What is a good adventure to introduce Kids to Pathfinder? (Pre-existing module would be best, in case they don't stay interrested.)
Let me clarify one thing, I respect kids and believe that they can handle more violence and sex then we give them credit for. But, they are still kids, so I wouldn't want to go too "mature" with either of subject matter.
Pathfinder is still a pretty complex game. Many adults have trouble remembering the hundreds and thousands of rules relationships and restrictions. You can certainly try putting them through a module but I have no idea which ones might not be appropriate. I confess I have never played in a Paizo adventure because I always run my own.
As for rules though, I started working on a stripped down version of Pathfinder called PF-Lite, specifically intended for young and/or casual players. The intent is to give an introduction to the system and let them get a feel for the "real" system, and then let them "graduate" into the real deal as they become ready.
Email me at jreyst@gmail.com if you'd like to talk about that offline.
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warning spoilers of Curse of the Kobald King and connected material ahead.
well interestingly enough I am about to start a campaign for a few of my friends and their sons. None of the kids have gamed before, and are getting introduced to gaming in this campaign. (no pressure at all right lol). So I have been pouring over my material on hand, looking at old stuff, etc. I really wanted to capture that classic gaming feel. I even thought back to when me and my friends started gaming long long ago. I considered dusting off keep on the borderlands and converting it. ( I still might.), but I looked at my shelf and there sat Curse of the Kobald King. I snapped it up, and pulled up the free pdf's for Hollows last hope and revenge of the Kobald king. Yes I plan on toning down a few aspects that I feel may be a little much for the kid's, but I loved the whole thing as an intro to gaming especially for kids. Falcons Hollow has that edge of society frontier feel. It screams classic to me. The main first push of the campaign arc will be to rescue a bunch of kids who got captured wandering off "playing at being adventurers" to me what better adventure to send a bunch of kids who are being introduced to gaming then that? I intend to give them another quest before running revenge so that the kings return is a bit of a surprise then i am going to flesh out the rest of the complex below the monastery for a real dungeon delve experience. I also plan on playing up the nasty lumber consortium so hopefully they will end up saving the town as well. I hope this helps. I know I am looking forward to bringing in the next gen of gamers, and salute you for doing so as well.
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You could start with one of the PFS Society games. They're cheap, fairly short and should serve as a good introduction.
The various Falcon's Hollow modules are also a good campaign strung together, but be aware that they are bleak in the extreme with the players a bright spot in a sea of grime. Kids might do better with a more straight up adventure.
Of course, the Crypt of the Everflame is designed as an introductory adventure and features village children going on a quest to be adults. That should also appeal to the kids.
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on a mechanics/rules note I would like to add that I think kids are capable of handling the crunch of the game. Pathfinder is pretty straight forward on how things work. (YEA CMB!!) Like any new gamer they arn't going to be min maxing number crunchers when they start out, but I have been amazed by kids at my table, or playing alongside me in rpga games countless times by the tactics, creative spell usage, and they love riddles and puzzles in games. Not only that they aren't afraid to get in there and role play their characters. So I hope you enjoy running for them, and most importantly have fun first worry over rules second. :)
All I have to ask is: do they make cultist robes that small?
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I do agree with Paul about the bleakness part. That is an easy fix though through dming. I will note that I am not running the disease aspect of hollows last hope at all. instead I am kicking things off with some lumber jacks approaching the party, and asking for aid against a forest wyrm ( The Taltzwyrm) that has been attacking the woodsmen. giving the pcs a chance to explore darkmoon wood before the children go missing I plan on the children being around when the pc's return victorious inspiring them to head off to the orphanage ruins. I will probably not use Jeva as written either, instead making her a woodsy type (rangerish) who offers to help track down the kids.
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I have to agree wholeheartedly with the posts above.
Pathfinder Society
These adventures are quick (recommended 4hr duration), affordable ($3.99), and immediately available (PDF download). The adventures themselves are interesting and snappy. Some were particularly challenging for a party of first-level characters, so it pays to read the GM boards (spoilers abound) to avoid a TPK being their first gaming experience, though some scenarios work particularly well as intros. My recommendations would be #1 Silent Tide, #9 Eye of the Crocodile King, or #17 Perils of the Pirate Pact, though there are certainly others that would work. Society scenarios can be played in any order, so you don't feel obliged to play more than the first session if it's just an intro session, but if the players enjoy it, there's an endless supply of adventures to continue with.
Hollows Last Hope
This adventure is a bit longer, might require a couple of sessions to complete, and it's a FREE PDF download, can't get any sweeter than that! I ran Hollows Last Hope with three work colleagues and two of their kids. I'm not sure of their ages, maybe 5 and 7? One was a little too young for roleplaying, and only paid attention when asked to roll dice, but the other played Lini the gnome druid and really excelled at her character, to the point of putting most of the adults to shame.
Warning, spoilers for Hollows Last Hope:
Note: You'll have to decide for yourself whether a coughing sickness is an appropriate theme for young players in the current climate of swine influenza, but it might be an opportunity to roleplay townsfolk and re-inforcing the importance of washing hands and covering your mouth when coughing.
The mission is easily understood by young children. Thinking the illness might be a little scarey for young children, I altered the symptoms such that those affected coughed clouds of black dust motes into the air, to make the illness seem less real-life and more Harry Potter.
As the PCs horse-drawn carriage rode into town, the streets were strangely deserted, except for a young girl helping her younger brother across the street, displaying obvious signs of the affliction. "So, what do your characters do?" All of the adults were like "I'm not getting out of the coach, what if it's contagious?" Without hesitation, Lini stepped forward and said "Maybe they need our help?" And thus began many instances where the innocence and curiosity of youth won over the ingrained suspicion of adulthood.
The search for the cure ingredients takes the characters through several varied and interesting encounters in the woodlands, including a distressed fire-tail fox caught in a hunter's trap which may then become an animal companion to the druid or ranger who rescued it, something young players love!
I did find that first-level characters burned through their hit-points, so even though this is a race against time to find a cure, you might want to allow overnight rests to reset their hit-points, drop healing potions (or magical berries?) in opportune places, or start the characters at second level or with bonus hit-points (as suggested in Pathfinder Beta) - be easy on new players. I've run two groups through this adventure, the second group stumbling upon the fallen bodies of the first group, and reviving them - the final encounter TPK warning.
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Of all the adventures published thus far, Crypt of the Everflame is the one I truly think is best for introducing kids to the game. The story will appeal to them and the setup is basic enough that they will easily grasp what is going on.
Edit: For what its worth I DM children on a regular basis and have introduced several to gaming. I have used a variety of modules and adventures for this but Crypt of the Everflame immediately leapt out at me as almost perfect for this sort of thing.
Edit 2: I would really not use Crown of the Kobold King for introducing children without major revisions - its a much deadlier module than my first reading led me to believe. The time element in particular makes it hard to complete as is. If I was using it - I would remove the deadline completely and probably rewrite the Smith portion so as not to be quite so deadly. The keys to hooking children is success and advancement. You want them to advance to level two by the end of the first session and... you want them to live.
There's also "Into the Haunted Forest" that would work fairly well for younger kids. It's based in the Arthell Forest which is also in Darkmoon Vale so you could work it into a Falcon's Hollow campaign or even use it as a starting point for one.
Best of all, it's only $5.00.
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*cough*
Hook Mountain Massacre...
...
What?
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Okay seriously... for newbies I can heartily recommend the Silent Tide scenario that can be picked up here for four bucks. It's got almost all of the encounter types present - you've got some fights, a rescue, some good puzzles, a bit of investigation (depending on things), and an end fight with an evil bandit-type-guy who wants to destroy a city. And best of all it can be run in a couple hours.
What more can you ask?
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Of all the adventures published thus far, Crypt of the Everflame is the one I truly think is best for introducing kids to the game. The story will appeal to them and the setup is basic enough that they will easily grasp what is going on.
I haven't received my subscription copy of this or read the PDF yet, so I'll defer to Wicht's recommendation on this one. Though it's simple enough to run a 3.5 adventure using Pathfinder rules or vice-versa, as Crypt of the Everflame is the first adventure written to showcase the new Pathfinder RPG rules, that might be another reason to run with this one.
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I'll echo the suggestion for 'Crypt of the Everflame', because based on what I've read it looks like it would a very good module for 4th graders (my own copy hasn't arrived yet, so I base this on what others have said). The adventure background (coming-of-age ritual the PCs must undertake), clear goals, heroic theme and "constrained"/self-contained area... I think it's an ideal choice for kids of that age for these reasons. :)
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For newbies I can heartily recommend the Silent Tide scenario that can be picked up here for four bucks. It's got almost all of the encounter types present - you've got some fights, a rescue, some good puzzles, a bit of investigation (depending on things), and an end fight with an evil bandit-type-guy who wants to destroy a city. And best of all it can be run in a couple hours.
What more can you ask?
Warning, Silent Tide spoilers:
There is a scene where the PCs may be tempted to barter a cache of poison in exchange for information. For children, you may skip this moral dilemma, as it's not really required, or maybe it makes a good exercise in right versus wrong?
You might want to simplify the back-story into terms kids can understand. For example, strip out references to naval armadas and siege towers, and replace with pirates and hide-outs.
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'Crypt of the Everflame'. The adventure background (coming-of-age ritual the PCs must undertake), clear goals, heroic theme and "constrained"/self-contained area... I think it's an ideal choice for kids of that age for these reasons. :)
Everything I was just about to say, consider this another vote for Crypt.
I recommend 4th edition for 4th graders. I doesn't need to be toned down to lite version, and the characters are tougher than 1st level prpg characters. All in all, more fun for them. That's what I use with my group of kids.
- Zorg
I'd personally go for 4th Edition just for simplicity. I've been playing 3.5 for years and still learnign new stuff about it. However, when I tried a 4th Edition play-by-post game, I litrilly just looked at the PDF, and within a few mins I know exactly how to play.
For the advanture...well...if they're new, I'd forgoe an advanture path and jsut try somthing simple, like the standard "Princess kidnapped by an evil dragon". It'll give a nice fantasy feel, and if it's their first time I don't see the clicheness (if that's even a word) of the story putting them off.
Good to see someone with the patience to work with a younger crowd. My niece has been playing since 1st grade (she's going into 5th now), & doing well (good @ math). Gauge your players' skills & gear to their strengths. You might also throw in a ringer or two, folks willing to play a cleric or bard & take a real back-seat role. My niece needed a few hints to get it right at first but she learned because she enjoyed the game. Her biggest problem is building characters too different from herself & not being able to get in character.
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I've been gaming with my kids since they were four years old (oldest is 13 now, youngest is 9). They've cut their teeth so to speak on 3rd edition and it has never really been a problem. My 12 year old in particular doesn't like the changes made with the 4th edition ruleset. Of course kids with no prior exposure won't know the difference one way or the other.
As for complexity - 3rd edition is not too complex for a kid with good reading skills.
Which is to say, the DM should go with the ruleset he knows best - not the one he thinks will be easiest for kids to grasp. There will be a learning curve with any system - the important thing is for the DM to know what each character can do and to be prepared to volunteer actions or choices for the child.
But as I said before - the key to hooking a kid to Dungeons and Dragons is the concept of leveling (Not the ease or difficulty of the rules). It doesn't matter what else happens in the first session - they need to have their characters go from 1st to 2nd level. If that happens they'll come back for more. This has been my experience without exception.
I agree about the idea of having them Level during or at the end of the adventure. Gives them a nice little reward & incentive.
An checking it out (and the comments) I agree Crypt of the Everflame is exactly what I am looking for!
And, now to decide on a version (4th or Pathfinder). ;)
For young kids, I actually think that 4th Edition is a far better intro route. Number and rule crunching aren't that much fun when you're in the 12 and under age. And I think the Golarian setting is one of those that's in the "mature" category.
I'd actaully say that number crunching can be annoying for any age. It's taken me quite a while to get a grip on 3.5, and even then, the people I play with to this day are still finding things in the rules we didn't know about.
Whilst I personally don't care much for 4th Edition, one thing they did well to their credit is that it's easy to pick up, and pick up quickly.
I agree about the idea of having them Level during or at the end of the adventure. Gives them a nice little reward & incentive.
An checking it out (and the comments) I agree Crypt of the Everflame is exactly what I am looking for!
And, now to decide on a version (4th or Pathfinder). ;)
Pathfinder, man! Yes, I'm biased. 4th left me flat, for some reason.
I remember getting 3.0 when it came out, and had no one to play with. I enlisted my 4 nieces and nephews, aged 7-13 or so, to help me learn the game. I DMed, and just made up some encounters leading to an adventure path in Dungeon.
We had a blast. They really got into it, and I made sure to give a lot of description as to what was happening. Guide them into easy-to-play classes like fighter and sorcerer (the 7 year old loved his barbarian, named "Chopper"). They went through the player's book and picked characters they liked (the girls liked the "cute" halflings and gnomes). After some false starts, they settled into some characters that made it a few levels. Once school started (and I went back to work, too), we sort of abandoned the game, but they played a few rainy-day games with their friends, and still remember my description of the evil wizard's head going plop...plop...ker-plop down the spiral stairs after a lucky sneak-attack.
"Don't slip on the blood!"
"Ewwwww!"
They weren't sophisticated players, naturally, but their enthusiasm made up for it. I eventually got them a PHB, and they would actually READ it. Good times!
The kids will be creative enough and it wouldnt surprise me if a kid made the bard class work better than us adults.
I agree with that. I've seen 9 years old use Action Points and ressources in usefull ways that a teenager or an adult wouldn't even think of.
- Zorg
I recommend 4th edition for 4th graders. I doesn't need to be toned down to lite version, and the characters are tougher than 1st level prpg characters. All in all, more fun for them. That's what I use with my group of kids.
- Zorg
Zorg, with respect, I completely disagree. Considering I cut my teeth in the 4th/5th grade briefly with Blue Book and then right into 2nd Edition, the game does not need to be toned down. I also get fresh insight into the child mind thanks to my current job. Depending on their academic strength 4th grades can easily take PFRGG if delivered in small doses. The tone of the game perhaps, and most of Paizo's work is a little on the darkside for a first brush.
If you really want to cut it down to an easy to understand introduction to roleplaying/board-gaming I suggest Descent: Journeys in the Dark. This takes the place of the older HeroQuest board game, that I and my friends first started learning to roleplaying with. HeroQuest and Descent: Journeys in the Dark introduce key concepts such as team work and tactical thinking that will serve young players well when they move up to more complex, less board bound games.
As to handling the PFRGP. I suggest using the Slow Progression and focussing heavily on the first 3 levels of play. If you are inclined to create your own adventures using Pathfinder Chronicles guides like the one to Darkmoon vale as the backbone.
Two other main points, either be very clear and specific with the adventure or let the wander a region. I miss the Caves of Chaos.
And, also for 4th Graders: would 4th Edition be a better choice? And, if so, what would be the right module?
Absolutely not!
Introduce the PF rules to them slowly at first, see how well they understand it. The rules themselves don't contain sex or violence, so that problem doesn't exist. Plus, unless they're dumb kids, they should be able to understand PF. You're there to explain things if the need arises.
And from all I've heard, all the 4e modules are crap, anyway.
Just use any PF adventure - you can just gloss over the stuff that is unsuitable for children.
Rule of thumb: If you would tell it to them as a story, you can let them play it. Read the old stories again to see what was going on there: Old ladies horribly burned to death (probably one of the most painful ways to die) for attempting to eat children; animals that just followed their instincts being cruelly drowned (instead of just driven off or simply shot mercifully); murder out of jealousy; dwarves!
If you read that stuff to children and they don't fall into a dissociative coma upon hearing it, they might be okay with ogres eating people they've killed (you might not tell them how ogres like to torture people and that those who survive are mentally scarred for life. And for the love of god, don't show them Mammy Graul and what she does to captives!)
Well there is enough material that can be complex for children at that age. So some simplification will be needed or translating it into terms a child can comprehend. And there is some material in there which even I as an adult scared me Zon-Kuthon being the chief amongsnt them...So some of the stuff has to be made lighter for the kidsI recommend 4th edition for 4th graders. I doesn't need to be toned down to lite version, and the characters are tougher than 1st level prpg characters. All in all, more fun for them. That's what I use with my group of kids.
- Zorg
Zorg, with respect, I completely disagree. Considering I cut my teeth in the 4th/5th grade briefly with Blue Book and then right into 2nd Edition, the game does not need to be toned down. I also get fresh insight into the child mind thanks to my current job. Depending on their academic strength 4th grades can easily take PFRGG if delivered in small doses. The tone of the game perhaps, and most of Paizo's work is a little on the darkside for a first brush.
If you really want to cut it down to an easy to understand introduction to roleplaying/board-gaming I suggest Descent: Journeys in the Dark. This takes the place of the older HeroQuest board game, that I and my friends first started learning to roleplaying with. HeroQuest and Descent: Journeys in the Dark introduce key concepts such as team work and tactical thinking that will serve young players well when they move up to more complex, less board bound games.
As to handling the PFRGP. I suggest using the Slow Progression and focussing heavily on the first 3 levels of play. If you are inclined to create your own adventures using Pathfinder Chronicles guides like the one to Darkmoon vale as the backbone.
Two other main points, either be very clear and specific with the adventure or let the wander a region. I miss the Caves of Chaos.
Excellent suggestions.
Keep them playing at low levels until they can play combat rounds and play their roles consistently.
I found that explaining damage as an abstract way of judging how badly you're hurt worked well, just as in the books. Sure, a real medieval battle would result in lakes of blood, but that's a pretty grim thing to describe to kids playing a game. They like being grossed-out, though, and 4th-graders have probably seen plenty of violent movies, so a few "Ewwww...Gross!" moments can be fun.
The kids I played with loved it when my bad guys talked in scary or comical voices, and when I described dark, dank dungeons filled with fungus and spider webs. When the skeletons in the next room got up and started walking towards them, everyone paid attention! :-)
Back in the day, people who survived a sword thrust and didn't die immediately could usually look forward to dying from infection. Healing magic, of course, "kills the germs."
It's easy to keep things G rated, or at least PG, by how you talk about the game. A little coaching when they're not sure what to do, and a little praise for a job well done, will keep them playing.
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Dungeon crawls are definitely better for children than story driven modules. In actuality, younger children (like my 9yo twins) really enjoy the dungeons...it's a great way to use math puzzles, and easy logic puzzles to help teach while you entertain.
4th grade is a decent time to begin killing humanoid bad guys...when my kids were younger, they mostly fought creatures and undead.
Also, make sure if you're running games for kids that are not yours, that you have parental permission...some people freak out about D&D...luckily this isn't D&D it's Pathfinder, an adventure game!
Dungeon crawls are definitely better for children than story driven modules. In actuality, younger children (like my 9yo twins) really enjoy the dungeons...it's a great way to use math puzzles, and easy logic puzzles to help teach while you entertain.
4th grade is a decent time to begin killing humanoid bad guys...when my kids were younger, they mostly fought creatures and undead.
Also, make sure if you're running games for kids that are not yours, that you have parental permission...some people freak out about D&D...luckily this isn't D&D it's Pathfinder, an adventure game!
Hmmm...I guess I would have to disagree Xaaon. I think it really depends on the temperament of the child in question.
I run mostly "story" games for my 7 and 10 year old and they really enjoy the role-playing (acting as someone else) aspect. They like the combat as well, but it is the plot that keeps them coming back for more and makes the most memorable impression.
So I would urge GM's to "mix it up"; give them a good sampling of what is possible. Give them some combat, some tricks and traps, some puzzles, and monster bashing, but wrap it all up in a coherent story.
CJ
monstrous humanoids, such as trolls.
Giants until proven otherwise ;-)