Agreed, I have been on the ugly end of a TWF Rogue's attacks, but when I play a Rogue I usually won't bother taking TWF until later levels when I have a high enough BAB to handle it and enough magical gear to still be able to hit something.
NOTE: However, the TWF guy does always have the option of putting one blade away if he is having trouble hitting a particular opponent and gaining a +2 to all his attacks. This is something a lot of guys don’t think about.
True indeed, you can always do both. Rather than wielding one of my 1D6 TWF weapons, I prefer quick drawing the Elven Curved Blade and going to town with Power Attack and Vital Strike.
My current rogue/fighter build is based off handaxes and an Elven Curved Blade. Quick Draw, Point Blank, Rapid Shot, Power Attack, Vital Strike. No matter the situation I can hold my own and assist the heavies.
Fighter/Rogue is usually a pretty strong combination. The Elven Curve Blade has a good Crit range too; it might be worth it for you to look into those feats that modify your Crit to do additional damage/effects. Since as a half Fighter you will both qualify for them easier and have the spare feats to pick them up.
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Personally I prefer being able to pick people apart from the shadows and know that there is relatively little they can do about it. For a Rogue type, if you are trying to go toe to toe and blow for blow with a heavy Fighter (Full Fighter) you are already starting off at a HUGE disadvantage. I would rather focus on Stealth and put him at a HUGE disadvantage to me. As a bonus it also makes it that much easier to sneak around the charging Fighter or Barbarian and dust the Wizard in the back. Dex and Stealth are just too valuable to a Rogue to be ignored IMO, especially if you get HiPS and a few other similar things. Plus I just think it is more fun but that all depends on your style of play.
Dex and Stealth are just too valuable to a Rogue to be ignored IMO, especially if you get HiPS and a few other similar things. Plus I just think it is more fun but that all depends on your style of play.
Isn't HiPS a Ranger-only ability in PF?
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I took a level of Wizard [specialist Transmuter, free +1 bonus to a Physical Stat], and I gained +2 to will saves [class], +2 to Fort saves [Rat familiar]. Instant access to Arcane magic. Well worth the level imo. If your DM will allow it consider Practised Spellcaster Feat as this will make you a 5th level caster and you'll be able to scribe Shield at a higher level [longer duration] plus spells like Cat's Grace, Protection from Evil [mind control is your friend!], Mirror Image & Fireball!
Pump your Acrobatics to tumble into flanking positions and save up to buy Boots of Speed [you will never regret it].
With your Dex bonus [cat's grace] and Mage Armour & Shield, plus Protection from Evil, you're not going to get hit hardly ever and you can always go with some Mirror Images or Invisibility if you really need to.
Hey Stuart.....Practiced Spellcaster doesn't make you a 5th level caster. It makes your caster level a 5 which is useful for spell durations, damage dice and DCs but it doesn't give you additional spells. You would still be 1st level Wizard with only the spells a 1st level wizard has.
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Personally I prefer being able to pick people apart from the shadows and know that there is relatively little they can do about it. For a Rogue type, if you are trying to go toe to toe and blow for blow with a heavy Fighter (Full Fighter) you are already starting off at a HUGE disadvantage. I would rather focus on Stealth and put him at a HUGE disadvantage to me. As a bonus it also makes it that much easier to sneak around the charging Fighter or Barbarian and dust the Wizard in the back. Dex and Stealth are just too valuable to a Rogue to be ignored IMO, especially if you get HiPS and a few other similar things. Plus I just think it is more fun but that all depends on your style of play.
I agree totally. I'm not really interested in standing toe to toe with the fighter, but I would like to be more than helpless when I can't sneak attack.
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Isn't HiPS a Ranger-only ability in PF?Dex and Stealth are just too valuable to a Rogue to be ignored IMO, especially if you get HiPS and a few other similar things. Plus I just think it is more fun but that all depends on your style of play.
Yeah and level 17 ranger at that. Not really feasible in a rogue build.....hmmmm...The stealthy rogue class doesn't get something similar.....that seems to be a glaring omission.
Isn't HiPS a Ranger-only ability in PF? Yeah and level 17 ranger at that. Not really feasible in a rogue build.....hmmmm...The stealthy rogue class doesn't get something similar.....that seems to be a glaring omission.
Yep, the fact that any git can find traps via a Perception check and a Ranger can Stealth in plain sight (albeit at a HIGH level)causes some annoyance to those playing Rogues. Not a deal-breaker, for sure, but perplexing.
Isn't HiPS a Ranger-only ability in PF?
There is also the Assassin and Shadowdancer options for obtaining HiPS.
Hey Stuart.....Practiced Spellcaster doesn't make you a 5th level caster. It makes your caster level a 5 which is useful for spell durations, damage dice and DCs but it doesn't give you additional spells. You would still be 1st level Wizard with only the spells a 1st level wizard has.I took a level of Wizard [specialist Transmuter, free +1 bonus to a Physical Stat], and I gained +2 to will saves [class], +2 to Fort saves [Rat familiar]. Instant access to Arcane magic. Well worth the level imo. If your DM will allow it consider Practised Spellcaster Feat as this will make you a 5th level caster and you'll be able to scribe Shield at a higher level [longer duration] plus spells like Cat's Grace, Protection from Evil [mind control is your friend!], Mirror Image & Fireball!
Pump your Acrobatics to tumble into flanking positions and save up to buy Boots of Speed [you will never regret it].
With your Dex bonus [cat's grace] and Mage Armour & Shield, plus Protection from Evil, you're not going to get hit hardly ever and you can always go with some Mirror Images or Invisibility if you really need to.
Yes, I know! I didn't put it very well, sorry!
It also allows you to scribe and cast up to 3rd level spells on scrolls.
Isn't HiPS a Ranger-only ability in PF?
Yeah and level 17 ranger at that. Not really feasible in a rogue build.....hmmmm...The stealthy rogue class doesn't get something similar.....that seems to be a glaring omission.
Actually, both the Assassin and the Shadowdancer, which are generally thought of as Rogue PrCs get (SU) HiPS. If you go with Shadowdancer you can get HiPS as soon as lvl 7 (lvl 6 Rogue/lvl 1 Shadowdancer). And that is just a strictly PF selection.
Yep, the fact that any git can find traps via a Perception check and a Ranger can Stealth in plain sight (albeit at a HIGH level)causes some annoyance to those playing Rogues. Not a deal-breaker, for sure, but perplexing.
Any git could always find traps via Search as well, the Rogue was just far better at it and the only one capable of finding magical traps. The rogue is still far better at finding and disabling traps:
Trapfinding: A rogue adds 1/2 her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). A rogue can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.
They add 1/2 their class lvl to the skill and also are the only ones capable of disarming magic traps with Disable Device.
I agree totally. I'm not really interested in standing toe to toe with the fighter, but I would like to be more than helpless when I can't sneak attack.
I usually try to immobilize those I can't outright SA. You can't defend if you are paralyzed.
I like poison for the guys I can't SA too. Especially under the new PF system, poison is super nasty. If you are going with only PF core and cut out all the 3.5 stuff (like feats, weapon enchants) that deal with poison use, it is a little more dangerous (unless you go Assassin and get Poison Use that way) but still very devastating.
As to the person who said not to go diviner, diviner is hands down the best level 1 wizard specialist. Going in the surprise round always no matter what is incredible for anyone, for a rogue it's just icing on the cakeI would be among this group I think. I don't disagree that Diviner is a really good Specialist Wizard class to take. Those abilities are very nice for a Rogue. But it will largely depend on the build you go with for your Rogue. If you intend to be the one initiating most of the surprise rounds, then the Diviner power isn't going to come into play a whole lot.
It's been my experience that typically the monsters do the surprising. This might be different but typically you're invading their lair.
It's been my experience that typically the monsters do the surprising. This might be different but typically you're invading their lair.As to the person who said not to go diviner, diviner is hands down the best level 1 wizard specialist. Going in the surprise round always no matter what is incredible for anyone, for a rogue it's just icing on the cakeI would be among this group I think. I don't disagree that Diviner is a really good Specialist Wizard class to take. Those abilities are very nice for a Rogue. But it will largely depend on the build you go with for your Rogue. If you intend to be the one initiating most of the surprise rounds, then the Diviner power isn't going to come into play a whole lot.
That is if the creatures see you. If they don't see you, and assuming you are leading the party by at least 50 - 100 feet, then you will likely be the ambusher.
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Also, allow me to correct myself. I posted that you could get into the Shadowdancer class as early as lvl 7. That was actually incorrect. In some circumstances you can get into the class as early as lvl 6 (5 lvls Rogue/1 lvl Shadowdancer). So, you can have HiPS by lvl 6 with a possible base of around +24 to Stealth without any magical gear. Seems like the potential for a lot of surprise rounds.
Also, allow me to correct myself. I posted that you could get into the Shadowdancer class as early as lvl 7. That was actually incorrect. In some circumstances you can get into the class as early as lvl 6 (5 lvls Rogue/1 lvl Shadowdancer).
I noticed that.. I was just going to let that slide :) I figured you knew what you meant.
Haven´t followed the thread but, check out dervish dance (feat) from the Quadira book.
I don't have the book. Would you kindly post a copy of it here?
Agreed. Spring Attack is still a Move Action, so you only get one attack, regardless.
There's Boundless Assault and Rapid Blitz feats in Player's Handbook 2, they're exactly like Spring Attack except the former provides 2 attacks (same foe or 2 different ones) and the latter provides 3 (same foe, or 2 or 3 different ones).