Okay, my biggest problem of the Summoner for me was
1. Lack of social skills
2. Eidolon stealing the show
So I went back and rejigged to see what I could do. I took the easy/munchkin way out and took two levels of Paladin which gave the PC Martial Weapons, Social Skills, Detect Evil, Smite Evil, Divine Grace and Lay on Hands. The Eidolon was a quadruped form, all claws and pouncy. The Summoner was 8th.
Then he went off adventuring!
Rather than give a blow by blow account of what happened I will summerise my thoughts.
The social skills made him less one dimensional and could interact with NPCs well, a real party face. During combat he buffed himself more than the Eidolon to make him more on par and Haste was his friend. The Summoner could make real impact on combat with a few more hits and swinging a two-handed sword. And the CHA mod was now very, very useful; +4 on all saves smoothed out the crappy REF save and his WILL save was just silly :)
The SM ability nerf hurt. The number of summoned critters was never a problem for me anyway, I just wouldn't waste them on the first couple of encounters, but the drop in duration and increase in casting time did. It was commented that the Summoner should be able to use his summoning ability with a click of his fingers and we may just try that out. Summon as a move action!
The weapon boost was also helpful as it made the Summoner just that little bit more competent in combat.
Overall: Really enjoyed playing it! The Eidolon wasn't the star and was deliberatly played down by me. Mr Clawy Pouncy was a perfect flanking partner and double teaming brought down most foes in a few rounds. I used Natural Armor Evolution to drag its AC up and coupled with Enlarge Person made it a killing machine. This class has great possibility as a, I hate the word, g!$H. I am planning to carry on with this PC and take DD as the next ten levels to build on the G!$hy theme.
Additional
Eidolon and armor: A lot has been said about this but as a compromise I would suggest that the natural armor progression and evolution just don't stack.
Eidolon and equipment: After contact for 24 hours the equipment is part of the Eidolon and stays with him with the exception of cursed items. Thanks to the Summoner's bond to the Eidolon they are transfered to the Summoner instead.
Summon Monster SLA: The longer duration needs to stay! It gives more flexability to the summons and the critters may have more use outside of combat. A full round action hurts too, so putting it back to a standard action will solve that. The single SLA SM needs to stay however. The possibility of abuse from players and DMs is huge, as a player I certainly wouldn't like to go up against a BEEG who has spammed SM all over the shop. All that fighting for no experiance! Personally I don't see the multiple summons as a player issue but a DM one. As an old school MU player I can remember adventuring with my *single* spell (Sleep) which once gone relegated the MU to ineffective dart thrower. Resources are precious and as a player I wouldn't spam SM just in case.
|
Thanks for your report. I took a similar, gighy path in my own playtest but simply snagged a martial proficiency and went at it. I think this path doesn't overshadow the Summoner as much and emphasizes a servant/master or partner relationship (depending on RP) better than the super bad ass Eidolon and buff monkey build.
I don't like the idea of giving Eidolons equipment at all. Too much confusion with what happens to them when the Eidolon disappears and too much abuse potential. Plus it seemingly gives a more substantial boost to certain Eidolons while making others murky. If I have a serpentine Eidolon can I get something for a shoulder slot?
I agree completely, though, on the summon SLA. As a lvl 1 I had absolutely no reason to use it so an entire class feature was wasted. How pissed would a Barbarian be if he never got to Rage? A Rogue who never got a sneak attack?
i am glad you were able to enjoy the class a little more. Mutliclassing with the other charismatic martial class seems like a good plan to boost its fighting abilities. I look forward to hearing more about the character, though I worry about the eidolons viability if you go into DD. After a few levels it would be where the rangers animal companion would be and end up too vulnerable for appropriate encounters.
i am glad you were able to enjoy the class a little more. Mutliclassing with the other charismatic martial class seems like a good plan to boost its fighting abilities. I look forward to hearing more about the character, though I worry about the eidolons viability if you go into DD. After a few levels it would be where the rangers animal companion would be and end up too vulnerable for appropriate encounters.
That is what playtesting is for :)
Yea, your right it could be too vulnerable but until it is played out I don't know for sure. If the Eidolon becomes the PC mount then that changes the dynamic on its utility. As for the DD I might only go eight levels with it and take two more as Summoner. A 9HD Eidolon mount kicks the Paladin's mount into orbit.
I'm still of the opinion that on the face of it the Eidolon steals the show and that still the problem I have. However saying that I am trying to generate a build which solves that problem and make it a class I would enjoy playing. The munchkin like dip into Paladin solved a lot of my concerns and I can easily generate fluff to explain it. However it does seem a very obvious choice as long as you aren't too concerned about cap-stone abilities.
If people want a fighter/mage type then a Paladin/Summoner seems a pretty good bet.
i am glad you were able to enjoy the class a little more. Mutliclassing with the other charismatic martial class seems like a good plan to boost its fighting abilities. I look forward to hearing more about the character, though I worry about the eidolons viability if you go into DD. After a few levels it would be where the rangers animal companion would be and end up too vulnerable for appropriate encounters.That is what playtesting is for :)
Yea, your right it could be too vulnerable but until it is played out I don't know for sure. If the Eidolon becomes the PC mount then that changes the dynamic on its utility. As for the DD I might only go eight levels with it and take two more as Summoner. A 9HD Eidolon mount kicks the Paladin's mount into orbit.
I'm still of the opinion that on the face of it the Eidolon steals the show and that still the problem I have. However saying that I am trying to generate a build which solves that problem and make it a class I would enjoy playing. The munchkin like dip into Paladin solved a lot of my concerns and I can easily generate fluff to explain it. However it does seem a very obvious choice as long as you aren't too concerned about cap-stone abilities.
If people want a fighter/mage type then a Paladin/Summoner seems a pretty good bet.
Well if you take 8 levels of DD i'm pretty sure the eidolon will stop being center stage pretty quickly, but let me know how it turns out, I am curious how this ones going to turn out.
If people want a fighter/mage type then a Paladin/Summoner seems a pretty good bet.Or maybe a cavalier/summoner?
That did occur to me. I noted that people were complaining that a war horse going up against a CR12 critter would be toast which kind of undermines the basic premise of a Cavalier. The Eidolon would be a way to address that. I haven't read the Cavalier so I can't really comment to much on it.
BTW Cavalier and Roundhead means different things to me. I can't help it. I would explain *but* it is a bit rude...