haneth's page

haneth wrote:

In many cases, in a hostile dungeon, the creature(s) will know there are intruders, so I am working under that impression.

My goal with this question is to be able to lay down one ranged Sneak Attack, so that I can then move and set up a potential flanking position, so that I can lay down more Sneak Attacks.
I have the Rogue Talent 'Slow Reactions' which prevents an opponent from getting an AoO for one round if hit by a successful Sneak Attack. I have a Combat Melee Rogue build, so it's essential to not only be able to set up a Sneak Attack via Flanking (using Acrobatics, in many cases), but to also avoid an AoO when moving through threatened/occupied squares.

Make sense?

Sooo, I want to be able to open a door in stealth mode with a bow drawn (arrow knocked not important as that is integrated in the attack phase) and plunk the creature if it's within 30' for a Sneak Attack.

You need to catch your opponent flat-footed here to get your Sneak Attack. Therefore, you either have to gain a surprise round, or win initiative. The key here is being Stealthy enough (with opposed checks) so that your opponent is unaware of you right up to the point you initiate your attack.

You might be able to catch your opponent flat-footed without a surprise round here. You'd have to win initiative and then open the door and fire.

I don't think Slow Reaction is as beneficial to you as it is to your party. It only lasts 1 round beginning on your turn. Acrobatics will help you more with avoiding AoO's.

Well, if I get a Sneak Attack off with a ranged weapon and have Slow Reactions kick in, I'll be able to move through that creature's threatened/occupied (with a successful Acrobatics check) square (either this round or the next, depending on whether I've already moved or won initiative the next round)WITHOUT them getting an AoO. I'd say that is pretty significant, no?

In many cases, in a hostile dungeon, the creature(s) will know there are intruders, so I am working under that impression.
My goal with this question is to be able to lay down one ranged Sneak Attack, so that I can then move and set up a potential flanking position, so that I can lay down more Sneak Attacks.
I have the Rogue Talent 'Slow Reactions' which prevents an opponent from getting an AoO for one round if hit by a successful Sneak Attack. I have a Combat Melee Rogue build, so it's essential to not only be able to set up a Sneak Attack via Flanking (using Acrobatics, in many cases), but to also avoid an AoO when moving through threatened/occupied squares.

Make sense?

Sooo, I want to be able to open a door in stealth mode with a bow drawn (arrow knocked not important as that is integrated in the attack phase) and plunk the creature if it's within 30' for a Sneak Attack.

Let's say I am a Rogue in a party of adventurers who is about to open a door to a room with a nasty critter within. As a Rogue, I want to be able to open the door, peek in, observe the critter, step back, Stealth with my bow drawn, arrow knocked and then lean into the doorway firing off an arrow. The creature is within 30' and I have the Rogue Talent 'Slow Reaction' which will prevent the critter from being able to lay an AoO for one round if I hit as a Sneak Attack.

I'm thinking that the creature's awareness of me will have a bunch to do with what will happen.

-If the creature is aware and is waiting when I open the door, will it have surprise?

-If I duck back out, even after being attacked, do I have to Bluff in order to Stealth or is the fact that I am completely out of view enough to simply Stealth?

-I'm just trying to get a handle on how this all works...

Please help this poor soul understand the difference.

A character with Evasion is attacked by a spell that allows half damage on a successful save. Said character makes her save and takes no damage, but if she fails, she takes full damage.

A character with Improved Evasion would take no damage on a successful save, but would only take half if they fail their save.

Is this correct?

This is precisely why I have nearly eliminated Stealth from my Rogue's attack sequence. Acrobatics, Dex, Str, TWF, Weapon Focus/Finesse, etc. make a perfectly serviceable character that relies on flanks to set up sneak attacks. Otherwise, too much time is wasted in trying to Bluff/Feint/Imp Feint/Stealth and the penalties are too great in doing so. Not to mention that the Rogue is lucky to have a Standard Action left when all is said and done.

Isn't HiPS a Ranger-only ability in PF? Yeah and level 17 ranger at that. Not really feasible in a rogue build.....hmmmm...The stealthy rogue class doesn't get something similar.....that seems to be a glaring omission.

Yep, the fact that any git can find traps via a Perception check and a Ranger can Stealth in plain sight (albeit at a HIGH level)causes some annoyance to those playing Rogues. Not a deal-breaker, for sure, but perplexing.

Dex and Stealth are just too valuable to a Rogue to be ignored IMO, especially if you get HiPS and a few other similar things. Plus I just think it is more fun but that all depends on your style of play.

Isn't HiPS a Ranger-only ability in PF?

Monk does sound like what you want- Tip

Get Wis 18 when you build it (it improves AC like Dex does but makes Stunning fist good also)

Do you get to add Wisdom AND Dex to your AC/CMD as a Monk or just Wisdom?

The black raven wrote:

I believe that you are just 1-level away from hitting a big gap in power with your fighter and paladin friend.

When their BAB gets to 6 and they begin attacking twice.

Of course, you will get it a little later, but if you go for the feint you cannot make more than 1 attack a round, no matter how high your BAB is.

Thus, while feinting the improved way does not cost you much at low levels, it will end up costing you dearly later on.

To compensate for this, you will need the Vital Strike chain, which will need you to stack on Fighter levels, thus reducing your sneak damage (which will not be multiplied as it would with additional attacks anyway).

And no Spring Attack for you, as it is not compatible with the move action required by improved feint.

Personally I have always found Spring Attack to be over-rated. If I wanted to nail peeople without fear of being hurt, I would just use a ranged weapon. vital Strike is nice too, but my sneak attack can add +3d6 damage, whereas Vital Strike just doubles my regular damage.

Agreed. Spring Attack is still a Move Action, so you only get one attack, regardless.

I'm creating a combat Rogue. The conception of the character isn't a thief, but more of a scout: useful in combat with groups. I don't care about traps or locks, or anything like that. (I would post my character to this thread, but it's been closed.) My constraints are 20 points and 6th level, but don't let that constrain you in your comments.

5th level Rogue / 1st level Wizard - Human

STR 12, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 13
(+2 DEX for Human, +1 DEX for 4th level)

Feats: Weapon Finesse, 2 Weapon Fighting, Dodge, Mobility

Rogue Talents: Bleeding, Slow Reaction, Fast Stealth

Wizard Stuff: Favored school = Divination, familiar = viper

I have $10K to spend on items, so I'm buying an Elvish Cloak, Elvish Boots, and a +2 Dex belt.

The one level of wizard gives me the familiar (+3 bluff, or +3 stealth if I take a cat), the divination bonus of always being able to act in the surprise round, and the spells Shield (+4 AC), Mage Armor (another +4 AC), and Expeditious Retreat (double movement). Seems like a really good deal in exchange for 1 level of Rogue.

I wonder about taking Resiliency instead of one of the Rogue talents. And about taking Combat Expertise and Improved Feint instead of 2WF and one of the Rogue talents -- not sure which is more important. Slow Reaction seems redundant, given how easily I can avoid AoO. And how valuable is Bleeding, anyway?

Anything comments or reactions? Anything else I should be thinking about?

Or you could be a trip machine:

1st TWF (2 light weapons equals only a -2/-2 penalty, though it should be less, imo)
2nd Talent Weapon Focus
3rd Combat Expertise
4th Talent Weapon Finesse
5th Improved Disarm
6th Talent Bleeding

If you are relying on Flanks for Sneak Attacks, then pump Acrobatics and get some boots to up your speed (Boots of Striding and Springing). By 5th level, no more AoO for tripping and by 9th level, you can take Improved TWF and have 5 attacks a round. That's a good amount of potential Sneak Attack/Trip opportunities!

Allowing anyone, via a Perception roll, to detect traps (sorry if it was already mentioned).

It's a HUGE bonus to the party, but it strips the Rogue of being, well, a Rogue.

Played our first Pathfinder session last night and it was really fun!

It seems logical that if you receive a break on the penalties to hit with using a light weapon in your off hand, that you might get an additional break using a light weapon in your primary hand as well.

The real damage dealing Rogue would be the one that has climbed the Point Blank/Precise/Rapid/Many shot tree, who has a high str/dex and uses a magic comp str bow with a band of fellow party members willing to always set up the flank for the Rogue's sneak attack.
In that scenario, who needs Bluff or Stealth?

I found this response from a 2003 thread about whether or not Necromancers would be considered evil:

The morality of necromancers depends not only what is done by the necromancer but the morality and beliefs of the setting and the mechanics of how necromancy works.

In a fantasy setting where the afterlife is certain (as in most fantasy settings), the body could easily be seen as no more than clothes that a soul wears during life. If you can commune with great-great-great-great-uncle Thomas and he doesn't even know where his body is because he drowned at sea then the importance and sacrosanct nature of the body could easily change.

If, in this setting, animated skeletons and zombies are not bodies with souls bound to them but instead meat and bone that is infused with magical energy and programmed like a computer then there is no inherent reason why a necromancer's action should be considered evil. If the undead are sustained by magic and not by eating living people then there is no reason they couldn't perform a useful role in society. If they are mindless automatons following instructions then how are they any different from the robots that industry uses today ? For that matter if the undead were powered by captured souls, it wouldn't be any different from the slavery/serfdom that exists in most fantasy settings.

It does take away the mystique of the necromancer though. He's no more scary than the illusionist that makes a living entertaining the rich.

Necromancers are more interesting if they at least straddle the line between good and evil, if, within the setting, there are at least doubts and queries of the morality of necromancy.