Quick question about insight bonus(es). Do they stack?
Signed,
Curious Diviners with dusty rose ioun stones
No. The majority of bonuses of the same type do not stack. Dodge is one type of bonus that does stack, but Insight bonuses do not.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
Okay.
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The Blessing of the Harrow class ability is incorrect. It should be either a Morale bonus or an Insight bonus, not both. I would recommend Insight, as it makes more sense.
While a bit conflicting with the Diviner's Fortune ability, it isn't too horrible. All the 1st level wizard powers (including Diviner's Fortune) can only be used 3 + int mod times per day in the Final, and the Diviner's Fortune ability itself still only lasts for 1 round. The bonus gained from Blessing of the Harrow, however, lasts 24 hours.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
The Blessing of the Harrow class ability is incorrect. It should be either a Morale bonus or an Insight bonus, not both. I would recommend Insight, as it makes more sense.
While a bit conflicting with the Diviner's Fortune ability, it isn't too horrible. All the 1st level wizard powers (including Diviner's Fortune) can only be used 3 + int mod times per day in the Final, and the Diviner's Fortune ability itself still only lasts for 1 round. The bonus gained from Blessing of the Harrow, however, lasts 24 hours.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
lol... okay. :)
Do insight bonuses to AC apply to Touch Armor Class?
CJ
Check out http://theonlysheet.com/wiki/index.php?title=Advanced_-_Effects#The_Types for list of bonuses.
If its an insight bonus to armor class, then no it would apply to the touch ac, as no armor bonus is used for touch AC.
If its an insight bonus to armor class, then no it would apply to the touch ac, as no armor bonus is used for touch AC.
I also disagree with this. It has always been my interpretation of Insight, Luck, Deflection, Divine, and Sacred bonuses that they apply to touch AC as well as normal and flat-footed.
The only AC bonuses that do not apply to touch are natural armor, shield, and armor.
From the Prd
"When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally."
So the way I read that, is that if you have an bonus to either armor bonus, shield bonus or natural armor bonus (say barkskin which gives an enchantment bonus to natural armor) then those don't count because they are related to the bonus being removed.
Ahh I see why you all have misread me, I meant towards armor bonus, not armor class.
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No. The majority of bonuses of the same type do not stack. Dodge is one type of bonus that does stack, but Insight bonuses do not.
And no matter how many times I tell my PCs that the enhancement bonuses to Dexterity from cat's grace and belts of incredible dexterity don't stack, it always comes as a rude surprise to them.
Would you lose an Insight bonus if you lost Dex to AC???
--Vrockwork Horror
No. You only lose the specified bonuses, which are dodge bonuses, Dexterity bonuses, and a few oddballs.
From the Prd
"When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally."
So the way I read that, is that if you have an bonus to either armor bonus, shield bonus or natural armor bonus (say barkskin which gives an enchantment bonus to natural armor) then those don't count because they are related to the bonus being removed.
Ahh I see why you all have misread me, I meant towards armor bonus, not armor class.
+1 to Ugbash and Peter Stewart.
Yes, you are correct in that they don't apply to the armor BONUS. However, Thelesuit was asking about armor CLASS. Specifically, the touch AC. In addition to Peter's list, I believe there is also: Circumstance bonus, Dodge bonus, Morale Bonus, Racial Bonus (Dwarves vs Giants, etc.), and Profane bonus that can apply to your touch AC. There may be others that I'm not thinking of.
It's easier to list the bonuses that don't apply to touch AC.
To the OP:
Bonuses of the same name usually don't stack. Dodge bonuses and Circumstance bonuses DO stack (unless the various circumstance bonuses are coming from the same source).
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What are the oddballs then? Insight bonuses weren't all that common in Core 3.5, but in the psionics ruleset several powers granted insight bonuses. In their descriptions if you were denied Dex to AC, you lost the insight bonus. Just trying to see if this has come to light in the PFRPG yet?
--Monsters of Vrock tour!
What are the oddballs then? Insight bonuses weren't all that common in Core 3.5, but in the psionics ruleset several powers granted insight bonuses. In their descriptions if you were denied Dex to AC, you lost the insight bonus. Just trying to see if this has come to light in the PFRPG yet?
--Monsters of Vrock tour!
I hate it when my memory cops out on me. I thought monks lost their AC bonus when they lost their Dex bonus, maybe a few other classes.
Insight bonuses in Pathfinder? Foresight, moment of prescience, and the dusty rose ioun stone are the only ones I can think of. Foresight prevents surprise if you use it on yourself and does tell you that you lose the bonus; the ioun stone doesn't say that; moment of prescience goes off and only works against one attack if that's what you want to use it for. No mention of it not applying if you have no Dex bonus to AC.
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Here is what it is for Monks:
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
It is not marked as an insight bonus, but as an untyped bonus. Although, insight would be a good guess if they where going to type it as anything.
What are the oddballs then? Insight bonuses weren't all that common in Core 3.5, but in the psionics ruleset several powers granted insight bonuses. In their descriptions if you were denied Dex to AC, you lost the insight bonus. Just trying to see if this has come to light in the PFRPG yet?
--Monsters of Vrock tour!
I think the only "oddball" bonus that you lose if you are denied your dex bonus is dodge, which was already mentioned. At least, I can't think of any others.
In 3.5 circumstance bonuses did not stack, PFRPG does not specify. Insight bonuses did not stack in 3.5, but they did apply to both touch AC and flat-footed AC.
In 3.5 circumstance bonuses did not stack, PFRPG does not specify. Insight bonuses did not stack in 3.5, but they did apply to both touch AC and flat-footed AC.
I actually think this is incorrect. Or at least not 100% correct. I believe circumstance bonuses DO stack, as long as they are not "from the same source". What that means is rather vague.
For example: having higher ground might give you a +1. Having a sniper scope on your crossbow might give you a +1. Most people would say that those were "different sources". However, would having higher ground be the "same source" as attacking an unmounted opponent from your warhorse? Both imply a height advantage. Would using a sniper scope be the "same source" as using a window ledge to steady the crossbow before the shot? Both imply the use of a non-standard mechanical advantage. That's up to the DM to decide.
Basically, a circumstance bonus is a "catch all" for anything the DM wants to give a bonus for. There is no way a publisher could come up with every possible scenario, so I think the "same source" verbage is intentionally vague.
In 3.5 circumstance bonuses did not stack, PFRPG does not specify. Insight bonuses did not stack in 3.5, but they did apply to both touch AC and flat-footed AC.I actually think this is incorrect. Or at least not 100% correct. I believe circumstance bonuses DO stack, as long as they are not "from the same source". What that means is rather vague.
For example: having higher ground might give you a +1. Having a sniper scope on your crossbow might give you a +1. Most people would say that those were "different sources". However, would having higher ground be the "same source" as attacking an unmounted opponent from your warhorse? Both imply a height advantage. Would using a sniper scope be the "same source" as using a window ledge to steady the crossbow before the shot? Both imply the use of a non-standard mechanical advantage. That's up to the DM to decide.
Basically, a circumstance bonus is a "catch all" for anything the DM wants to give a bonus for. There is no way a publisher could come up with every possible scenario, so I think the "same source" verbage is intentionally vague.
I agree, and it is stated in the book.
Good examples about how circumstance bonus stack in some cases come from many standard skill uses. I.e. The modifiers for climbing.
Could you point me to where they state what type the modifiers to climb are, I'm not seeing it.
Could you point me to where they state what type the modifiers to climb are, I'm not seeing it.
Nah, I was speaking from memory, Climb doesn't even have bonus. I was thinking about the way the Acrobatic skill is worded, but those bonus haven't got any explicit bonus type.