Kitsune in Golarion?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


Okay, so I've read passing references to kitsune in the Dragons Revisited book and in the Golarion campaign guide. Have they been mentioned anywhere else? Hopefully with game stats?

And if they haven't, is there any intention to ever stat them up -- and would they be done as a PC race (like the 2nd edition hengeyokai) or as a creature more like the 2nd ed. Foxwoman of Hu Hsien?

Thanks for any help.

Dark Archive

I don't know that they have been stated anywhere. Hopefully they will be soon.


While I don't know that Paizo has given them any stats yet, Kitsune were detailed as a 4th Edition race in Kobold Quarterly #9 and you can find the 3rd Edition Kitsune on the Kobold Quarterly website. Seeing as PFRPG is 3.5 compatible, it shouldn't take much work to convert this version.


Eric Hinkle wrote:

Okay, so I've read passing references to kitsune in the Dragons Revisited book and in the Golarion campaign guide. Have they been mentioned anywhere else? Hopefully with game stats?

And if they haven't, is there any intention to ever stat them up -- and would they be done as a PC race (like the 2nd edition hengeyokai) or as a creature more like the 2nd ed. Foxwoman of Hu Hsien?

Thanks for any help.

While not officially PFRPG, the resource "Kitsunemori" is a wonderful resource for Kitsune PC's. It's a bit heavy on crunch in places, and the setting is distinctly NOT Golarion. But... well... Kitsune!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

I have these guys in my homebrew game (although I believe they're called something like "kitsunejin" or something like that... can't remember), so chances of them getting into Golarion at some point are pretty good (although probably tied to whenever we do our Asia stuff).

Until then, there's always the vulpinal agathion from "The Great Beyond," of course.


James Jacobs wrote:

I have these guys in my homebrew game (although I believe they're called something like "kitsunejin" or something like that... can't remember), so chances of them getting into Golarion at some point are pretty good (although probably tied to whenever we do our Asia stuff).

Until then, there's always the vulpinal agathion from "The Great Beyond," of course.

A tie between earth-bound kitsune and the vulpinals would be sweet. :)


Lilith wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

I have these guys in my homebrew game (although I believe they're called something like "kitsunejin" or something like that... can't remember), so chances of them getting into Golarion at some point are pretty good (although probably tied to whenever we do our Asia stuff).

Until then, there's always the vulpinal agathion from "The Great Beyond," of course.

A tie between earth-bound kitsune and the vulpinals would be sweet. :)

Well, according to legend, there are 'celestial' kitsune in Japan who serve the god/dess Inari...

And yes, I'd like sly fox angels, or even nasty fox demons like a Korean kumiho.

And thanks for reminding me about TGB and its agathion.


Eric Hinkle wrote:

Well, according to legend, there are 'celestial' kitsune in Japan who serve the god/dess Inari...

And yes, I'd like sly fox angels, or even nasty fox demons like a Korean kumiho.

And thanks for reminding me about TGB and its agathion.

Indeed - tales of nine-tailed foxes are certainly popular these days, and the fox woman is prevalent in mythology as well.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I am so totally going to blow you guys (and gals) all out of the water with my Nymian Beastlands content, I am sure of it. Kitsune will not be in creature book one, but they will be in creature book two and in Races of Nym as a player race. I hope I can get some of my ideas out before Paizo's "Asia material" comes around so I can hopefully get a nod from above and help out with it. I am evolving Tengu Oni (and other oni forms) plus new material on nagas, and many things related to eastern cultures (Hinduism, Shinto, Oriental Philosophies, and Egypt). New sphinxes will be covered, along with new phoenixes, new angels known as the Seraphim, and many different types of Hengyokai as player races and example stats blocks for GMs to utilize. It is so gonna rock, it's not even funny. James, you are so going to enjoy this. My goal is to have the first creature book out in final with illustrations by May 1, 2011, and to be working on a Player's Guide to Nym and Races of Nym books while finalizing a creature book two, and finish off the set with a Storyteller's Guide to Nym, Secrets of Nym, and a third creature book full of fiends and powerful critters - I can only hope that we get some epic-level monster creation stats before then so I can make them all truly magnificent! :P ;)

I am dying for a copy of The Great Beyond - I need it so bad for my writing, I am going crazy without it. Agathion are the basis for the Primaethion concept my friend Emily and I are working on for this creature book as well (plus more of them in creature books two and three). Primaethion (dinosaurs) will be out in book one, (primitive animals) will be in book two, and the few most powerful subraces will be in book three.

And just so everyone knows: if you love TENGU, then look for 'Ecology of the Tengu' in Kobold Quarterly #14, the summer issue coming out in August 2010. That article is by yours truly, and I am pretty darn proud of it, to say the least. I am a big fan of keeping cultural elements fresh and creative but also true to origins, and I have done my job as a scholar in presenting this material to you. You will find that I will be including and reprinting it in my Nymian Beastlands material, as the tengu and their outsider kin are also part of that ecology and sentient races.

Best wishes to you all. ;)
-will (R. William Thompson, or xido)


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There is a Kitsune-like PC race in Heroes of the Jade Oath. The race is actually called Shenxue (spirit-blooded), but when creating one you must choose from a mortal heritage and a spiritual aspect. One of the Aspects is the Fox Aspect. It is created directly from inspiration and mythology of the kitsune, allowing the PC to effectively play a reincarnated (and thus mortal-born) kitsune or half-kitsune character while keeping the power level low enough for a PC. However, racial and evolution class levels allow you to advance your Fox Aspect abilities.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Ashanderai wrote:
There is a Kitsune-like PC race in Heroes of the Jade Oath. The race is actually called Shenxue (spirit-blooded), but when creating one you must choose from a mortal heritage and a spiritual aspect. One of the Aspects is the Fox Aspect. It is created directly from inspiration and mythology of the kitsune, allowing the PC to effectively play a reincarnated (and thus mortal-born) kitsune or half-kitsune character while keeping the power level low enough for a PC. However, racial and evolution class levels allow you to advance your Fox Aspect abilities.

I like the sound of it. Racial levels are something I am dying to implement in some of my monstrous/powerful races material.

Contributor

Lilith wrote:


A tie between earth-bound kitsune and the vulpinals would be sweet. :)

*ponder ponder ponder* That's a seriously sweet idea there. :D

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There isn't a stat block for a simple fox anywhere, is there? I would simply make a stat block, but I would prefer a precedent before I get to that point.

Mythology make it quite clear: that kitsune are foxes before they are magical beings (fey) - so a kitsune should realistically begin play prior to whatever CR/HD they are as full fox-shifters with a few HD as a fox which then change to become fey racial HD.

I say fey because that is how they are portrayed in Kobold Quarterly and translated into PF stats on their web enhancement: link ::: Would it be more realistic, however, to make them outsiders or something else? In any case, they have to be shapechangers in order to stick with the theme of the fox-human shifter.

I am already building them as a base race with optional racial HD levels (base, advanced, and paragon - with paragon ending in a 9-tailed kitsune), so any input at this point will make a difference. Thoughts?
-will


I was hoping this thread would be about the French music and fashion label.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not so much. Here, satiate your thirst with this: http://www.pandora.com/music/song/gotan+project/epoca

Paizo Employee Creative Director

xidoraven wrote:

There isn't a stat block for a simple fox anywhere, is there? I would simply make a stat block, but I would prefer a precedent before I get to that point.

Mythology make it quite clear: that kitsune are foxes before they are magical beings (fey) - so a kitsune should realistically begin play prior to whatever CR/HD they are as full fox-shifters with a few HD as a fox which then change to become fey racial HD.

I say fey because that is how they are portrayed in Kobold Quarterly and translated into PF stats on their web enhancement: link ::: Would it be more realistic, however, to make them outsiders or something else? In any case, they have to be shapechangers in order to stick with the theme of the fox-human shifter.

I am already building them as a base race with optional racial HD levels (base, advanced, and paragon - with paragon ending in a 9-tailed kitsune), so any input at this point will make a difference. Thoughts?
-will

No stats yet for a fox; you can fake one pretty easy though by putting the young template on a dog. Or heck, just using the dog stats works okay as well, especially for a big beefy fox.

As for kitsune... when we do stats for them, they'll be supported by actual fox stats as well.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I suspect and hope that if I build stats for this, I am allowed to post them here, yeah? Technically, you could have very well replied, "No, we haven't made fox or kitsune stats, but you could always beat us to the finish line if you so please," and it would have sounded the exact same to me. :D ;P

I will be using the KQ PF kitsune conversion for a basic precedent, and as you said - a basic build on a fox will help it make sense. However - the consideration most important at this point: kitsune, fey or outsider (and subtypes, including shapechanger)? I am doing racial HD levels for them (optional alternative to class level progression beyond base traits), so I can post all that too... Or, well, at least the base racial HD levels. We'll see how that goes over before going the distance... ;)

Ok, James: on your mark, get set, KITSUNE! (I am so going to beat you guys - I have more free time. :P)

Also, I must be losing my mind lately - I left a link spot for the KQ conversion and didn't actually post it. My second-looks are getting messy now too! :P http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/front-page385.php

Paizo Employee Creative Director

xidoraven wrote:

I suspect and hope that if I build stats for this, I am allowed to post them here, yeah? Technically, you could have very well replied, "No, we haven't made fox or kitsune stats, but you could always beat us to the finish line if you so please," and it would have sounded the exact same to me. :D ;P

I will be using the KQ PF kitsune conversion for a basic precedent, and as you said - a basic build on a fox will help it make sense. However - the consideration most important at this point: kitsune, fey or outsider (and subtypes, including shapechanger)? I am doing racial HD levels for them (optional alternative to class level progression beyond base traits), so I can post all that too... Or, well, at least the base racial HD levels. We'll see how that goes over before going the distance... ;)

Ok, James: on your mark, get set, KITSUNE! (I am so going to beat you guys - I have more free time. :P)

Also, I must be losing my mind lately - I left a link spot for the KQ conversion and didn't actually post it. My second-looks are getting messy now too! :P http://www.koboldquarterly.com/k/front-page385.php

If you build up a kitsune using the PFRPG rules, you can absolutely post them here or anywhere on the internet; the rules are open, after all, and the kitsune is hardly anyone's intellectual property, it being from mythology.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Excellent. :D I wasn't exactly sure if stat blocks were allowed here for the simple fact that they are not welcome on the PathfinderWiki (as opposed to campaign-specific, summarized, flavor text - which is the only thing allowed and sought after). Just helps to cover my butt before I go 'spamming' someone's forum. ;)

I already have some work done on it, but I will make a fox stat block (including familiar info) and then build the kitsune and post it here. Something tells me that even if I do it slowly and carefully, I will still beat you all. Not that I am that cynical - just that I rarely get the opportunity to pass up the big wigs where it matters most. Many people love kitsune, and I was always a fan of Tails the fox in Sonic the Hedgehog games - whom I was told included elements of the kitsune. ;)

Side note: I suspect the Tengu Ecology crossed your path - any thoughts for me? If you'd prefer, you could send a private message on facebook, etc. I am a big fan of getting feedback and critiquing - not to mention how excited I am to have my first published RPG writing in KQ this summer. ;)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

xidoraven wrote:

Excellent. :D I wasn't exactly sure if stat blocks were allowed here for the simple fact that they are not welcome on the PathfinderWiki (as opposed to campaign-specific, summarized, flavor text - which is the only thing allowed and sought after). Just helps to cover my butt before I go 'spamming' someone's forum. ;)

I already have some work done on it, but I will make a fox stat block (including familiar info) and then build the kitsune and post it here. Something tells me that even if I do it slowly and carefully, I will still beat you all. Not that I am that cynical - just that I rarely get the opportunity to pass up the big wigs where it matters most. Many people love kitsune, and I was always a fan of Tails the fox in Sonic the Hedgehog games - whom I was told included elements of the kitsune. ;)

Side note: I suspect the Tengu Ecology crossed your path - any thoughts for me? If you'd prefer, you could send a private message on facebook, etc. I am a big fan of getting feedback and critiquing - not to mention how excited I am to have my first published RPG writing in KQ this summer. ;)

The tengu article seemed pretty good! Unfortunately, I read it quite a while ago, so I don't really have much in the way of actual feedback for it.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
The tengu article seemed pretty good! Unfortunately, I read it quite a while ago, so I don't really have much in the way of actual feedback for it.

Good enough for me. ;)

Totally off-topic question: For each product that you release both in PDF and in print, do both of them need ISBN numbers and/or UPC barcodes separately of the other format, or can they use the same designations for these? Also, what is the preferred method of a self-publisher to receive these numbers/codes for the first time? I am registered with One Bookshelf (RPGnow & DTRPG) and currently in the process of receiving a publisher code for Paizo's agreement, to give a basis of my perspective.

I recently looked at pages here: http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/us/isbnqa.asp and http://www.barcodesinc.com/generator/barcode/

I will also post this on another thread I was just perusing, since it will be at least a little applicable there. Thanks in advance.
-will


Page 40 of the Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting: "Beyond all these, whispered rumors speak of even more obscure races of intelligent beings that sometimes join or emulate human society, such as ...kitsune"

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Generic Villain wrote:
Page 40 of the Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting: "Beyond all these, whispered rumors speak of even more obscure races of intelligent beings that sometimes join or emulate human society, such as ...kitsune"

Yup! Proof that we've kind of been planning on doing up a kitsune for a long time now! :-P

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Generic Villain wrote:
Page 40 of the Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting: "Beyond all these, whispered rumors speak of even more obscure races of intelligent beings that sometimes join or emulate human society, such as ...kitsune"

Which region is that within? Don't have that book yet - only had a chance to page through it in Borders.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
xidoraven wrote:
Which region is that within? Don't have that book yet - only had a chance to page through it in Borders.

It's in the Characters chapter - the last sentence of the Other Races section describing less common races.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I see....! ;) Could you kindly transcribe that line for me, as it will help my own work? I plan on having that book, but I am waiting for the next printing of it to buy. "Other Races" would pretty much be my focus at this time, to be honest. ;) :D James - I cannot wait to make you proud.
-will


xidoraven wrote:

I see....! ;) Could you kindly transcribe that line for me, as it will help my own work? I plan on having that book, but I am waiting for the next printing of it to buy. "Other Races" would pretty much be my focus at this time, to be honest. ;) :D James - I cannot wait to make you proud.

-will

That's really the extent of it. The section on page 40 lists some of the "other races" in Golarion, and goes into some detail about things like boggards, aasimar, drow, goblins, etc. There's a little blurb at the end called that just mentions kitsune, but gives no details. Here's the word-for-word.

"Beyond all these, whispered rumors speak of even more
obscure races of intelligent beings that sometimes join or
emulate human society, such as dragons, duergar, harpies,
intellect devourers, kitsune, minotaurs, ogre magi, rakshasas,
tritons, and more."

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The only problem is that Kitsune fills a more neutral version of the same intellectual space as a rakshasas. In fact you can scribble the name/alignment of one off and use it on the other.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
TheLoneCleric wrote:
The only problem is that Kitsune fills a more neutral version of the same intellectual space as a rakshasas. In fact you can scribble the name/alignment of one off and use it on the other.

I am not sure that I could ever really see that as being a problem - but I am a fan of rakshasas. >:D Boy, oh boy, am I a fan of rakshasas.... Hehehheheeehehe... *cough* Nymian Beastlands *cough*.... >.> ......... o.o

Thanks to Generic Villain - very much appreciated. I can see that Paizo has very real intentions of this. I will do it as OGL Content soon enough and make it easier. If nothing else, Paizo can always make adjustment edits.

Can anyone tell me which current or expected PF publications have ever dealt with the details about the Mwangi Expanse? I am aware of at least one PFS adventure module - #5 Mists of Mwangi, and I would assume the 'follow-up adventure' of #35 Voice in the Void... yeah? Any others would help me with my (yet one more) idea. Is 'The Lost Colony' located anywhere near here?
-will


xidoraven wrote:


Can anyone tell me which current or expected PF publications have ever dealt with the details about the Mwangi Expanse? I am aware of at least one PFS adventure module - #5 Mists of Mwangi, and I would assume the 'follow-up adventure' of #35 Voice in the Void... yeah? Any others would help me with my (yet one more) idea. Is 'The Lost Colony' located anywhere near here?
-will

Already out and available to buy are Heart of the Jungle and Sargava, the Lost Colony, while part one of the next Pathfinder Adventure Path, The Serpent's Skull, set in the Mwangi Expanse, comes out in a week or two.


The Serpent Skull Adventure Path (Pathfinder 37-42) is set in the Mwangi Expanse and Sargava (the lost colony) from what I understand. In addition to that, there's one Companion: Sargava, the Lost Colony, one Chronicle: Heart of the Jungle, and one (3.5) module: River Into Darkness.

Ninja'd by an elf. What an embuggerance.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

TheLoneCleric wrote:
The only problem is that Kitsune fills a more neutral version of the same intellectual space as a rakshasas. In fact you can scribble the name/alignment of one off and use it on the other.

Rakshass are outsiders who abandoned their own fiendish immortality and links to the gods to become native outsiders in search of humanoids to worship them as gods. They're based on Indian mythology. They have hands that bend backwards and animal heads (could be fox heads, but could be ANY animal head).

It would be hard, in my opinion, for a kitsune to be further from that role; I see them as 0 HD humanoids that'd make a great option for a player character race. They're fox humanoids, and not any other kind of animal mix. I foresee absolutely no crossover problems between the two at all.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Thank you both for the feedback, Enevhar and Kajehase.

James Jacobs wrote:
Rakshass are outsiders who abandoned their own fiendish immortality and links to the gods to become native outsiders in search of humanoids to worship them as gods. They're based on Indian mythology. They have hands that bend backwards and animal heads (could be fox heads, but could be ANY animal head).

Have you ever had the good fortune of reading the Complete Guide to Rakshasas, by Goodman Games? If not, then you have awakened a great beast within me, as I am about to break out into discourse on this immeasurable, intriguing, and near-immortal monstrous native outsider race. If so, then I have to wonder at some specifics in your previous statement, or at least so much as it might apply to Golarion in particular. I love them - I just @$#!ing adore rakshasas - I can't help it.... They are just that intriguing as high-level opponents and schemers.

James Jacobs wrote:
It would be hard, in my opinion, for a kitsune to be further from that role; I see them as 0 HD humanoids that'd make a great option for a player character race. They're fox humanoids, and not any other kind of animal mix. I foresee absolutely no crossover problems between the two at all.

So are you saying that these potential beings would have standard two forms (fox and fox-humanoid), or three forms like the typical 3.5-style lycanthrope (humanoid, fox-humanoid, fox)? In mythology, I have always thought that they were specifically foxes who had become powerful enough ("charismatic" in terms of magic and slyness) to take on the ability to change shape (SLA + shapechanger subtype), rather than a standard race of humanoids or monstrous humanoids with a rare and unique connection to foxes.

My primary ideas as of 2 months ago included building a fox up past 2-3 HD and then allowing a changed type and stats to dictate where I saw the creature going in base racial traits including the original HD, which were now either fey or outsider racial HD. In that sense, they would not be appropriate for a base player race in the conventional sense, having racial HD (and moving into the whole uncovered realm of level adjustment, etc.). I don't know - I am still up in the air on this, though - I would love to hear some honest thoughts and concepts, and it is always nice to draw from mythological precedent, as opposed to just taking immense creative liberties with a creature so well documented in conceptual terms.

I am dying to hear your reply to the Complete Rakshasa Guide. :D In either case, I am excited to discuss them. I may have to begin a whole new thread on them.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

If you're a fan of rakshasas, you might wanna check out Pathfinder #9; it has a nice big article about how they work and function and murder in Golarion. (And no, I've not looked at Goodman Games' rakshasa book.)

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
If you're a fan of rakshasas, you might wanna check out Pathfinder #9; it has a nice big article about how they work and function and murder in Golarion. (And no, I've not looked at Goodman Games' rakshasa book.)

I will look into investing in that after I have invested in the other module I have put on higher priority, The Vault of Souls.

A) You are missing out.
B) As 'Creative Director' I hereby notify you that the creative director for my company just beat you to a great resource, and as a professional recommendation I would suggest that someone in the Paizo office own a copy of that book. It is not 'new' but it is certainly not out-of-date. A-M-A-Z-I-N-G brain-warping, inspiring creative information on them based on both cultural basis in Hinduism as well as the more general mythos of gaming's take on them as well as their decent back-up in the Monster Ecologies of Dragon mag. I own that compilation as well, and now having them both on hand I consider myself well-armed. ;)
C) After the GenCon rush has past, consider taking a moment for your own creative release, and make sure this book is on hand when your retinas recover from the bleeding, as Jason Bulmahn put it. You don't know rakshasas yet - they (Goodman) did it justice. Please please please take my word for it. Someone there at Paizo might already own it - ask. Not too long, just right - amazing @$#!ing content. One you will never let go of again - the generic (non-mechanic) material is priceless.
D) "If you are a fan of rakshasas..." .... C'mon now - it's not just being a fan. These things are integral in any high society somewhere, somehow, and likely in ways that players will not even notice until it's too late. They deserve the respect of us being fully informed informed about them - it's worth your weight in gold to know when and where the danger of a rakshasa is present.
E) In a society fundamentally based on the idea of just about anyone having the ability to disguise or utilize a shape-shifting spell or ability, being able to identify another being's true form is integral, and because of the nature of rakshasas being integrated lawfully into a society of a high enough caliber to keep them in check requires a shapechanger-oriented secret society so thorough and forward-thinking to always be one step ahead - otherwise, you have already been owned and traded, decided upon, and scooped up before you were even aware of being a commodity. These aren't night hags we're dealing with here.... ;)
F) New raskasha types coming in The Nymian Beastlands - some even better than those presented in Complete Guide. Much intrigue, much mischief, and many many many mysteries to be unfurled. Faunar culture does a pretty decent job of keeping them in check well enough to keep them "tame kitties" - but they have had many generations to perfect that art since the sigil-pacts were made.

*casts dominate person* You go read now... ;) :D
-will

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Just let me know when it arrives, James. I purchased 'Escape From Old Korvosa' the other day at the hobby shop - and I like it so far. When you get time to read it through, you'll know what I mean about it. Great book - and definitely worth a pass-share after you've gotten the chance to look through it once fully. Enjoy. ;)
-will

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Any idea of if/when an update/revision to the Beatific One, Rajput Ambari, or Maharajah Rakshasa might be made to PF stat blocks?

Also, I think it's neat that the Mantis God, Achaekek (someone needs to pronounce this for me) is a big bad outsider but still physically manifest. What kinds of general goals/precedents are supposed to be used with big critters (epic comes to mind) like this beyond the normal HD/CR mechanics? Can Epic Level Handbook mechanics be used outright, or is there some in-house epic rules that have yet to be solidified, or should this be considered anathema to PF stats?

I think there are certain things that some of us creative people out here might be able to help out on considering the immense load already upon Paizo in order to make some of these things come about. There is a very active discussion community here if nothing else - I am prepared to revise these critters for my own use anyways.... But I would prefer to have the sanctioning of a creatively OGL project before starting into it. Otherwise, it's all private work until I get my Nymian Beastlands CS formed and published over the next few years (which I don't mind, but it would be more fun the other way).

Oh, and James - I hope you realize that now that someone in the company owns Complete Rakshasa, I fully expect a lengthy conversation with the in-house expert on rakshasas sometime in the next month or so. They are much too often overlooked (and nearly disrepected, being compared to a hengeyokai - UGH!) as a general statement, but in some ways within Golarion as well (but then again, it always is for outsiders when it comes to these things - such is the way with territory and ownership of intelligence....).
-will

Paizo Employee Creative Director

xidoraven wrote:

Just let me know when it arrives, James. I purchased 'Escape From Old Korvosa' the other day at the hobby shop - and I like it so far. When you get time to read it through, you'll know what I mean about it. Great book - and definitely worth a pass-share after you've gotten the chance to look through it once fully. Enjoy. ;)

-will

As I mentioned on the phone... I got it in the mail a couple days ago. Haven't had a chance to read through it all yet (and frankly, I'm not sure when I will...) but right off the top I'm a bit disappointed that all the rakshasa have tiger heads. I'm a HUGE fan of having rakshasa have variable animal heads. :)

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
As I mentioned on the phone... I got it in the mail a couple days ago. Haven't had a chance to read through it all yet (and frankly, I'm not sure when I will...) but right off the top I'm a bit disappointed that all the rakshasa have tiger heads. I'm a HUGE fan of having rakshasa have variable animal heads. :)

lol - understandable - but it's only in the illustrations, and it is mentioned like elsewhere about them having other types of heads as well. I was big into the fact that they had MULTIPLE headed varieties included - and to be honest, once you reach the text on deception, mystery, intrigue, and the inevitable demise of mortal morality around them, you'll feel it can redeem itself. It's smaller in pages and length than the Complete Guide to Fey, but to me - twice as valuable.

No worries - but someone there must consider themselves a rakshasa guru, no? Maybe Owen Stephens has more dominion over you than you are aware...??? :P lol, trust me, you'll like this one. It might even make you question how many of your mortal friends might even secretly be rakshasas in disguise, plotting someone's eventual downfall, or else an inevitable rise to power and might. >.> :D It won't even matter which animal head they are wearing under their disguise(s) at that point... ;)

I think the tiger heads are more symbolic and powerful than say a viper - which cannot be said to be specifically Indian - or an elephant - that is regional, but not as dynamic as an animal of power or dominance. This is purely an illustrative oversight - trust me, the text is much more endearing.
-will

Paizo Employee Creative Director

xidoraven wrote:
Any idea of if/when an update/revision to the Beatific One, Rajput Ambari, or Maharajah Rakshasa might be made to PF stat blocks?

Nope. No idea.

xidoraven wrote:
Also, I think it's neat that the Mantis God, Achaekek (someone needs to pronounce this for me) is a big bad outsider but still physically manifest. What kinds of general goals/precedents are supposed to be used with big critters (epic comes to mind) like this beyond the normal HD/CR mechanics? Can Epic Level Handbook mechanics be used outright, or is there some in-house epic rules that have yet to be solidified, or should this be considered anathema to PF stats?

It's pronounced: ah-CHAY-kek.

For these types of creatures (of which the demon lords and arch devils are a part), if you're using the 3.5 rules, they are very much epic-level threats. For Pathfinder, since we don't officially have any epic level rules, they're sort of "on hiatus." You can certainlly still use the stats as presented if you want, but once we figure out how or Epic rules work in a few years (I hope!) we'll very likely be rebuilding Achaekek, the demon lords, and all of our CR 26+ stat blocks into epic level threats. Achaekek is VERY unlikely to remain a CR 30 creature, though; he'll probably get higher level.

xidoraven wrote:
I think there are certain things that some of us creative people out here might be able to help out on considering the immense load already upon Paizo in order to make some of these things come about. There is a very active discussion community here if nothing else - I am prepared to revise these critters for my own use anyways.... But I would prefer to have the sanctioning of a creatively OGL project before starting into it. Otherwise, it's all private work until I get my Nymian Beastlands CS formed and published over the next few years (which I don't mind, but it would be more fun the other way).

This type of thing is precisely what we created the Community Use Policy for; so folks can develop their own stuff for Golarion and share those creations publicly for free.

xidoraven wrote:
Oh, and James - I hope you realize that now that someone in the company owns Complete Rakshasa, I fully expect a lengthy conversation with the in-house expert on rakshasas sometime in the next month or so. They are much too often overlooked (and nearly disrepected, being compared to a hengeyokai - UGH!) as a general statement, but in some ways within Golarion as well (but then again, it always is for outsiders when it comes to these things - such is the way with territory and ownership of intelligence....).

I hardly feel rakshasas are "overlooked." They're cool monsters, but they're not monsters you can just throw in for fun. They're in the monstrous mastermind category, which is the same category that things like aboleths and liches and vampires and neothelids live in; as such, they're best used sparingly so that they don't start feeling OVERused.

We DO have a rakshasa coming up in the Serpent's Skull adventure path, in any event.

As for lengthy conversations... unless you can corner me at a convention, such conversations are going to have to be limited to messageboard exchanges like these. AKA: I'm a busy guy, and time spent chatting at length about rakshasas is time I'm not spending working at my job (which takes up a LOT of my time, so that my precious free time is something I'm very protective of...).

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Lost Omens Campaign Setting / General Discussion / Kitsune in Golarion? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion