise they're born naked as a jaybird.
This.
You win.
The winged humanoids in Cheliax at the Devil's Perch