omechron's page

Hmm... *goes and checks the PRD*

Odd that this section doesn't mention the possibility of bypassing prerequisites for a higher DC at all. It does go into some detail on requirements and the possibility of multiple people working together to meet them, but it DOESN'T mention possible adjustment to the craft DC anywhere.

This IS circumstantial evidence that the CL requirement cannot be bypassed by adding to the DC on the grounds that the caster level stipulation is in a totally different sub heading than the one that discusses spell prerequisites... but the lack of any reference makes it seem more like an oversight than an intentional clarification.

On the other hand, I do agree with your other point: a skill check DC of 5 + X where X is a number no greater than your level is unfailable for most people. A failure cataclysmic enough to create cursed items is only possible with at least two five point penalties. By those rules, any cursed items would have to have been created deliberately.

And that doesn't answer the other question: is the DC +5 the cost of meeting a prerequisite through someone other than the crafter, or the cost of doing without a prerequisite entirely?

I use it with +5 DC if the crafter doesn't have the Caster Level (or equiv. threw craft ranks and Master Craftman) and another +5 DC if he does have the spell available.

So a 7th level Fighter (with the 7 ranks) can make a Giant Bane weapon at +10 DC or only +5 if a friend can supply the casting of Monster Summoning. Since most groups have characters of the same level the caster level of the spell source and the crafter should mostly be the same anyway. You shouldn't bypass all prerequisite in a single +5 penalty otherwise it would have been a shorter text.

By what reasoning do you arrive at this interpretation?

You are correct that it does say "The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet." But, many magic items have multiple spell prerequisites. We cannot necessarily infer that the possibility of multiple bypassed prerequisites is to allow for the inclusion of the caster level.

Note that the passage that causes the problem opens with "Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions."...

From this, you could credibly argue that the +5 DC to bypass prerequisites rule only applies to prerequisites listed in the description field. The requirement to possess the requisite caster level ISN'T in the description field, its listed under the Magic Item Creation heading 80-some odd pages away from the item descriptions. It does list the caster level of each item in those descriptions, but not with the requirements. They're set apart from the requirements in the description just like the magic item's aura as revealed by a Detect Magic spell.

To be clear, I'm not saying your interpretation is necessarily wrong. I'm just saying that there are at least three possible, equally logical interpretations:

1) The DC goes up for each requirement the crafter cannot meet personally, meaning for each spell taken from another source. The caster level must be met to even try, since it does not say caster level requirements may be filled by proxy.

2) The DC goes up for each requirement the crafter cannot meet at all, meaning each spell totally missing. Spells taken from other sources do NOT effect the DC. The caster level must be met to even try, since the caster level requirement is not part of the prerequisites listed in the effect description.

3) The DC goes up for each requirement the crafter cannot meet at all, meaning each spell totally missing. Spells taken from other sources do NOT effect the DC. The caster level requirement may be bypassed as well by increasing the DC, since the caster level requirement is itself a prerequisite and subject to the same rule as the spell requirement.

All three possible conclusions are equally supported by the text, and I haven't seen any other passages that would seem to support one interpretation over another.

That's kind of where it gets sticky though:

Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite:

The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the
enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an
enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the
two caster level requirements must be met.

Thus, the caster level limitation is officially defined as a prerequisite.

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions.

These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created.
Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be
known by the item’s creator (although access through another
magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic
item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not
meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation
feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spelltrigger
and spell-completion magic items without meeting
their spell prerequisites.

This passage has caused the most interpretation confusion I've ever seen from any non-biblical source.

We're not totally sure whether "caster" refers to the person providing the spell, or the person making the craft check. Even if the "caster" is the person making the craft check, we're not sure if "prerequisites the caster does not meet" means "prerequisites the caster does not meet personally" or "prerequisites the caster does not meet at all".

Thus, either

The 5 DC penalty refers to prerequisites not met at all. Thus, we can totally blow off a prerequisite by adding 5 to the check, or substitute it from another source without effecting the check. Spell trigger/completion items can only be created through substitution, NOT by adding to the check.

-or-

The 5 DC penalty refers to prerequisites not met by the crafter personally. Thus, we can substitute a prerequisite from another source by adding 5 to the check. We can NOT blow it off ever. Spell trigger/completion items CANNOT be created through substitution ever.

...so, it seems to me that the answer is "You can make items above your caster level by adding an extra 5 to the DC... maybe."