Looking through the PFRPG at a very slow pace here, but I noticed that there isn't anything in the DCs of crafting items about increasing the DC if you don't meet a prerequisite, like there was in the Beta.
This is a tad problematic. The Master Craftsman feat, for example, explicitly mentions prereqs and DCs, but it references chapter 15, which appears to be silent on the matter. Without those rules, all a character with Master Craftsman can do on his own is straign +s to armor or weapons. He can't even craft a single wondrous item, as they all require some sort of spell (or, at least, most of them do).
What's the word on this? Am I going to have to whip out the Beta whenever a dwarf fighter wants to enhance his waraxe with the flaming property? Oh, and what's the actual craft DC? 5+ or 10+?
Errata? Jason? Bueller?
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Looking through the PFRPG at a very slow pace here, but I noticed that there isn't anything in the DCs of crafting items about increasing the DC if you don't meet a prerequisite, like there was in the Beta.
This is a tad problematic. The Master Craftsman feat, for example, explicitly mentions prereqs and DCs, but it references chapter 15, which appears to be silent on the matter. Without those rules, all a character with Master Craftsman can do on his own is straign +s to armor or weapons. He can't even craft a single wondrous item, as they all require some sort of spell (or, at least, most of them do).
What's the word on this? Am I going to have to whip out the Beta whenever a dwarf fighter wants to enhance his waraxe with the flaming property? Oh, and what's the actual craft DC? 5+ or 10+?
Errata? Jason? Bueller?
It is in there.
From the Creating Magic Items section of the PRD:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
Hadn't caught that it might allow bypassing caster level prereqs, too.
It's rather frustrating that this isn't nearly as clear as it could have been, as I was very much in favor of this line of item creation when they proposed it in the Beta. The idea of a fighter being able to craft a magic weapon really excites me overall...
Personally, I'd call 'the caster' the person who is enchanting the item.
I'd also say that the 'caster', if Level 10 and able to make a +2 sword with no problem, could not add +5 to the DC and make a +3 item simply because while he might have the skill, he does not have power required to make the item.
YMMV of course.
I use it with +5 DC if the crafter doesn't have the Caster Level (or equiv. threw craft ranks and Master Craftman) and another +5 DC if he does have the spell available.
So a 7th level Fighter (with the 7 ranks) can make a Giant Bane weapon at +10 DC or only +5 if a friend can supply the casting of Monster Summoning. Since most groups have characters of the same level the caster level of the spell source and the crafter should mostly be the same anyway. You shouldn't bypass all prerequisite in a single +5 penalty otherwise it would have been a shorter text.
I don't find it that confusing.
By RAW, you cannot create an item above your caster level. It's not in the item creation section, it's in the Magic Item Descriptions key under Caster Level. With emphasis:
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator's level).
Of course, I've house ruled that right out because it pretty much removes all possibility of cursed items ever being created unless there are Int-dumping high-level cleric and sorcerer NPCs who take item creation feats but zero ranks in Spellcraft.
Dunno if this has been answered, but your Craft skill counts as your effective CL. Very explicitly stated in the master craftsman feat. What I don't get is if you have to take Master Craftsman for every Craft skill. Do you have to take Master Craftsman for Craft(weapon) and Craft(armor) in order to make both weapons and armor? Craft(jewelry)? Etc...
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Hmm... *goes and checks the PRD*
Odd that this section doesn't mention the possibility of bypassing prerequisites for a higher DC at all. It does go into some detail on requirements and the possibility of multiple people working together to meet them, but it DOESN'T mention possible adjustment to the craft DC anywhere.
This IS circumstantial evidence that the CL requirement cannot be bypassed by adding to the DC on the grounds that the caster level stipulation is in a totally different sub heading than the one that discusses spell prerequisites... but the lack of any reference makes it seem more like an oversight than an intentional clarification.
On the other hand, I do agree with your other point: a skill check DC of 5 + X where X is a number no greater than your level is unfailable for most people. A failure cataclysmic enough to create cursed items is only possible with at least two five point penalties. By those rules, any cursed items would have to have been created deliberately.
And that doesn't answer the other question: is the DC +5 the cost of meeting a prerequisite through someone other than the crafter, or the cost of doing without a prerequisite entirely?
yeah, i'd love one of the designers to comment on the new rules about ignoring prerequisites by increasing the DC for crafting the item as it pertains to caster level restrictions on certain items. as written a wizard of 7th level can make +4 armor or a +4 sword with enough skill.
I think the designers are afraid to comment about it or correct themselves.i just run it that caster level is a requirement, not a pre-requisite. i think they didn't consider the ramifications well.
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This has recently become an issue in my campaign, as my players decided to take every item creation feat between themselves. Any word on a ruling? We've been playing it so that the CL counts and a prerequisite, and can be bypassed with the +5 to the DC. Now they are pumping out equipment that seems to be way too powerful (although inside the recommended character wealth for 11th level).
The latest ruling is in the Errata for Page 460.
The old text read:
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level).
The errata removed the last sentence.
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself.
I take that to mean that the caster level is derived from the spells required to make it and not a requirement by itself. The issue then becomes do you have to cast each of the necessary spells yourself or at least have a level capable of doing that?
Sigurd
I take that to mean that the caster level is derived from the spells required to make it and not a requirement by itself.
The CL of a lot of magical items is outright arbitrary.
The latest ruling is in the Errata for Page 460.
The old text read:
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level).
The errata removed the last sentence.
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself.
I take that to mean that the caster level is derived from the spells required to make it and not a requirement by itself. The issue then becomes do you have to cast each of the necessary spells yourself or at least have a level capable of doing that?
Sigurd
My interpretation is that weapons, armors, and wondrous items all have a caster level that is independent of the creator. For those items, caster level determines only 3 things, How difficult it was to create, how difficult it is to identify, and how difficult it is to dispel. Since the player has had to make a spellcraft roll of some difficulty, my guess is that the ritual possibly establishes a higher caster level than the creator might possess.
If you make pearl of power (level 1), the intricacy of the item is what gives it that caster level of 17. If someone later casts a dispel magic at it, they need to contend with that complex spellcraft design that the creator had to wrestle with as well.
In all likelyhood, the word "caster level" should have been changed because its operating independently of how caster level works with regards to spells. But hey, it it has been this way since 3.0, where they had to have a section in the FAQ to explicitly say "an items caster level is measure of its power, not a requirement in its creation".
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You know, this has been officially answered in this thread. Mr. Reynolds answers it, then a few posts later, reiterates his answer.
For those who don't want to link out:
Caster level is only a requirement if it is mentioned in the "Requirements" line of the magic item. For example, Amulet of Mighty Fists lists the caster level as a requirement. Pearl of Power does not (he specifically uses these two examples).
That seems pretty clear to me.
So, Caster Level is required for armor, weapons (these two items have a "special prerequisite" according to the RAW, and any item that specifically lists a CL in the Construction Requirements description.
Everything else does not consider CL to be a requirement.