Hey everyone,
In our next campaign we're going to playtest Pathfinder, and we also thought we'd mix things up a bit by straying from the standard fighter/cleric/rogue/wizard combination. We're going to try coordinating character design to make our party stealthy and fast, so we can set up ambushes and sneak around with ease. This probably means two stealthy meat shields (some combination of fighter/rogue), two arcane casters (most likely an evoker and either an illusionist or an abjurer), and possibly a paladin or monk.
At any rate, I am trying to figure out the best ways to be stealthy under the Pathfinder system. Below are ways I could think of to be good at stealth. Do you know of a cool way to make your character or the party stealthy and quiet? Please let me know!
culix
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How to be stealthy in Pathfinder:
1. Buy ranks in Stealth. Every class in Pathfinder can purchase ranks in this skill on a 1-1 cost; it's a great way to ensure you have a basic level of sneakiness.
2. Take a level of Bard, Monk, Ranger, or Rogue. These classes have Stealth as a class skill, so if you buy one rank you get a +3 bonus on Stealth checks. You can also take a level of Cleric and select the Trickery domain.
3. Play a human or half-elf. Humans get bonus skill points at every level while Half-elves get a free Skill Focus feat - use these to increase your Stealth check.
4. Play a fighter. Fighters learn armor training at level 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19; this allows them to reduce the armor check penalty, increase the max Dex bonus, and move more quickly.
5. Pick a cat familiar. If you're a wizard this nets you a +3 on Stealth checks.
6. Wear masterwork armor. Sure it "only" reduces your armor check penalty by one point, but every little bit helps. Masterwork armor is a cheap way to improve your Stealth skill that doesn't cost skill points or feats.
7. Get Shadow armor. For 4900gp (150 masterwork, 1,000 +1 enhancement, 3,750 Shadow) you can buy +1 Shadow armor and get a +5 competence bonus on Stealth checks.
8. Use feats. Skill Focus (Stealth) and Stealthy, while perhaps not optimal, both add to your Stealth skill check.
9. Buy a wand of invisibility. At 4500gp these are not cheap, but they can help hide your less stealthy party members at key times.
10. Use spells! Many spells can help individuals or a group be sneakier, including:
alter self; animal shapes; animal trance; beast shape i, ii, iii, and iv; cat's grace; cat's grace, mass; color spray; dancing lights; darkness; deep slumber; deeper darkness; disguise self; elemental body i, ii, iii, and iv; ethereal jaunt; etherealness; fog cloud; ghost sound; glitterdust; guidance; hallucinatory terrain; heroism; heroism, greater; hide from animals; hide from undead; hypnotic pattern; hypnotism; illusory wall; invisibility; invisibility sphere; invisibility, greater; invisibility, mass; major image; meld into stone; message; minor image; mirage arcana; obscuring mist; open/close; pass without trace; persistent image; polymorph; project image; rainbow pattern; reduce person; reduce person, mass; seeming; shapechange; silence; silent image; sleep; sleet storm; spider climb; suggestion; symbol of sleep; telepathic bond; transport via plants; tree shape; tree stride; ventriloquism
11. Use tactics! Some ideas:
- Use a scout or magic to recon the area ahead so you can approach at the right time or when danger has passed.
- Set ambushes. Let the noisier members of your group wait in hiding and have stealthier characters lead the enemy into your trap.
So, how else can you be stealthy in Pathfinder?
You missed "play a member of a small or smaller race". Small characters receive +4 to Stealth checks. Tiny characters (not that there are any in the core book) would get +8, etc.
Two spells to keep in mind are Darkvision and Levitate.
If it is at night, or underground, then Darkvision is your friend, as you do not have a beacon indicating where you are.
Levitate cast on the noisy people can allow them to move without any noise, if they were pulled by a stealthy individual (or if they hung onto a quiet individual)
Do you know of a cool way to make your character or the party stealthy and quiet? Please let me know!
Get incorporeal e.g. by way of etherealness.
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Reduce person and small race sounds like a winner, you'd be relying on sneak attack dice in a bad way at that point though, especially if you went Tiny.
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TOWER SHIELDS!
They make you invisible!
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Iron Silence - armor no longer gives a check penalty to stealth checks. This is a second level bard spell, which is a class that could very well fit into your group theme. The bard should take subsonics, which lets him use his bardic music quietly. This allows inspire competence to in fact count for stealth checks.
Also, Mithril, it reduces check penalties, makes heavier armors lighter, and allows for people to move faster than normal without reducing their protection. Mithral knocks another -2 off of the check penalty, with the master craft making it -3.
Use Advanced Goblin Stealth Techniques: Hold your weapon or a tree branch in front of you!
Hey everyone,
Wow, thanks for the awesome replies! These are good ideas, and yeah thanks for pointing out the stuff I missed like Small races and size bonuses to Stealth :P
Reduce person and small race sounds like a winner, you'd be relying on sneak attack dice in a bad way at that point though, especially if you went Tiny.
Good point. If the Small character was a spellcaster they would have a leg up here. But I don't necessarily need the character to *stay* small - temporarily reducing them so they can sneak past a foe or set up an ambush and then returning them to normal size would work for me :)
Iron Silence - This is a second level bard spell ... armor no longer gives a check penalty to stealth checks
This sounds like a very useful spell. I don't see it in the Pathfinder SRD (I don't have my hardcopy with me atm). If it's not from the main Pathfinder book can you tell me the source? As we're doing our first playtest I'm not sure if the DM will allow material from outside the core Pathfinder book, but if I can find the spell it can't hurt to ask :)
I'm guessing the Subsonics ability is from the same source?
Thanks everyone. Since I am unable to edit my original post I am putting the updated list below, with credits for your ideas and some other things I have discovered in the meantime.
culix/dndculix
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How to be stealthy in Pathfinder:
1. Buy ranks in Stealth. Every class in Pathfinder can purchase ranks in this skill on a 1-1 cost; it's a great way to ensure you have a basic level of sneakiness.
2. Take a level of Bard, Monk, Ranger, or Rogue. These classes have Stealth as a class skill, so if you buy one rank you get a +3 bonus on Stealth checks. You can also take a level of Cleric and select the Trickery domain.
3. Play a human or half-elf. Humans get bonus skill points at every level while Half-elves get a free Skill Focus feat - use these to increase your Stealth check.
4. Play a Gnome or Halfling. These races are Small and gain a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks. (Thanks Zurai)
5. Play a Fighter. Fighters learn armor training at level 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19; this allows them to reduce the armor check penalty, increase the max Dex bonus, and move more quickly.
6. Play a Rogue. The Rogue Talent 'Fast Stealth' lets the rogue move at full speed while being stealthy, while the Advanced Rogue Talent 'Skill Mastery' can let her take 10 on Stealth checks even when stressed or distracted.
7. Pick a cat familiar. If you're a wizard this nets you a +3 on Stealth checks.
8. Wear masterwork armor. Sure it "only" reduces your armor check penalty by one point, but every little bit helps. Masterwork armor is a cheap way to improve your Stealth skill that doesn't cost skill points or feats.
9. Get Shadow armor. For 4900gp (150 masterwork, 1,000 +1 enhancement, 3,750 Shadow) you can buy +1 Shadow armor and get a +5 competence bonus on Stealth checks.
10. Get Mithral armor. Mithral armor and shields are one category lighter for the purposes of movement and encumbrance, weigh half as much, increase the max Dex bonus by 2, and decrease the armor check penalty by 3. Darkwood shields also lower the armor check penalty by 2. (Thanks Dissinger)
11. Use feats. Skill Focus (Stealth) and Stealthy, while perhaps not optimal, both add to your Stealth skill check.
12. Buy a wand of invisibility. At 4500gp these are not cheap, but they can help hide your less stealthy party members at key times. Other spells in wands may work well too.
13. Use consumables.
* Dust of Disappearance grants you 'greater invisibility' for 2d6 rounds (3,500gp)
* Dust of Tracelessness can be used to hide your tracks (250gp). (Thanks Daniel Moyer)
* Elixir of Hiding: +10 Stealth for 1 hour (250gp)
14. Use other magic items
* Cloak of the Bat (+5 Stealth, 26,000gp)
* Cloak of Elvenkind (+5 Stealth, 2,500gp)
* Cloak of Etherealness (55,000gp)
15. Use spells! Many spells can help individuals or a group be sneakier, including:
alter self; animal shapes; animal trance; beast shape i, ii, iii, and iv; cat's grace; cat's grace, mass; color spray; dancing lights; darkness; darkvision; deep slumber; deeper darkness; disguise self; elemental body i, ii, iii, and iv; ethereal jaunt; etherealness; fog cloud; gaseous form; ghost sound; glitterdust; guidance; hallucinatory terrain; heroism; heroism, greater; hide from animals; hide from undead; hypnotic pattern; hypnotism; illusory wall; invisibility; invisibility sphere; invisibility, greater; invisibility, mass; levitate; major image; meld into stone; message; minor image; mirage arcana; obscuring mist; open/close; pass without trace; persistent image; polymorph; project image; rainbow pattern; reduce person, mass; seeming; shapechange; silence; silent image; sleep; sleet storm; spider climb; suggestion; symbol of sleep; telepathic bond; transport via plants; tree shape; tree stride; ventriloquism
16. Use tactics! Some ideas:
- Use a scout or magic to recon the area ahead so you can approach at the right time or when danger has passed.
- Set ambushes. Let the noisier members of your group wait in hiding and have stealthier characters lead the enemy into your trap.
- Cast 'levitate' on noisy party members and have them hold on to a stealthy individual, or fly them on a rope like a kite. This allows heavily armored party members to be moved without doing a lot of clanking. (Thanks to Mistwalker for the idea)
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updates: added Rogue talents, added gnome and halfling racial mods (thanks Zurai), added levitate idea (thanks Mistwalker), added 'darkvision', 'gaseous form' and 'levitate' to spell list (thanks Daniel Moyer and Mistwalker), added many consumable items (thanks to Daniel Moyer for making me go through the magic items chapter :)
buy out the local magic shops supply of cloaks of elven kind. Or have an elven caster in the party to make them.
Silenced armor, once you can afford it, will help keep the meatshields on par with the quieter, unarmored characters.
A good int score works wonders for characters who don't really need to be that smart. Stealth is good, no matter who you are, and some extra skill points never hurt anyone.
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1. Buy ranks in Stealth. Every class in Pathfinder can purchase ranks in this skill on a 1-1 cost; it's a great way to ensure you have a basic level of sneakiness.
I don't have my book in front of me, but don't you get to choose between a skill point and a hit point every time you gain a level in your preferred class? Just pointing out that those extra skills could make the choice easier...
"Freedom of Movement" might be worth investing in also. Not for stealth, but for speedy movement through 'rough' terrain.
Heh, I'm usually thinking of the exit strategy when it comes to Rogues, getting in is usually the easy part! Don't forget about the EXIT! :D
Check these out...
(Spider Hook (RPG SUPERSTARS) - Animated hook w/ rope.)
EDIT: Caltrops & Grease(spell)... while Freedom of Movement is on. :D
If Potions of Sneaking are still in the game, they make great low level one shot sneaking.
Remember that you can buy half charged wands at half of the price. You can even pay per charge although anything other than 10, 25 or 50 charges would likely be custom order.
I would probably avoid anyone playing an Evoker. Nothing says stealthy like a fireball. Enchantment and Illusion are nice subtle magics that fit the subtrifuge style play.