Anyone know why the following were not included in the PFRPG: Archmage; Blackguard; Dwarven Defender (!); Hierophant; Horizon Walker; and Thaumaturgist?
Obviously I know why Red Wizard (of Thay) didn't make it ;-)
Of those, I'd only miss Blackguard & Dwarven Defender really...
I know some of them were cut because they weren't felt to be thematically distinct enough from 'just a high powered Caster'.
I suspect Dwarven Defender and Horizon Walker were thought to be better dealt with in thematically focused products, like the Dwarven Racial Companion - Given they have alot more ability to add relevant Feats, Equipment, alternate Class Abilities, etc, I think that's probably a good call (if that's their rationale). Since a Dwarven Racial Companion IS scheduled already, I suspect that niche WILL be covered there.
The Horizon Walker I assume was sort-of replaced with the Pathfinder Chronicler (both are sort of wandering-adventurer types, though wildly different abilities). The Thaumaturge I can only suppose was considered too weak a concept (and too unattractive a class pick).
But most interesting, Lord Karzoug has levels in Archmage. So it is a bit of sad that the prestige class didn't make it into the PFRPG.
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So, where did I put this blasted key?
But most interesting, Lord Karzoug has levels in Archmage. So it is a bit of sad that the prestige class didn't make it into the PFRPG.
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Yeah, but if you're running Rise of the Runelords you can continue to use the existing Archmage levels as is. The same is true for the other prestige classes. The Conversion Guide discusses converting other prestige classes (and races/classes/monsters/etc).
I asked Mr. Buhlman about archmage specifically: He said (paraphrase) that "all high level arcane casters are already archmages," so a prestige class didn't really make sense. IIRC he lumped hierophant in there, too. Good riddance.
He also said he was considering doing one or more feat lines that returned some of the archmage mechanics.
Anyone know why the following were not included in the PFRPG: Archmage; Blackguard; Dwarven Defender (!); Hierophant; Horizon Walker; and Thaumaturgist?
Obviously I know why Red Wizard (of Thay) didn't make it ;-)
Of those, I'd only miss Blackguard & Dwarven Defender really...
Archmage and Hierophant went away because they were 'Like X, only more so!'
That is, an Archmage was just a Wizard turned up to 11. Instead, there is more stuff for casters at high level than just spell progression.
So instead of an 'Archmage' being a Wiz15/Archmage5, they can just be a Wiz20.
I understand missing a PrC, but yeah, Archmage and Heirophant were kind of like "I'm taking a prestige class that says I am a high level wizard, the prerequisites of which are that I am a high level wizard . . . "
. . . um . . .
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*poors Mountain Dew on the ground for the Archmage.*
One of the things that make Archmages(Wiz15/Armg5) better than 'Archmages'(Wiz20) was their abilities. Which speciality allows you to shape a spell's area without a metamagic feat? Or making spells into arcane fire? Or making certain spells spell-like abilities usable X number of days?
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I'm actually glad that is the case. Heirophant and Archmage really just created a scenario where the player got to circumvent a lot of the downsides to messing with your magic. (I.E. The spell levels)
Think of this as one way of nerfing Wizards and Clerics back in line with the rest of us.
Blackguard I had long heard was being done up as the evil Paladin, and given the full levels to boot. Expect that to be announced as one of the four new core classes arriving on the scene.
Horizon Walker may show up elsewhere...
Dwarven Defender really makes sense to be thrown into the Dwarven companion.
I still dislike the Elf/Half-Elf requirement on Arcane Archer, I think its rather dumb in my opinion that only elves get magical archers.
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I'm actually glad that is the case. Heirophant and Archmage really just created a scenario where the player got to circumvent a lot of the downsides to messing with your magic. (I.E. The spell levels)
Think of this as one way of nerfing Wizards and Clerics back in line with the rest of us.
Blackguard I had long heard was being done up as the evil Paladin, and given the full levels to boot. Expect that to be announced as one of the four new core classes arriving on the scene.
Horizon Walker may show up elsewhere...
Dwarven Defender really makes sense to be thrown into the Dwarven companion.
I still dislike the Elf/Half-Elf requirement on Arcane Archer, I think its rather dumb in my opinion that only elves get magical archers.
Blackguard is not one of the announced four new base classes...
Thanks for the responses, everyone.
For those of you interested in a Blackguard that may or may not officially show up, I'd highly recommend getting a copy of Dragon #312 for the "Reavers of the Divine" article. It follows #310's "Champions of the Divine". Basically, the Paladin is just the LG version of 1 of 6 holy/unholy warriors; a fantastic idea to my mind. These are 3.5 so it wouldn't take much work to convert them over to PF.
Blackguard is not one of the announced four new base classes...I'm actually glad that is the case. Heirophant and Archmage really just created a scenario where the player got to circumvent a lot of the downsides to messing with your magic. (I.E. The spell levels)
Think of this as one way of nerfing Wizards and Clerics back in line with the rest of us.
Blackguard I had long heard was being done up as the evil Paladin, and given the full levels to boot. Expect that to be announced as one of the four new core classes arriving on the scene.
Horizon Walker may show up elsewhere...
Dwarven Defender really makes sense to be thrown into the Dwarven companion.
I still dislike the Elf/Half-Elf requirement on Arcane Archer, I think its rather dumb in my opinion that only elves get magical archers.
The book is going To have 6 total if I recall
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Blackguard is not one of the announced four new base classes...I seem to remember reading that there are actually 6 new base classes but only 4 of them have been announced.
It doesn't need to be called "Blackguard", it doesn't have to resemble the Blackguard mechanics necessarily, it doesn't even have to be a 20-level class...but somewhere, somehow Pathfinder needs an anti-Paladin class option.
What do we see here? How many choices for a druid that are decent? How many choices for a monk? How about a cleric without taking a HD nick with the Loremaster. How about a ranger that isnt an elf. What about a barbarian?
The problem with the PrC's listed is they are completely arcane caster bloated and completely ignore some other classes. There are 10 PrC's listed and 5 of them require the ability to cast arcane spells.
That's probably because out of all the classes, Arcane Magic users (the real ones, not Bard) are the most narrowly focused in their concept. Stand back, sling a spell, hope to god you don't get hit. Yeah, you can wade into melee- but with a poor BAB and the crappiest HD on the block, why would you?
Yes, it's irritating that half of the classes are Arcane Based, but the arcane casters are the ones who *really* needed it. Want to play a melee cleric? You already get that. Want to play a maneuver cleric? Well, you can already do that, too. How about a ranged cleric who throws shields? I guess you can also do that, too.
What I really think, though, is that Arcane Trickster should be Arcane/Divine, as it makes a lot of sense with the sneakier gods.
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So the argument is that there are no good PrCs for fighter types? Some one needs to tell the Dragon Disciples that...With its requirement to take a level in sorcerer with a specific bloodline I would not call it a fighter focused class.
Though, now that we can have "pretty" half-orcs it might be fun to see half-orc barbarian/sorcerer dragon disciples.
Bard is a better choice. Bard 10/DD10 is really good I'm told, and by a very good gamer/Dm too...
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Dang, Moriartty, you're right -- and that's rather depressing. Heck, there are no prestige classes for fighter types other than the swashbuckler, which is pretty much the opposite archetype to the kind of fighter I've usually enjoyed playing (that is, a tank-like armored monstrosity ;)!).
I have a friend making an assassin fighter, dipped one or two levels into rogue for sneak attack, and plans on running just fighter with a few levels of rogue.
He won't out preform the rogue for damage, but he could keep up easily.
As for Fighter Prestige Classes, Council of Thieves is pushing Hell Knight, which has no arcane requirements.
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So the argument is that there are no good PrCs for fighter types? Some one needs to tell the Dragon Disciples that...With its requirement to take a level in sorcerer with a specific bloodline I would not call it a fighter focused class. Though, now that we can have "pretty" half-orcs it might be fun to see half-orc barbarian/sorcerer dragon disciples.
The arguement is not that there are no good fighter PrCs' The arguement is that PrCs are too arcane focused and some classes are completely ignored.
agreed 100%
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Okay, I can see your point.
Now to light the path to realization. Conversion: there are splat books for a reason.
I know, I know its not Pathfinder. So? Convert the Kensai or Frenzied Berserker for your fighters and barbarians, Black Flame Zealot for your sneaky clerics or Knight of the Chalice for your demon slayers.
You have a problem with the arcane PrCs? Convert the Occult Slayer.
This may not work for you, but it is one solution.
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It doesn't need to be called "Blackguard", it doesn't have to resemble the Blackguard mechanics necessarily, it doesn't even have to be a 20-level class...but somewhere, somehow Pathfinder needs an anti-Paladin class option.Blackguard is not one of the announced four new base classes...I seem to remember reading that there are actually 6 new base classes but only 4 of them have been announced.
At the GenCon seminar, they mentioned that the book coming out at next GenCon does indeed have 6 new base classes in it. It will also have extensive mechanics for customizing and adapting the mechanics for the existing base classes; it was implied that the archmage and hierophant abilities would likely show up as high-level wizard and cleric feats or replacement abilities. I wouldn't doubt that the blackguard will show up there as well, mostly likely as a 20-level paladin replacement option.
Jeremy Puckett