I own the full chronicle line, the full RPG line (all 2 of them! lol), the full companion line, but I didn't start the APs until CoT. I bought all I own at and since GenCon '09. I love dead tree format. I wouldn't have it any other way when I'm at home reading it. I have no immediate plans to ever run or own any of the Pathfinder Modules or previous APs. I have no need to buy the pdfs for the books I bought at GenCon. Yet I find myself wanting them all. Why?... THE ART!
Not only do I love looking at it, I love to print select pieces out to show my players. It helps set the mood and describe things in ways I'm not capable.
It could be collected based on AP, period of time, or general product line. Something like "The Art of Second Darkness," or "The Art of 2009 Modules Part 1 of 4."
Would something like this even be possible? Could it include cartography as well? If it was available, would you buy it? What would it likely cost?
I can't imagine buying this, unless it was an oversized, coffee table book, but I don't think it would be high priority for me even then.
I was thinking it would be digital only. Essentially a zip file of high-res images.
Ah, sorry, slow mind today.
Yeah, I think I'd be more interested in that! (But not as a replacement for generous blog preview pics. ;) )
I would buy this in a heartbeat. Paizo's artists are incredibly talented, and my players tend to get inspiration from certain pieces that they think are cool.
Ah, sorry, slow mind today.
Yeah, I think I'd be more interested in that! (But not as a replacement for generous blog preview pics. ;) )
Nah, I reread my post and it's not 100% clear, more like 43.7%.
Dream Pod 9 did this for its Heavy Gear line, and it was some of the best-selling stuff, actually. PDF only.
Paizo has a bigger stable of artists, though, I wonder if there could be an issue with the rights to reprint. Still, I bet it would sell.
Doesn't Paizo own the art? (Talking post-magazines here.)
Creative Director
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We do indeed own the vast majority of the art we use. I suspect we own ALL of it, but I'm not as familiar with the various artist contracts as I am with the author side of things.
IN any event, chances of us eventually doing an "Art of Pathfinder" type book, I would guess, are actually pretty solid. The time's not yet right for this, but if/when we do it, it'll be a coffee-table style big hardcover, I suspect, like what we did for the Art of Dragon a while back. Whether or not we release a PDF version of it, I can't say.
The art, in any event, is EASILY the most expensive part of the art + words stew that makes up a book. As a result, we're a bit more hesitant about giving the art away for "free" as electronic, high-res pictures.
It's okay to call me a pig on this count; I've accepted this about myself.
EDIT: Offer limited to the Chief. Oink.
The art, in any event, is EASILY the most expensive part of the art + words stew that makes up a book. As a result, we're a bit more hesitant about giving the art away for "free" as electronic, high-res pictures.
Not looking for free, but hopefully a fraction of the full product cost. Or is there a piracy or some other concern here I'm missing?
If Paizo did do an electronic "Art of Second Darkness" (or another AP), what would it cost roughly? To buy the pdfs for the full AP, it's $84 MSRP. Would it be around $40 for just the art? Less? Would be better for Paizo to only release art that's older than a certain date? (giving full product owners an advantage)
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Creative Director
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If Paizo did do an electronic "Art of Second Darkness" (or another AP), what would it cost roughly? To buy the pdfs for the full AP, it's $84 MSRP. Would it be around $40 for just the art? Less? Would be better for Paizo to only release art that's older than a certain date? (giving full product owners an advantage)
I have no idea, honestly. An electronic artbook is not something we've ever considered or thought of. And we'd be concerned about devauling the actual rulebook PDFs as well.
And we'd be concerned about devaluing the actual rulebook PDFs as well.
Absolutely understood.
I'd actually like a daily desk calendar. I'd easily buy this every year (even knowing that half or more would be art from the previous year).
+1
I'd buy a PDF, probably not a coffee table book. Mainly though I'd be buying it to use the art as character pictures in games. Not sure if that's the reason Paizo would be hesitant to sell it PDF though.
I've found that if you give someone a picture of an NPC or of their character, they tend to react more with roleplay to them over rollplay, and also remember them a lot better.
I keep a whole disk full of stuff just for that purpose. Obviously I don't upload it to the intarwebb (don't want to plug the tubes). :) But it's a godsend for me to have a huge pile for players and myself alike to root through. I've had players go through it looking and see something and go 'OOH! I'm gonna build that, that looks like a <insert mismashed idea>'.
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I'd actually like a daily desk calendar. I'd easily buy this every year (even knowing that half or more would be art from the previous year).
I actually tried to do this last year.. there's had all of the art ready, but couldn't find a good program to make the actual pages withouy renumbering each by hand and adjusting the pic for this month the same way...
Just a quick question?
What's wrong with holding up your copy of whatever book and showing the picture that way? Too old-school?
More that I don't like tossing my books around, holding them up at the game. I've dropped one too many and damaged them (torn pages, creases, peanut butter stains). I realize that would be good for Paizo (me buying new ones) but it's hard on me. :)
Besides, I also usually, if someone is using them, embed the picture in their character sheet as a picture, so when they print it out, they have all their stats plus their picture. :)
PCGen specifically let's you put a picture with the character and print it out. Makes a nice character sheet that way, and easy to tell which one it is at 5 paces.
Plus, I usually print the picture and put it in my notes. I carry a huge 3 ring binder with dice printed on it with all my notes for the game inside.
Just a quick question?
What's wrong with holding up your copy of whatever book and showing the picture that way? Too old-school?
Shhhh! Paizo makes Face Cards. You know there's a market for people who aren't willing to hold up the book to show a picture.
I personally like to print out the images of big scary monsters and paperclip them to my DM screen once the players meet the monster. I'll leave it paperclipped there as a reminder of what they faced until they get to the next monster that will replace it. Leaving it there after the battle helps embed the memory of the monster in their minds.
I've just done this for the last few big guys they've fought, but I definitely like doing it. Currently there's a gloom golem paperclipped to my DM screen, as well as a picture of the Lost Refuge. (From Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave.)
I'm similar to those above me. I like to integrate images into different handouts for players, be it character sheets, notes with "sketches" of who/what they're after, or enlarged printouts.
For example:
Pathfinder Society Scenario #34 [SPOILERS]
Regarding the calendar, I think that's an awesome idea as well. You could even go as far as including things like, "On This Day in Golarion," including Golarion holidays, and perhaps even giving out special minor boons for Society play on special days (Pathfinder Society Founders Day or on other special Pathfinder Society days/events).
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Chief Technical Officer
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I'll tell you all now, when it comes to this product, I'm the one that's going to need to be convinced that it's a good idea. I've been in the industry for 15 years, and customers are always clamoring for art books, yet every time we do one, the sales are pretty much always disappointing. Kind of like requests for T-Shirts that aren't black—everybody says they want them, but nobody actually buys them.
Some of you might remember that we did an Art of Dragon book while we were still publishing the magazines. That's actually one of the most successful art books I've ever had any involvement with... but the fact that we still have inventory on it several years after we lost the magazine license should tell you something. And I fully expect that the Art of Pathfinder would be a harder sell than an official D&D product was a few years ago.
I don't think I can convince you of this book. I'm not sure I'd buy it. I know that the best shot would be making it a coffee-table book. Something that gives me all art in an attractive format.
A digital book would have virtually no chance of getting my money, though. I already got that, in a way. I have all my Paizo stuff as PDFs, and you can extract pictures from PDFs.
I love buying art books for game lines that have art I like. I have almost al of the D&D art books (including Paizo's Art of the Dragon), as well as many of the Games Workshop art books.
I would definitely buy a Paizo art book and calendar.
However, if they haven't sold well for Paizo in the past, then I definitely understand being hesitant to sink money into publishing another one.
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I'll tell you all now, when it comes to this product, I'm the one that's going to need to be convinced that it's a good idea. I've been in the industry for 15 years, and customers are always clamoring for art books, yet every time we do one, the sales are pretty much always disappointing. Kind of like requests for T-Shirts that aren't black—everybody says they want them, but nobody actually buys them.
So do a preorder thing like the tshirts to get a survey?
Some of you might remember that we did an Art of Dragon book while we were still publishing the magazines. That's actually one of the most successful art books I've ever had any involvement with... but the fact that we still have inventory on it several years after we lost the magazine license should tell you something. And I fully expect that the Art of Pathfinder would be a harder sell than an official D&D product was a few years ago.
I'd have bought it, but it doesn't have the one piece of art I've been clamoring to get for years, Dungeon 143.
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I'll tell you all now, when it comes to this product, I'm the one that's going to need to be convinced that it's a good idea. I've been in the industry for 15 years, and customers are always clamoring for art books, yet every time we do one, the sales are pretty much always disappointing. Kind of like requests for T-Shirts that aren't black—everybody says they want them, but nobody actually buys them.
Some of you might remember that we did an Art of Dragon book while we were still publishing the magazines. That's actually one of the most successful art books I've ever had any involvement with... but the fact that we still have inventory on it several years after we lost the magazine license should tell you something. And I fully expect that the Art of Pathfinder would be a harder sell than an official D&D product was a few years ago.
Personally I would still rather have a pdf version with high res larger versions of each of the pics that already exist. How much I would be willing to pay would depend a lot on how big and the quality of the pictures. But I would want to buy such a thing. With Paizo already owning the art and if it was just a PDF zip folder the cost for Paizo should be low.
Maybe do a test of RotL one and see how it does.
Just a quick question?
What's wrong with holding up your copy of whatever book and showing the picture that way? Too old-school?
Shhhh! Paizo makes Face Cards. You know there's a market for people who aren't willing to hold up the book to show a picture.
I personally like to print out the images of big scary monsters and paperclip them to my DM screen once the players meet the monster. I'll leave it paperclipped there as a reminder of what they faced until they get to the next monster that will replace it. Leaving it there after the battle helps embed the memory of the monster in their minds.
I've just done this for the last few big guys they've fought, but I definitely like doing it. Currently there's a gloom golem paperclipped to my DM screen, as well as a picture of the Lost Refuge. (From Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave.)
I was doing exactly this for awhile and quit doing it for some reason. I am glad I seen this post, reminds me that I need to do this again. I am not the greatest role-playing GM there is out there, so I think this really helps get the players into the game, or " embed the memory of the monster in their minds."
I'll tell you all now, when it comes to this product, I'm the one that's going to need to be convinced that it's a good idea. I've been in the industry for 15 years, and customers are always clamoring for art books, yet every time we do one, the sales are pretty much always disappointing. Kind of like requests for T-Shirts that aren't black—everybody says they want them, but nobody actually buys them.
Some of you might remember that we did an Art of Dragon book while we were still publishing the magazines. That's actually one of the most successful art books I've ever had any involvement with... but the fact that we still have inventory on it several years after we lost the magazine license should tell you something. And I fully expect that the Art of Pathfinder would be a harder sell than an official D&D product was a few years ago.
For what its worth I would definitely buy an art book. I understand what you are saying though.
I don't think I can convince you of this book. I'm not sure I'd buy it. I know that the best shot would be making it a coffee-table book. Something that gives me all art in an attractive format.
A digital book would have virtually no chance of getting my money, though. I already got that, in a way. I have all my Paizo stuff as PDFs, and you can extract pictures from PDFs.
I have to agree. A digital version seems almost useless. A coffee table book with perhaps some new material could very well get my dough
Vic, for what it's worth, I have a copy of the Art of D&D. I enjoy the examples of the art that I missed early on.
Just my 2 cp.
I might buy a book like this, simply because I like art.
Does Paizo submit art to Spectrum? Spectrum.
I picked up a copy of Spectrum 19 yesterday at Barnes and Noble. There was quite a bit of art from WotC in it as well. It would be great to see some of the best art from Paizo in an issue as well.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I'll tell you all now, when it comes to this product, I'm the one that's going to need to be convinced that it's a good idea. I've been in the industry for 15 years, and customers are always clamoring for art books, yet every time we do one, the sales are pretty much always disappointing. Kind of like requests for T-Shirts that aren't black—everybody says they want them, but nobody actually buys them.So do a preorder thing like the tshirts to get a survey?
Yeah... turns out that survey idea was horrible. For those of you who weren't around, we put up a bunch of T-shirt designs, and asked people to tell us which ones they'd buy—"really," we said, "don't say you'll buy it unless you'll really buy it"—and then once we had enough interest in a design, we'd make it. Well, we got enough interest to make all of them, and then we asked people to go ahead and place the orders like they said they would... and only a tiny fraction of the folks who said they would order actually ordered. Seriously, the actual orders were not even close to the number we'd been told to expect. Sales on one design in particular were so low that we ended up having to cancel it. We made the other two, but we had to drop the print run size below our original target, so financially, they were barely worthwhile.
I don't think we'll ever trust non-committal product interest surveys again.
Now, we could ask people to actually place preorders instead of just asking them to promise to, but I'm always hesitant to ask people to order things that may not ever exist. For one thing, if it doesn't happen, than we have to disappoint folks. And then there are always the customer service issues that come up from people who don't understand preorders, like the folks who think we charged them when they ordered and start demanding refunds (even though we never charge until we ship)...
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Chief Technical Officer
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I'll give you another reason why I'm resistant to art books for Pathfinder in particular: because we designate our rules content as Open Game Content under the OGL, that means that other folks can republish all of our rules for free. Take the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook—you can get everything you really need to play out of that book for free online.
So, since you can get the rules content for free, we need to give you some reasons to buy the product that they came from—especially in the Pathfinder RPG line, where the books are almost all rules. And that's one big reason why we don't generally make the art available outside the products—art is one of the few things that you can currently only get by buying the products, in most cases.
Yeah... turns out that survey idea was horrible. For those of you who weren't around, we put up a bunch of T-shirt designs, and asked people to tell us which ones they'd buy—"really," we said, "don't say you'll buy it unless you'll really buy it"—and then once we had enough interest in a design, we'd make it. Well, we got enough interest to make all of them, and then we asked people to go ahead and place the orders like they said they would... and only a tiny fraction of the folks who said they would order actually ordered. Seriously, the actual orders were not even close to the number we'd been told to expect. Sales on one design in particular were so low that we ended up having to cancel it. We made the other two, but we had to drop the print run size below our original target, so financially, they were barely worthwhile.
I think a lot has to do with the cost of the t-shirts. Personally, I would love to have a Pathfinder shirt from the poster where it says 3.5 thrives. If possible, could any of us put something like that on a shirt for ourselves as long as it isn't done for profit or distribution? *shrug* Probably not, but it would be cool to have and used as a talking point for those not familiar.
So, since you can get the rules content for free, we need to give you some reasons to buy the product that they came from—especially in the Pathfinder RPG line, where the books are almost all rules.
I like the "You get a book made out of processed trees" part of the deal.
And the PDF is, in many ways, better than the web page.
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Oh c'mon Vic,
Entice us. Offer the largest most complete poster of Golarion that we have ever seen including the unknown continent that is Tian Xia. You could finally put all those little dots and names down. Then you can reference the art to the locations in the world. Throw in a PaizoCon 2011 ticket with every purchase. You know we will thank you for forcing us to buy it. We gamers love icebreakers such as this before we get creepy on newbies to play our little game.