In the Beastiary preview Tieflings are listed. They are given the "Fiendish Sorcery" which is:
Fiendish Sorcery (Ex) Tiefling sorcerers with
the Abyssal or Infernal bloodline treat their
Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer
class abilities.
My question is. What is considered a class ability as opposed to a class feature? The term class ability really isn't used anywhere in the class section.
To that end, what exactly is the Fiendish Sorcery doing? Is it giving them bonus spells as if they had 2 more charisma? Does it increase the spell DC? Or is it only used on bloodling powers that say you can use the ability X times per day + your charisma modifier? Or does it affect all of these things?
Just trying to get some clarification for a player in my group that wants to make a Tiefling for Council of Thieves.
I'm fairly certain the intended interpretation is that, for the correct bloodlines, their CHA is counted higher for everything and anything related to the class, meaning bonus spells, save DCs, highest level of casting, pretty much whatever you can think of. I think the idea is to not punish tieflings for going what would be a logical class route.
On a sidenote, this is a very snazzy feature. It doesn't really power them up in any way, as gnome, human, and halfie sorcerers still have the advantage, but it does keep them being bad at it.
Agreed.. it essentailly is negating their normal racial penalty to Cha.
Creative Director
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A class ability is, basically, shorthand for "everything that taking levels in a class gives you" in this case. So if a tiefling takes a level of sorcerer, his Charisma penalty steps in and makes him less good of a sorcerer than other races. UNLESS he has an abyssal or infernal bloodline, in which case he's treated as NOT having that –2 Charisma racial penalty, effectively.
So yeah; it affects anything and everything that Charisma touches in the sorcerer class.
Note: If you let a Tiefling Sorcerer take the feat from Bastards of Erebus that allows them to change their racial modifiers, this could potentially result in an overall +4 to Charisma, +6 higher than a normal Tiefling (as some of the variant Tieflings get a +2 to Charisma instead of a -2).
I'm sure quite a few GMs are going to say no to a feat that bumps your racial stat to effectively +4 at first level.
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Note: If you let a Tiefling Sorcerer take the feat from Bastards of Erebus that allows them to change their racial modifiers, this could potentially result in an overall +4 to Charisma, +6 higher than a normal Tiefling (as some of the variant Tieflings get a +2 to Charisma instead of a -2).I'm sure quite a few GMs are going to say no to a feat that bumps your racial stat to effectively +4 at first level.
+4 higher than the base Tiefling, but otherwise the stats line up. It is still +2/+2/-2, it just happens one of the +2 on...two of them I think, is in Charisma.
Edit: Oh, you probably mean with the Sorcerer bonus. Yes, that is quite the combination. I have a feeling most DMs will say no as well. Especially when they read the note in Bastards of Erebus that mentions Tieflings are 'a bit more powerful than the core races', with a campaign trait specifically made to change their abilities a bit so they aren't as powerful. Strangely, the +2 charisma thing for Sorcerers bit isn't touched.
To be honest... that whole feat wouldn't make it into my game. One of the things I hated about elves is the fact that there was an elf race that you could munchkin into every PC class... the sun elves for wizard, the moon elves for clerics... this is just too reminiscent of that. If a player wanted a non-standard tiefling in my game he's gonna roll it :)
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The problem is Fiendish Sorcery, not the alternate tiefling variants, which are beyond cool, in my opinion...
In my game I've ruled that if a PC elects to lose fiendish sorcery, he loses the XP penalty listed in the CoT player's guide... that, or he can take "Redeemed (Ex)" instead of Fiendish Sorcery (i.e. considered +2 Cha in terms of all paladin abilities...)
Would the extra Charisma bonus apply to Concentration checks?
Trying again...
Making a concentration check is not a class ability.
Making a concentration check is not a class ability.
Thanks Sean! That's what I thought, but "affects anything and everything that Charisma touches in the sorcerer class." sounds pretty all-encompassing. Thought I'd get a second opinion; an indider's opinion is even better!
Intimidate is not a sorceror class ability either. This is an old thread, by the way.