Did you guys read about this in Wired Magazine; was facinating; silly scientologists broke the one rule to never break: Don't Feed The Trolls! The exploits of the trolls are facinating; sheesh; really wild stuff all as payback from various presumed attacks and tyrany from the Church of Scientology. We are talking serious stuff here; its an amazing read about social activism from anonymous poster to either affect change or get Lulz; very interesting read.
I frequently drive past protesters at the Seattle "center" wearing V for Vendetta masks and holding signs making fun of Xenu the Intergalactic Alien Master that is central to high-level Scientology teachings.
I didn't know they were still doing that. Good.
|
I frequently drive past protesters at the Seattle "center" wearing V for Vendetta masks and holding signs making fun of Xenu the Intergalactic Alien Master that is central to high-level Scientology teachings.
So there's plenty of meatspace opposition, too.
The level of shenanigans on both sides is hilarious.
haha- I just had a vision of the post-apocalypse Scientology compound besieged by classic D&D Trolls- scientologists in chrome body suits armed with electro prods driving back the horde, with Tom Cruise going all Col. Kurtz from his bouncy couch in the inner sanctum.
|
|
haha- I just had a vision of the post-apocalypse Scientology compound besieged by classic D&D Trolls- scientologists in chrome body suits armed with electro prods driving back the horde, with Tom Cruise going all Col. Kurtz from his bouncy couch in the inner sanctum.
That would make an awesome story, a la Piers Anthony!
I lost a lot of respect for Will Smith when he joined this science fiction novel turned 'celebrity fad'. I think they should drink the grape kool-aid and be done with it.
I lost a lot of respect for Will Smith when he joined this science fiction novel turned 'celebrity fad'. I think they should drink the grape kool-aid and be done with it.
*facepalm*
Question: Is directly mocking someone else's religion a violation of the message board policy? :(
In any event, I agree with the OP. This was a very bad tactical move on the part of the Scientoligist community.
This is all kinda old news on the Interwebz. But then again i saw yug seon cipe being dragged away from the accurate use of the word Cult to describe the Co$. Thank the other cult's Imagainary friend that Shami Chakrabarti, the great white hat politics hacker, happened to be riding by at the time. Her and the krewe from liberty pwned the city of london police and the scilons.
This is all kinda old news on the Intawebs. But then again i saw yug seon cipe being dragged away from the accurate use of the word Cult to describe the Co$. Thank the other cult's Imagainary friend that Shami Chakrabarti, the great white hat politics hacker, happened to be riding by at the time. Her and the krewe from liberty pwned the city of london police and the scilons.
I am sorry, I don't actually speak L33t. Can you try that again in English? :(
Question: Is directly mocking someone else's religion a violation of the message board policy? :(
In any event, I agree with the OP. This was a very bad tactical move on the part of the Scientoligist community.
Unfortunately, i believe it is.
Which is some what sad, as idea's should really not be afforded that kind of protection. If something is ridiculous, it should be open to ridicule. Doesn't matter if said idea is that L Ron. Hubbard was gifted with special knowledge that jesus walked on water and returned from the dead. Both are equally ridiclous to an outside observer, neither really deserve protection for any reason. Offence is being used as a form of censorship by both religions to prevent criticism.
But since Offence seens to be a valid way win arguments in the world these days, i would like to announce that it is my deeply held and faithful belief that i am the chosen one of Bob, he has made me the secret ruler of the world, with immense power. I am willing to induct you into the mystries of Bob, for a small donation, perferably in the form of PRPG products, though cashie money is also acceptable.
I am sorry, I don't actually speak L33t. Can you try that again in English? :(This is all kinda old news on the Intawebs. But then again i saw yug seon cipe being dragged away from the accurate use of the word Cult to describe the Co$. Thank the other cult's Imagainary friend that Shami Chakrabarti, the great white hat politics hacker, happened to be riding by at the time. Her and the krewe from liberty pwned the city of london police and the scilons.
This has been going for more than a year now, which in internet terms makes it almost makes it 'at least 100 years ago'. In other words, it has died down massively and isn't nearly as interesting to the 'oldfag anon' those Anonymous who's involvement with the protests was based on trollishness and LuLz.
I was at the morning half of Operation: Fair Game Stop in london, when the Anon know known as 'Epic noes guy' was arrested for holding up a sign, that if i remember correctly read, 'scientology is not a religion, it is a dangerous cult.' We were very lucky that Liberty, a UK based charity similar to the ACLU, became involved very quickly, which resulted in good media coverage and a own goal by both the city of london police and Scientlogy, aka Scilons and Co$. Shami Chakrabarti, the director of liberty even spoke on the subject, though this isn't entirely unexpected.
Better?
Scientology is acknowledged as a religion in the US - at least tax-wise. It is acknowledged in a few European countries as well. In Germany and France, it is seen as a sect. In Germany, the Verfassungsschutz (a federal office for the protection of the constitution - I guess it would be part of the FBI in the US.) has them on their watchlist, as they are seen as being probably opposed to some tenets of the German constitution - a "honor" they share with extreme right and left political parties and movements. So, their claim to be a religion can be seen as disputed, depending at which country you look.
But after all this, they seem rather small fish, and probably not worth too much hassle. I doubt they will get any momentum anytime soon.
Stefan
A tax-exempt non-profit organization(in the US) that requires you to make "donations" in large sums in order to reach spiritual enlightenment.
Sounds all very Jim Bakker, Cleric of Abadar to me.
*smacks person on the forehead*
"You're healed, make your payme... err DONATION on the way out! Halleluja!"
And where does a non-profit organization spend hundreds of thousands of dollars DONATED for spiritual enlightenment courses and training?
Wait a minute. You get to take their money, tax free? And you get to HIT them?
Well, when you say it like that... I know a 7th level rogue that I think might need to make a donation or two, he's been in training for quite some time now, lol.
Well, for what it is worth; my look into Scientology ended up with them being more a business and tax shelter than a religion. The entire battle between the trolls and the scientologist was all about tryany; repression and banning free expression. Considering that the scientologists reputedly attack anyone who says anything remotely negative about them and has a vast number of court cases banning various web sites and the like; while most of us just say, whatever, there are somepeople, the trolls, who love reactionism and arent gonna sit still for someone attempting to ban thier desire to poke fun in the most raunchy and outlandish ways. The trolls dont seem to be able to put together a legal arguement and their attempts to appear before city councils to ban new scientoligist buildings was a failure in which the scientologists poked fun right back at them; some quotes I read from the scientologists where like "hey, do you guys need a fire extiguisher" Trolls: say what? Scientologits: "you guys are going down in flames". and more like that.
Like I said; "dont feed the trolls" Three million people flaming any groups is a social movement. I find it exceptional that they are just a bunch of splinter groups with a common theme but no goals and no organization; well, other than the lawfully stages pickets where a few thousand of them showed up.
I dont have any particular feeling for either group; but this is one interesting social experiment. Scientologists rhetoric vs Anon flamers. This is only viewed as social experiment but us; to them its just a flame war; constant escallation; yep deadly Pride; pure and simple hehe like anything is pure and simple.
I am with the Shiny one; I am chuckling at both sides.
Yeah, quite a bit, and I can't stand these guys. They had a sizeable office right across from UT campus in Austin when I lived there, and never failed to creep me out on a daily basis, with their free IQ/Personality Test that was a hook to start selling you on their various derangements. However it was a funny diversion, way the hell back then, to go in with friends and wait for the 'impromptu' lecture to begin and ask them really screwy questions, mostly related to Subgenii literature. I assume from your Bob reference you know the material and the fun that can be had with it.
Enough friendly B.S., though, because there is one thing here that really bothers me. Since you seem up on the ins and outs of anti-scientology activities, what qualifies one belief system as a 'dangerous cult' over any other? I'm curious what the criteria was for the guy with the sign. I mean, I hold that view of most belief systems, really, and I know I'm not alone, so... who gets to decide? Is it based sheerly on litigiousness? By the way I agree with this:
To be honest its not the beliefs that has got people so bothered its the lengths they go to enforce them. Take a look at the lists of crime they are at trial for and have been convicted for the list includes homicide, torture, kidnapping, extortion, assault, brainwashing, burglary, infiltration of a federal building, fraud its rather scary reading:
http://www.scientology-lies.com/crimesindex.html
Scientology used to even have a specific espionage division, say what will about the catholic church but I don't think they had their own James Bond division, though I have just got the greatest mental image of the pope doing the opening scene from Goldeneye.
Saying that I'd have no real problem with the beliefs, there rather ridiculous but if someone genuinely believes it then fine, I can disagree but I don't begrudge them their beliefs.
Any religion that requires you to pay to gain deeper knowledge seems like less of a religion and more of a profit making enterprise.
Kind of a quasi-spiritual pyramid scheme for delusional sociopaths... a scam, by any other name, still smells like troll funk.... Maybe that's what's attracting the trolls...
How is that Sebastian is not involved in this? (Or is he?)
Take a look at the lists of crime they are at trial for and have been convicted for the list includes homicide, torture, kidnapping, extortion, assault, brainwashing, burglary, infiltration of a federal building, fraud its rather scary reading:Scientology used to even have a specific espionage division.
Perhaps he is, perhaps he is the reincarnation of Ron L. Hubbard, wow a way for Sebastian to become even more of a terror inspiring creature. And maybe we can get another Starship Troopers book out of it.
Perhaps he is, perhaps he is the reincarnation of Ron L. Hubbard, wow a way for Sebastian to become even more of a terror inspiring creature. And maybe we can get another Starship Troopers book out of it.
Two things:
L. Ron Hubbard, not Ron L. Hubbard.
Starship Troopers was written by Robert A. Heinlein.
L. Ron was a failed scifi writer, who only got on bestseller lists later in life because his minions bought his books off the shelves and then resold them to the bookstores they bought them from.(I remember seeing a news expose showing the books being unwrapped in the bookstore with the bookstore's price stickers already affixed.)
|
Well Scientology here in Greece is recognized as a dangerous cult by the church.Think about that. The church finds another religion to be dangerous?:) That's a real novelty. What other opinion are they going to have?
On another note, what do you think the various religions that predated 'the church' considered them to be when they showed up on the scene?
I'm just saying, I think it's BS, too... but it's no more hokey-sounding than anything else would be if you just started hearing about it in your lifetime, and there is no less (or more) reason to believe it's true. The only reason everyone is comfy throwing rocks at it is because it's new, and that's the only reason it sounds so ridiculous in comparison to the material you've heard all of your life from 'the church'. 'The church', in all it's varying forms and mutations, has been separating people from their money (and now and then their lives, their dignity, etc) for thousands of years, but that's a violation of social mores to point out. Give it a thousand years and this will be the same.
Hell, give it a generation. All it takes is a good crop of people who got raised that way to get offended. When it's Tom Cruise it's one thing, because he up and chose it. When it's his kids and the kids they grow up with you'll be learning how to be more sensitive;)
My opinion: it should ALL be fair game, or none of it should be.
Anyhow...
Actually the reason it sounds full of crap is not because it's new, but because if you do the research, the person who founded the religion was a noted science fiction writer, who had been quoted by personal friends as saying "I want to get into religion, that's where the money is" and whose religion is based on the idea that most modern medicine is fraudulent and medication is bad which they have replaced with a series of "contact cures" which if you once again follow the research the founder died on several medications for his problems.
So it's a religion where the founder is known to both a) have stated previously that he wanted in religion for monetary reasons, b) actually have you pay for every one of their services, d) the same founder didn't actually practice.
That's what makes it silly. If jesus christ had been quoted saying, "religion I've gotta get into that for the money" and then the church required tithes instead of requesting them to perform mass, I'd have a lot more problems with christianity.
Good litmus test that I learned, go to a person with a table of christian literature who's trying to convert people (i.e. not someone just selling religious paraphanalia) and ask to look over their material and start reading, they'll let you read it and often send you off with a free bible (I have done this before and have a couple of bibles as a result). Now go to a table with scientologists doing the same thing, they'll give you a free personality test. But when it comes to their literature, they'll stop you from reading it and tell you that they're actually selling it. I'm not talking about books about the religion, but rather their equivalent of a bible.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
|
Any religion that requires you to pay to gain deeper knowledge seems like less of a religion and more of a profit making enterprise.So what was 'tithing', and what was the general opinion of a catholic who didn't tithe back about 30 years ago?:) What about all the Protestant churches that organize 'retreats' (that do cost money) to gain exactly that: more enlightenment? That would include John Hagee's whole ministry (you pay to learn to speak in tongues while you're at his Bible camp), and most of the Southern Baptist conference these days.
I'm not arguing with you. I stand by my statement: Any religion that requires you to pay to gain deeper knowledge seems like less of a religion and more of a profit making enterprise. Hagee is as much a scam as Scientology. I'm in favor of removing all religion's tax-exempt status and forcing them to be subject to the exact same laws as any citizen.
That being said, as for tithing, it doesn't limit your access to god. It is considered part of your obligation to god. Retreats don't stop your spiritual growth if you don't attend, you're still free to read the bible. Scientology actually stops your 'spiritual progress' if you don't pay. That's a clear profit-making enterprise. No cash, no riddance of those pesky thetans.
|
On the other hand, Scientology seems to be all about the money. I don't believe there's any church, mosque, synagogue, or Buddhist temple in the country that will actually sling me out if I don't walk in waving a check made out to them whenever I show up. They'll definitely appreciate a donation, but they're not into selling admission tickets at the door when they're holding a service, either, which is pretty much what Scientology involves, isn't it?
Yep, that is pretty much the case. The aunt and uncle I mentione previous spend about two grand a month buying and paying for all theclasses and books scientology requires you to have to "get clear" and transcend this world. And that doesn't even include the e-meter sessions, which are about a grand a session.
|
|
Yep, that is pretty much the case. The aunt and uncle I mentione previous spend about two grand a month buying and paying for all theclasses and books scientology requires you to have to "get clear" and transcend this world. And that doesn't even include the e-meter sessions, which are about a grand a session.On the other hand, Scientology seems to be all about the money. I don't believe there's any church, mosque, synagogue, or Buddhist temple in the country that will actually sling me out if I don't walk in waving a check made out to them whenever I show up. They'll definitely appreciate a donation, but they're not into selling admission tickets at the door when they're holding a service, either, which is pretty much what Scientology involves, isn't it?
Don't let them see this thread, they'll sue you and not let you live for free lol. Just kidding, I'm sure like most scientologists I've met they're perfectly nice people who got pursuaded in, and don't represent the organization itself.
There is an excellent book on the organization and its history available in full online here.
I highly recommend it for anyone interested in the topic.
Here is a good tenant to remember when deciding whether an organization is a religion or not.
"Salvation is free, only man asks for money".
very interesteing; thanks.
There is an excellent book on the organization and its history available in full online here.
I highly recommend it for anyone interested in the topic.
|
I frequently drive past protesters at the Seattle "center" wearing V for Vendetta masks and holding signs making fun of Xenu the Intergalactic Alien Master that is central to high-level Scientology teachings.
So there's plenty of meatspace opposition, too.
Heresy! Xenu is going to use you all for a pin cushion...
In other news, yellowdingo started a religion that doesnt charge for membership but accepts donations to pursue the Church's charitable activities. :)
AN INTRODUCTION TO THE CHURCH OF UNIVERSAL TRUTHThe Church Of Universal Truth was created on the Internet. And for those prepared to comment on its primitive beginnings, it was considered by many as a Joke and consequently ridiculed and insulted. It was however not a Joke but a subtle inroad into the hearts and minds of the vulnerable; People who were in need of a new reality based entirely on a Doctrine of Truth.
A DOCTRINE OF TRUTH
String Theory invalidates Religion and Evolution.
The Universe is Debris of Change in Possibility.
Time is continuous Change in Possibility.
The Singularity is Point of Change in Possibility.
Only Life can create change in Possibility, and only from outside the Universe.Politics and Wealth being inevitable in a failed understanding of the Universe, We must consider both the Political Financial as a potential extension of any Doctrine of Truth that they not become conflicted. It is therefore necessary to ensure that a Political Agenda conform to a Doctrine of Truth.
A POLITICAL AGENDA
Every Act of Government, Law, Constitution, and Sovereign shall require the direct and regular approval of Every Citizen.Likewise we must ensure that the Church has a financial policy that preserves that Agenda and protects the Church from the misuse of both. It becomes necessary to establish rules regarding Membership Fees and Donations.
DONATIONS
Donations will be the only accepted source of Church Income and said funds shall be directed toward:
(a) the Construction of Urban High-rise Barracks to provide housing for Nurses, Doctors, Police men, Ambulance Medics, Firemen, and the Homeless and unemployed who will be provided as priority Jobs and Training (see section b) and;
(b) The Construction of an urban high-rise Farm for the purpose of employing and training the Homeless and unemployed in Dairy work and Fish-farming in a Technologically Modern Urban Environment.With Donations being the only source of acceptable income, the Church of Universal Truth can ensure that its membership is open to all.
MEMBERSHIP
FEES
Membership in the Church of Universal Truth shall carry no financial burden on any who would be a member of the Church of Universal Truth. Thus there shall be no Membership Fees.ESTABLISHING A CHAPTERHOUSE OR DIOCESE
Anyone may establish a Chapterhouse or Diocese of the Church of Universal Truth and that a Chapterhouse or Diocese shall have a Synod Council consisting of all members of that Chapter House or Diocese conforming to all the obligations of membership in the Church of Universal Truth without question. Such a Chapterhouse or Diocese shall be limited to a Single Nation.
A Chapterhouse or Diocese may collect Donations according to the rules of the Church of Universal Truth and direct the use of those finances toward the Economic policies of the Church of Universal Truth.