No need for a prestige class; the Cleric is already a brutal melee presence on its own, better than the Fighter. As a dwarf, you get some good weapon options in your racial axe/hammer proficiencies. Just keep going pure Cleric. You only need enough Wisdom to get your highest-level spells, so starting at 15 wisdom and advancing to 19 is plenty, then pouring the rest into your strength and constitution will be plenty.
The only thing to really mind is what your best buffs are at any given level, both short-term and long-term. Find your hour/level buffs, and keep them up all day.
Two spells in particular to mind. Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon. These are both hour/level, and give your weapon flat enhancement bonuses. Come level 8, if you extend them, they pretty much last all day, and as your caster level advances, that enhancement bonus advances as well. What this means to you is that a +2 weapon is useless to you. You can turn a normal sword into a +2 axe or better all day. You want a +1 flaming axe so that you can turn it into a +2 flaming axe all day, and +1 fortification full plate, and you can get that +1 animated shield up to +3 when the time comes, then use a two-handed weapon at the same time.
There is also an alternate cleric option in the campaign setting hardback. Basically it is a militant cleric that makes you give up both of your domains and you gain a D10 HD and fast BAB progression. As it was written prior to PFRPG by a couple of months you could argue that since the domains are now a little better that it would include heavy armor as well.
Giving up both domains is a real downside. I'd definitely allow heavy armor.
Sigurd
full BAB and full casting? I was gonna allow this once then came to my senses
If you've already taken a level of cleric then your best bet is probably to stick with cleric and optimize for combat.
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Full Casting and Full BaB is not as great as it sounds. It's not bad, mind you but it most certainly is not game breaking as people tend to think it is. You do not have the same feat options of fighters even with the better BaB, and you can't focus on hitting as much as main melee characters so your one extra attack at 16th level really isn't that great. Not to mention as a full caster, your power comes from standard action+ spells. The D10's are good and I'd definetly add Hvy Armor to that (or something to make the War domain worth anything beyond 7th-9th level spells 1/day that conflict with Strength).
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Yo gang, Would like feed back on a cleric prestige class similar it the Eldritch Knight, the way it has been writen is for sorceres/wizards but this the +1 existing arcance spellcasting class be about to change to clerical. Or does anyone have any good idea's?
Currently playing a dwarven cleric of Gorum (domains: Strength & war)
the party has only 1 tank/fighter so i am needed to step up into melee a bit i dont mind this but, would like a way to aim for a combat cleric of some sorts.
It's called 'Paladin'
It's called 'Paladin'Yo gang, Would like feed back on a cleric prestige class similar it the Eldritch Knight, the way it has been writen is for sorceres/wizards but this the +1 existing arcance spellcasting class be about to change to clerical. Or does anyone have any good idea's?
Currently playing a dwarven cleric of Gorum (domains: Strength & war)
the party has only 1 tank/fighter so i am needed to step up into melee a bit i dont mind this but, would like a way to aim for a combat cleric of some sorts.
And now for something more helpful, and a bit less snide. Not sure why people insist on posting one line comments with the intention of being snide rather than contributing to the conversation. The question was not 'What class should I play from level 1 if I want <blah>', it was, what prestige class should I look at? So, on that idea...
A Paladin Prestige Class might be something to look at. I forget which book it was, either Unearthed Arcana or Players Handbook II, but one of them brought out the idea of classes as prestige classes (they had prestige bard, prestige ranger, and I think prestige paladin). Either way, a prestige class that had some of the core Paladin abilities might be the idea for you.
A ten level prestige class, smite 1/day at 1st, +1 every additional 3 levels (4th, 7th, 10th), +1 existing divine caster at 2-5 and 7-10, D10 hit die, full BAB, and heavy armor. No mount or divine weapon, just a martial version of the cleric. That smite could even be based on your channel (positive energy = Smite Evil, Negative energy = Smite Good), or based off alignment of your god (lawful = Smite Chaotic, Chaotic = Smite Lawful).
The possible tone of certain posts aside, I think everyone is trying to be helpful, just in different ways. It _is_ worth pointing out that a prestige class is not necessary to make a strong melee-based cleric (or other melee based divine warrior, like the paladin). Yes, the OP was asking for a prestige class, but perhaps he did not consider all the options he had before him before turning to a prestige class. Maybe he did, but it's worth mentioning, IMHO.
A prestige class may well be desirable, but it's important to bear in mind that prestige classes have prerequisites, and sometimes building towards those prerequisites can actually keep you from building your concept in the most efficient way.
There are certainly a ton of prestige classes for divine warrior types in 3.5... Complete Divine and I think Complete Warrior have several, and I always kinda liked Divine Champion from Forgotten Realms for its simplicity (though that sacrifices casting, IIRC).
The question the line of discussion on this thread poses is will a prestige class really enhance the OP's character concept, or would it be more viable and more accurate to the OP's vision to just build a straight up Pathfinder cleric (or possibly paladin) with the right feats and skillset?
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A Paladin Prestige Class might be something to look at. I forget which book it was, either Unearthed Arcana or Players Handbook II, but one of them brought out the idea of classes as prestige classes (they had prestige bard, prestige ranger, and I think prestige paladin). Either way, a prestige class that had some of the core Paladin abilities might be the idea for you.
Well, there are a few good PrCs for Paladins in 3.5 books
Complete Divine
Divine Crusader
Holy Liberator
Hospitaler
Pious Templar
Shining Blade of Heironeous
Complete Warrior
Cavalier(for mounted combat)
Hunter of the Dead
Justiciar
Kensai
Knight of the Chalice
Knight Protector
Occult Slayer
Purple Dragon Knight
Draconomicon
Dracolyte
Platinum Knight
Book of Exalted Deeds
Anointed Knight
Defender of Sealtiel
Sword of Righteousness
Vassal of Bahamut
Fiendish Codex 11: Tyrants of the Nine Hells
Hellbreaker
Hellreaver
The question the line of discussion on this thread poses is will a prestige class really enhance the OP's character concept, or would it be more viable and more accurate to the OP's vision to just build a straight up Pathfinder cleric (or possibly paladin) with the right feats and skillset?
See, I disagree. The OP was asking how to adjust his current character going forward, not how do I create a new character. The existing character has history, a personality, and he's played them for quite awhile and rightly doesn't want to toss that work just for mechanical changes.
I always hate when the response to 'how do I redirect my character' is 'make a new one'. That's not helpful, and in general is a knee-jerk reaction that says 'RP is secondary to crunch'.
I'd always rather redirect a PC in a new direction using multiclassing or PrC's rather than toss them and create a new character.
Given that, I think if you are wanting to continue advancing your spellcasting while boosting your martial ability, a PrC is probably the most effective way to do so. Either that, or taking a level of fighter every 3rd level going forward.
Well, there are a few good PrCs for Paladins in 3.5 books
<helpful list>
I think a lot are Paladin only, but a few were qualifiable by clerics (don't have access to my books just now). That is a very helpful list, thank you.
Yo gang, Would like feed back on a cleric prestige class similar it the Eldritch Knight, the way it has been writen is for sorceres/wizards but this the +1 existing arcance spellcasting class be about to change to clerical. Or does anyone have any good idea's?
Currently playing a dwarven cleric of Gorum (domains: Strength & war)
the party has only 1 tank/fighter so i am needed to step up into melee a bit i dont mind this but, would like a way to aim for a combat cleric of some sortsThanks for help
Kill well or.............DIE SQUEALING!
Honestly pay the pathfinder cleric feat tax and get back your heavy armor. Your a dwarven cleric the only draw back to plate is movement and restrictions on dex. Well your a dwarf chances are rather excellent dex isn't something you excel at and well you move no slower in full plate then in your birthday suit.
Take toughness, combat casting, maybe power attack and call it done. With your dwarven weapons, heavy armor, and good to excellent hit points you should be ready to roll.
In most four person groups the cleric is in the front line, it's not all that uncommon and it really doesn't take much to make you more then able to be good at it. Also don't forget to summon creatures when you can, they make excellent front line soldiers too and can reduce you need to heal your fellow team mates by soaking damage that would otherwise be headed for them.
*grumble dang post-monster*
Good suggestions above - Prestige Paladin *is* in Unearthed Arcana (Edit: and I think it is a 15 level class).
As for an actual "Holy" Knight analog to Eldritch Knight, here's how it breaks down:
Qualifying for/taking Eldritch:
Qualifying for/taking Holy:
Benefits:
Diverse training and bonus feats go a bit better with divine. Spell critical roughly as good, maybe a bit better on arcane.
Better synergy, lower benefits. Probably no reason to disallow.
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Revised List.
Complete Divine
Divine Crusader
Holy Liberator
Hospitaler
Pious Templar(better for a pally, but clerics can still enter)
Shining Blade of Heironeous(see Pious Templar)
Complete Warrior
Hunter of the Dead
Knight of the Chalice
Draconomicon
Dracolyte
Platinum Knight
Book of Exalted Deeds
Defender of Sealtiel
Sword of Righteousness
Vassal of Bahamut
Fiendish Codex 11: Tyrants of the Nine Hells
Hellreaver
Yo gang, Would like feed back on a cleric prestige class similar it the Eldritch Knight, the way it has been writen is for sorceres/wizards but this the +1 existing arcance spellcasting class be about to change to clerical. Or does anyone have any good idea's?
Currently playing a dwarven cleric of Gorum (domains: Strength & war)
the party has only 1 tank/fighter so i am needed to step up into melee a bit i dont mind this but, would like a way to aim for a combat cleric of some sortsThanks for help
Kill well or.............DIE SQUEALING!
Ordained Champion from Complete Champion. This PrC is BROOTAL! It's only a 5 level progression, but by the end of it, you'll be:
-Tossing Spontaneous Flame Strikes
-Channeling Spells(ala Duskblade), but ANY SPELL, not just Touch
-Full BAB progression
-Have DM's throwing books in disgust.
I played one once, and honestly, I felt really guilty because I was mopping the floor with what I came across. It took the Avatar of Lolth to bring me down(Demonweb Pits), and I was only level 12. With the right feats(also found in Complete Champion; Holy Warrior and War Devotion) I was nigh unstoppable. Might be a little broken...
See, I disagree. The OP was asking how to adjust his current character going forward, not how do I create a new character. The existing character has history, a personality, and he's played them for quite awhile and rightly doesn't want to toss that work just for mechanical changes.
1) "He's played them for quite awhile" -- where was this mentioned in the thread, because I missed it. He said he is playing a character, we don't know how long (if I missed the reference, I apologize for the oversight). The campaign could have just started for all we know from the thread, and for all we know he might have options for rebuilding if he's unhappy with what he's got.
2) Even if he has been playing the character for awhile, the advice of "stick with cleric, you're doing fine" applies perfectly well in this situation.
I'd suggest you stop demonizing people who are trying to help just as much as you are.
I always hate when the response to 'how do I redirect my character' is 'make a new one'. That's not helpful, and in general is a knee-jerk reaction that says 'RP is secondary to crunch'.
I didn't see anyone tell him to recreate his character. There was one person who mentioned the paladin jokingly as an example of "divine warrior prestige class" but did not actually tell the OP to play a paladin instead.
You're also really cramming words into people's mouths as far as "RP is secondary to crunch" goes. I think the point some are trying to make is in fact that the "crunch" of the cleric class is as or more powerful than trying to put a prestige class on top of it and that, again, the player may very well get exactly what he wants out of the character by continuing in the direction he started in. You're reading a lot more into this discussion than there is, and that is NOT being helpful at all.
Stones, glass houses, and all that.
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Well, I still think that Abjurant Champion or Ordained Champoin are the way to go (together kind of broken) two others I forgot to mention. In Exp to Castle Ravenloft there is the Knight of the Raven which is very cool. Good undead hunter, tank, and healer.
Also, Dragonlance has the Knight of the Sword, sort of paladiny but not a straight paladin.
Well, I still think that Abjurant Champion or Ordained Champoin are the way to go (together kind of broken) two others I forgot to mention. In Exp to Castle Ravenloft there is the Knight of the Raven which is very cool. Good undead hunter, tank, and healer.
Also, Dragonlance has the Knight of the Sword, sort of paladiny but not a straight paladin.
If y'all are thinking of the Abjurant Champion from the Complete Mage it's Arcane only.
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If y'all are thinking of the Abjurant Champion from the Complete Mage it's Arcane only.Well, I still think that Abjurant Champion or Ordained Champoin are the way to go (together kind of broken) two others I forgot to mention. In Exp to Castle Ravenloft there is the Knight of the Raven which is very cool. Good undead hunter, tank, and healer.
Also, Dragonlance has the Knight of the Sword, sort of paladiny but not a straight paladin.
See the part about using the class in other ways, (forget what it is called off hand). It specifically says yes to Cleric, as is.
See the part about using the class in other ways, (forget what it is called off hand). It specifically says yes to Cleric, as is.
The adaptations section is always a collection of possible houserules, not actual rules for the class. Some are perfectly reasonable and widely accepted, such as the unarmed Swordsage or the psionic Mindbender. Others are pretty ridiculous, like the arcane Swordsage.
I realize this thread is quite old and that campaign is probably long since completed, but for the sake of other people who are researching this topic:
the Gray Warden Prestige Class is pretty damn nice.
It's essentially the holy EK imho...with sneak attack and Bane weapon to boot.
"Quite old"? it's ancient... pre-APG, I would guess.
I like the holy vindicator:
+ all weapons+armor(no tower shields)
+ full BAB
+ enough casting progression to get 9th level spells
+ advances channeling, which is the only other class feature the clerics have
+ it's own neat class abilities
- doesn't advance domains, but you usually get access to the big domain power before taking vindicator levels
It's one of the few prestige class options that are better than base class 1-20.