Looking through the posts here, I can safely say that there seems to be three schools of thought about the summoner...
-The Eidolon is the purpose of this class, the humanoid with the spells is secondary.
-The Eidolon gets too much power and there needs to be a larger focus on actually summoning things.
-Summoner is overpowered.
It seems to me there's a pretty clean split between the two things the summoner does:
A) Have and buff an Eidolon
B) Summon random monsters to throw at people.
One issue here is that the Eidolon, as cool as it is, is not flavored like a Summoned Monster, but like an Animal Companion. It takes 10 rounds to summon, making it impossible to call in combat, and can only be summoned once per day. Dismissing it and re-summoning regularly is entirely out of the question. Allowing it to be regularly called and dismissed, perhaps that 3+Cha times per day, for a limited duration, would help increase the thought of "I am an awesome summoner" and decrease the idea of "We no longer need a fighter." Doing this could, in fact, justify giving the Eidolon MORE power, as it will cost the summoner at least a standard to summon it, and it will not have to worry about serious reprocussions from running out of hit points.
On the other hand, some people just want to have a really cool monster all the time, and there's plenty of reason to want that: In 4E, the best part of being a Druid is that you can just be a bear all the time if you really want to. So how do we reconcile the two opposing schools? The same way Rangers, Wizards, Sorcerers, and so many other classes do: Choose a specialization.
I propose allowing the Summoner to pick either Eidolon Specialization, Summoning Specialization, or neither specialization.
Eidolon Specialization would have a constant Eidolon, as presently designed, but the Summoner would exchange it's 3+Cha summons per day for a buff-oriented spell list. Certain spells, such as Fly, would be avaliable 1 level lower with the stipulation "This spell may only be cast on your Eidolon." Other useful buff and support spells, such as the Cure spells, would be added to this Summoner's spell list, with the target line replaced with "Target: Your Eidolon."
The Summoning Specialization would have an Eidolon that had to be called with a Summon spell, and would not be around constantly. This summoner would also lose features like Aspect and Shield Ally that rely on the Eidolon. Insted, the Summoner would gain the Conjurer's ability to increase the duration of summon spells, the Abyssal Sorcerer's ability to gain bonus summons and to grant summons DR (though not necesarrily alignment DR), the Augment Summoning feat as a bonus feat, and other such abilities to enhance the power of summon monster spells. This summoner would have more power per encounter, as most spellcasters do, but would not have the Eidolon Specialization's benefit of being able to have an awesome monster all day.
In the middle would be the split focus summoner, similar to the class as is now, though with a weakened Eidolon and a few more bonuses to casting (there's really no reason for a class called Summmoner to not get Augment Summoning as a bonus feat).
Alternatively, these features could be chosen at various levels. At level 1, for example, you could choose to trade your 3+Cha summons a day for an Eidolon-happy spell list or you could choose to trade your permanent Eidolon for a stronger Eidolon that costs your Summons spells to bring out. At level 4, when you would get Shield Ally, you can choose to trade that in for Augment Summoning, etc, etc.
The simple point is, there seems to be a clear split between people who want to throw a giant monster at their foes and people who want to show up Conjurers and Abyssal Sorcerers, and a lack of an option to focus one way or another will only result in this class being overlooked too often in favor of Druids (who have the buff spells to make their companions crazy and can turn into monsters themselves) and Conjurers (who can summon armies more effectively and compliment it with a better spell selection... And can use spells to turn into monsters themselves, if they really want to)
I have to say this is quite an interesting idea. I'm not sure how different eidolon stats depending on specialization would work out, but I think the idea itself definitely has some merit.
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This is how I feel too -- I see the Summoner Summoner as being great at summoning with an eidolon more along the lines of a customizeable animal companion, and the Eidolon Summoner (Shame 'Eidoloncer' is taken) having its awesome Eidolon and not much else, and possibly an in-between build of sorts. But I kind of doubt it will go that way if the designer sees the Eidolon as being the point of the class. But we can dream! Maybe a summoning-focused prestige class?
I'm not sure where this confusion comes in because it's pretty clear in the class write up. First paragraph:
While many who dabble in the arcane become adept at
beckoning monsters from the farthest reaches of the
planes, none are more skilled at it than the summoner.
This practitioner of the arcane arts forms a close bond
with one particular outsider, known as an eidolon, who
gains power as the summoner becomes more proficient
at his summoning. Over time, the two become linked,
eventually even sharing a shard of the same soul. But this
power does not come without a price: the summoner’s
spells and powers are limited due to his time spent
enhancing the power and exploring the nature of his
eidolon.
That is the design goal of the class, the Paizo guys have been pretty clear about this from the get-go.
I wouldn't mind seeing a summoner who specializes in Summon Monster X spells but at this point I find a split unlikely.
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I'm not sure where this confusion comes in because it's pretty clear in the class write up.
I figure people either aren't reading the fluff, read 'more proficienct at him summoning' as implying that the summoner does more than have an eidolon, look at the class features and think they're supposed to have summoning as a class feature too, or people just forget the fluff by the time they're done reading the class. Or maybe the name "Summoner" implies they're good at summoning.
Me I see no reason why having one particular pet that is your most powerful means that, despite being called a "Summoner", you shouldn't be good at summoning other things too. The eidolon is the star, but you supposedly have these great summoning skills you learned to work up to getting an eidolon, and sometimes they could still come in handy.
I'm not sure where this confusion comes in because it's pretty clear in the class write up. First paragraph
Because
a) They are using the term "Summoner" repeatedly. As someone who started DnD shortly before 3.0 came out and has been playing regularly ever since, I can safely say that most people who hear "Summoner" assume "Guy who casts Summon Monster spells a lot."b) The class clearly wants you to summon other monsters. It gains free castings of the Summon Monster spell and, despite stunted spell progression, grants Summon Monster spells at competitive levels. The Summoner can learn Summon Monster IX a level BEFORE a Conjurer can.
c) "While many who dabble in the arcane become adept at
beckoning monsters from the farthest reaches of the
planes, none are more skilled at it than the summoner. " This is highly in dispute if, when a Conjurerer and a Summoner both cast Summon Monster 5, the Conjurer's lasts 15 rounds and the Summoner's only lasts 10 (as of the new eratta.) None are more skilled, huh? Also, the Conjurer's capstone lets it have a summoned monster out all day. I'm not going to go and argue that any of these are better than the Eidolon, because as a whole they're probably not, but I AM going to argue that no Eidolon can spam mid to high level spells at will or even just cast as a 14th level cleric. (And yes, Summoners can summon those things, too, but not long enough for them to dump all their spells)
a -> Yes, I agree that the class name is confusing, but he most certainly summons and does it quite well. However you seem to discard the fact that he summons his most powerful creation for the entire day. Is the conjurer less of a summoner when he gets a permanent summons?
b -> Yes, no doubt. But it's intended to be secondary to the primary summons.
c -> "More Skilled" is fairly generic and could mean anything. More skilled like the conjurer who has long duration summons? More skilled like the Abyssal Sorcerer who gets twinning and DR/good? More skilled like the summoner who gets lots of high level summons per day (though one at a time)? Fortunately they expand on that in the following sentences detailing exactly how they are more skilled so we don't have to wonder.