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If I had known when I placed my orders for the Core Rules that the 30 bucks or so that I was paying for 2-day shipping would (by Paizo's own shipping policies) offer no benefit whatsoever, I would surely not have bothered.
Apparently, the less you pay for shipping, the sooner your copy ships. So people are already starting to get their copies, while neither of the copies I ordered have shipped yet, and the one with 2-day shipping hasn't even had a notice that it is due to ship any time soon. That's freaking ridiculous!
I'm not someone who posts to the boards my annoyance with some minor change or lack of minor change in the announced ruleset, but this whole situation is one that merits a rant from me.
I've subscribed to every service Paizo offers, partly for the pdf files, but mostly to show my support for the company. I could get all of these things much cheaper (and with free shipping) through Amazon or some other online source, but my subscriptions help support the company. So, where does Paizo get off cavalierly wasting my money to no benefit. Why did they even offer expedited shipping on this book, if the extra expense only meant your books would be shipped later than everyone else?
I'm thoroughly disgusted.
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You know a politer email to Cosmo about this probably would have gotten you a refund/credit to your account, and not spilled this out in public.
I'm not saying you aren't justified in not liking the situation. Just that sputtering vitroil is not the best way to express it. I'm sure Cosmo will be along at some point to address your complaint (edit: by the aforementioned refund), but until then you're not looking like a very reasonable person.
All I'm saying is give a chance to correct the problem before you go blasting service reps.
Vitriol is a bit of an exaggeration. Heymitch is very frustrated, no doubt. But vitriol is hatred and bitterness; and I'm not getting that from their post.
I'm not also reading any direct attacks against Customer Service staff. Heymitch is angry with the outcome and/or the process...
...but I think people should let Paizo Customer Service Staff handle this one.
I'm mostly just posting to keep it near the top of the forums, and because I have little else to do with my downtime in Iraq. ^_^
And I don't know Watcher, thoroughly disgusted sounds bitter to me.
I should not reply, but I think I need to point out that they answer the boards from the bottom up. That is the oldest posts on the bottom of the pile get answered first and they work their way up. So if Heymitch's post keeps getting bumped to the top, it will take longer for them to get to it. I'm quite serious.
When we weigh in with a lot of editorial opinion we're teaching people not to use the Customer Service boards, but rather to call instead. Because who wants the grief from strangers gettin' in your business, you know?
I'm not saying you're a bad fellow, and I commend your loyalty to Paizo. However sometimes we have to allow "Paizo the Business" to actually be the business. And part of doing business is dealing with frustrated customers.
Just imagine how you'd feel, if back here in the States, you were going to the store and everybody who walked by felt like they had a say in what, where, and how you spent your money, and whether you had a right to be mad about something. It would drive you nuts. I know it would drive me crazy.
Look at Heymitch.. the person must have had a $150 order if they're subscribing to everything.. plus dropping another $30 on extra shipping. Yeah, they wrote a testy post. I won't disagree with you there. But heck.. that's a good customer buying a whole lot of merchandise every month. That doesn't give them the right to talk down to people.. but they're just frustrated. Worried that they wasted their shipping money.
Cosmo and Allison are adults. They can handle it.
Final words.. I'm not on Heymitch's side or anything.. I just think there's a fine line between helping another community member out with some information, and offering editorial opinion. Peace.
I would first like to agree, that I too am a bit upset that some are getting the book FIVE day early.
That said, the shipping options were simple math from the day you ordered. (Math that I apparently failed to see as well) It shouldn't be up to Paizo to explain them (even though I've seen Vic do it on a couple of occasions). You don't see Amazon.com being so active to try to get you the best shipping deals whenever possible!
I don't recall numbers off-hand so please forgive the made up examples:
When you made your purchase you had 4 options:
Next Day Air
UPS Select 2 day
UPS Ground
USPS Priority
Option 1: Next Day Air. Expensive! But it guarantees that your book will arrive Next Day no matter what.
Option 2: UPS Select 2 day. Self explanitory. Not quite as expensive as NDA, but this option will delivery your purchase in 1 or 2 days.
Option 3: UPS Ground. Cheaper, but your purchase will be delivered normally in 3 to 7 days.
Option 4. USPS Priority. Ah the post office! The cheapest option, but your purchase will arrive in 5 to 10 days.
Now NORMALLY paying more for shipping means you get your book faster. But when something has a scheduled release date, it can work backwords.
In order to try to get everyone the book on (and by) the 13th, the people choosing USPS would have their book ship first. Paizo would use their knowledge of what USPS region you're in and ship accordingly. The USPS option always says 5-10 days (again made up for this example), but their warehouse can look at my region and estimate that I'm really only 4 to 9 days. So in an effort to get me my book on the 13th, they'd ship 9 days before the 13th. At that point, it's up to the USPS, who just ships things as fast as they can. Let's say I get lucky and they only take 4 days to ship. Yay me, because I just got my book 5 days early!
If I took Option 3, Paizo would have shipped 7 days early. Option 2, 2 days early. Option 1, 1 day early.
Okay, long-winded example out of the way. I agree that Paizo could have done this differently. They could have said, "We're shipping the book on the 12th!" If you want it on the 13th, pay for Next Day Air. Otherwise, you're getting it after the 13th (unless you're really lucky and option 2, 3, or 4 delivers next day anyway). Hopefully you can see why they didn't do it this way. They wanted as many people to have the book by the 13th as possible. (If they had said that unless you pay $30 for shipping, we can't guarantee you a book before the 15th+, they probably wouldn't have had so many direct sales.)
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heck I live in Oregon (eastern OR actually) & the USPS option means I always got my books (when I had a subscription) 10 days from shipped announcement.
I can see why, the original poster would be upset but at least you'll be getting the pdf with your Paizo purchase (that is if your a PRPG subscriber, not sure if it ties into the overall Superscriber title).
Figure add 9.99 to the entire order if you went with say Amazon, which would bring the order to around $50.00.
Then again, just be glad your getting the hardback. I tried, but the funds just aren't there for me to get it right now.....
RM
I sympathize with your frustration. This same issue has come up on the boards a few times now when some people realized that more expensive shipping did not mean getting the book earlier. The sole consolation is that of reliability - ie the 2 day delivery will almost certainly have the book in your hands on the 13th. Some of those with standard shipping may be lucky and get it a few days early, but many others may not receive it for 5 or more days after the release date. I can guarantee you'll have it before me :( Whether that reliability is worth the extra cost is an individual decision. Its unfortunate you didn't realize the implications earlier when changing your shipping option was still feasible. While the effects of the fixed release date and Paizo's plans on shipping were described in various places on the boards, it probably could have been communicated more globally. On the plus side, Paizo certainly listens and learns from their customers. Future releases will benefit from what they learn from this major release.
If it will make you feel better, my shipment will go out next Tuesday. Then it will take a estimated 9 to 36 business days in transit. Now I have no problem with that at all, but it puts your worries in perspective a bit, don't you think?
Mine is still showing as pending - despatch due some time next week, so if I'm lucky it might be posted before the 13th, and then I've got a 6-10 days transit to the UK apparently.
I'm also still waiting on PF 24 as well so I can't even read that whilst I'm waiting :(
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It's not how Paizo is choosing to ship the title that is my issue. It's that it wasn't explained up front when ordering. If there had been 1. A very obvious mention under the book title's description of how the shipping would work or, 2. An e-mail sent to each customer who selected a faster shipping method, making certain that they knew that they were likely wasting their money, and offering to switch them to standard shipping, or 3. Both of the above, I would have been fine with it.
Instead, offering expedited shipping is (to me) an implicit promise of faster service, not slower service.
The suggestion that it should have been obvious how the shipping would work since it's a new title...well, I'm sorry but it wasn't obvious to me. As far as I knew, all of the copies of the book might have shipped out the day before release, making certain that anyone who paid a premium for shipping would receive the book sooner. When I paid all of that extra money for the title, I certainly expected that there would be some benefit to doing do. I'm not interested in paying extra just to subsidize UPS.
I did have an e-mail exchange with customer service a while back about some confusion on how the Pathfinder RPG subscription would affect prior pre-orders, and at that time I mentioned in my e-mail that I still wanted one copy to be sent 2-day, because I wanted to receive it as soon as possible. That would have been an ideal time to reply with the facts about how the title would ship.
As for posting my frustrations, whether you read vitriol or not, this is the customer service forum. So, it's seems to me that this would be an appropriate place to post concerns about customer service. I have also e-mailed customer service with my issue.
As to seeking a refund for shipping, I didn't write any of this out of a desire for a refund. If money were my only concern, I wouldn't be subscriber. I'd get all of my titles discounted, and with free shipping from another source. I'm writing this because I'm upset. I'm upset entirely out of proportion to the $30 shipping fee. I believe Paizo has a responsibility to their customers (especially since those who deal with them directly knowingly incur higher costs), to ensure that they don't add insult to injury by overcharging them for shipping. They failed me as a customer, and I believe they failed everyone else who paid for expedited shipping on this title. They also (implicitly) promised something that they had no intention of delivering on.
I stand by my right to air my concerns in this forum, because...it's a forum.
Did they ever promise you would get the book any sooner than the 13th?
I believe the promise was that all over night and 2 day orders would be by the 13th and everything else would be as soon as possible.
If you paid 2 day, then you paid to have a promise that you would get it by the 13th. If you do not get it on the 13th then they have not fulfilled their promise. Until then, you have no real basis for complaint.
Yes, some people already have it. I wish I had mine.
But bonus for them. They got lucky. Their luck is not a slight against you.
Show me where they ever said you would get it first. Or that other people getting theirs early awarded you any additional compensation beyond what was promised you.
Everyone bought a box of cracker jack and everyone will get the sticky sweet popcorn and peanuts that they paid for. That the guy three seats down from you got a really cool prize in his box does not diminish the flavor of the popcorn and peanuts you paid for.
Days early is a surprise bonus and you were NOT promised that.
Customer A pays for 2 day shipping on item X.
Customer B pays for 1 week shipping on item X.
Customer B's order immediately ships and arrives in a week.
Customer A's order sits in a warehouse for a week and then ships and arrives in 2 days.
Yup, customer A has nothing to complain about.
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Customer A pays for 2 day shipping on item X.
Customer B pays for 1 week shipping on item X.Customer B's order immediately ships and arrives in a week.
Customer A's order sits in a warehouse for a week and then ships and arrives in 2 days.Yup, customer A has nothing to complain about.
all true... except for Customer B shipment will arrive around a week + or - a few days, while Custmer A will get it in 2 days. That is the only thing customer A gets in this. Guaranteed knowledge of when it will arrive after it is shipped.
That said, not worth the extra cost.
I get everything shipped Standard which takes 4-8 weeks to get to me while priority takes 1-2 weeks to get to me, Still rather wait the longer time then pay the higher price.
It's like Kyle Baird said. It depends on your shipping preference.
Their target date is Aug. 13th. If you paid for 2DA, it'll ship on the 11th. NDA will ship the 12th. An ground shipping UPS, gets there within 4 days anywhere in the country from anywhere in the country.
When you're dealing with the USPS, it's an average of 5-10 days. It could be earlier or later. Paizo has to ship accordingly. With UPS, it's guaranteed. Once the item ships it will be there when it's suppose to be there, or the shipping is free.
I do understand your frustation though. We're using UPS ground. So ours will ship Monday(hopefully) and then show up Friday. While others will be receiving theirs early (or on the target date such as yourself), we'll be waiting. And there will be those still waiting for theirs after we get ours. We use UPS for all are shipping, because the post office lost 2 of are Legacy of Fire AP's. If it gets lost in the mail it's just to bad so sad. Paizo has been wonderful to replace them both for us.
Technically, if you paid for 2DA, it will ship on the 11th and you will receive it on the 13th. Since that is the target date, from a business standpoint, they will give you what you paid for.
Customer A pays for 2 day shipping on item X.
Customer B pays for 1 week shipping on item X.Customer B's order immediately ships and arrives in a week.
Customer A's order sits in a warehouse for a week and then ships and arrives in 2 days.Yup, customer A has nothing to complain about.
all true... except for Customer B shipment will arrive around a week + or - a few days, while Custmer A will get it in 2 days. That is the only thing customer A gets in this. Guaranteed knowledge of when it will arrive after it is shipped.
That said, not worth the extra cost.
I get everything shipped Standard which takes 4-8 weeks to get to me while priority takes 1-2 weeks to get to me, Still rather wait the longer time then pay the higher price.
I agree, but the question is when is it shipped. If Customer A knows that their item will be intentionally delayed an extra week if the pick the faster method, then it is all fair. If they are not informed of that, well, certainly they might feel they have a reason to be upset. If one wanted fairness, they would have delayed shipping any out until when the fastest method would arrive on the release date. Thus the people that are willing to pay more actually get a real benefit.
Customer A pays for 2 day shipping on item X.
Customer B pays for 1 week shipping on item X.Customer B's order immediately ships and arrives in a week.
Customer A's order sits in a warehouse for a week and then ships and arrives in 2 days.Yup, customer A has nothing to complain about.
You left out:
No one expects their order before the 13th.Some orders will arrive early.
Some orders will arrive late.
Customer A's order is guaranteed to arrive by the 13th.
Either customer might get lucky. Customer B might get very unlucky.
What did customer A pay for that they are not getting?
What promise has not been kept?
Does Customer A have the right to expect they would have their book in hand today? tomorrow? Tuesday?
What date is customer A due a book?
Does Customer A have the right to expect they would have their book in hand today? tomorrow? Tuesday?
What date is customer A due a book?
I expect customer A to feel they have the right to be shipped out at the same time as everyone else, and not to be pushed to the back of the line because they choose to pay more.
I can totally understand the outrage.
While it might be okay to intent to ship faster deliveries later, you have to tell people that you want to do that. Either that or not offer the faster shipments.
Otherwise letting people walk into the trap by paying unnecessary shipping costs for a faster delivery that won't come is just wrong.
You can all insult Heymitch over this, but if you do you should be advised that this won't help anyone. In fact, it probably makes Heymitch only more angry, and it becomes more likely that Paizo will lose subscriptions over this.
Thus the people that are willing to pay more actually get a real benefit.
A guarantee is not a benefit?
What you are proposing would only result in maximizing delays for everyone.No one is promised anything before the 13th. Anything you say must accept this starting condition. It is a critical truth. Now, they could hold all the other shipments until after the 11th just to be certain that no one anywhere gets their books before the two day people.
The two day people wouldn't get theirs any sooner. But everyone else would be held up. Would that sate your moral outrage?
And I promise you that the average date of receipt for two day shippers will be far far earlier than for those who paid normal shipping. (Did any of the people with their book pay normal? I don't know. I'd bet no, but maybe I'm wrong.)
But to base this outrage on a tiny fraction of really lucky people is just absurd. Wildly absurd.
If you paid 2 day you have a promise to get the book by the 13th. End of story. If you are upset over not having your book today, the freaking 9th, then you are being entirely unreasonable.
Quit acting like other people's good future in an assault against you.
If you think you could do better, go stand in their warehouse and tell me how you would sort and ship that many books in a perfectly optimized manner. Again, the only result would be that EVERYONE would wait longer.
Jealousy and anger when something good happens to someone else is such a hideous aspect of human nature.
I expect customer A to feel they have the right to be shipped out at the same time as everyone else, and not to be pushed to the back of the line because they choose to pay more.Does Customer A have the right to expect they would have their book in hand today? tomorrow? Tuesday?
What date is customer A due a book?
So every single book should ship on the same day? That is absurd.
Again, show me where a *SHIP* date was promised?
Customer A is NOT BEING HELD UP!!!! A few other people got lucky in that their stuff was shipped early.
Do you REALLY mean "right"? Really?
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I agree, but the question is when is it shipped. If Customer A knows that their item will be intentionally delayed an extra week if the pick the faster method, then it is all fair. If they are not informed of that, well, certainly they might feel they have a reason to be upset. If one wanted fairness, they would have delayed shipping any out until when the fastest method would arrive on the release date. Thus the people that are willing to pay more actually get a real benefit.
Thing is we where informed, Just the method they used may not have been prudent to getting it to everyone, instead of what they did by telling us in the Forums, they should have sent emails to maximise the chance of everyone getting the message.
Otherwise letting people walk into the trap by paying unnecessary shipping costs for a faster delivery that won't come is just wrong.
That is silly. The people who paid for faster shipping will get their books faster.
Thing is we where informed, Just the method they used may not have been prudent to getting it to everyone, instead of what they did by telling us in the Forums, they should have sent emails to maximise the chance of everyone getting the message.
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Thing is we where informed, Just the method they used may not have been prudent to getting it to everyone, instead of what they did by telling us in the Forums, they should have sent emails to maximise the chance of everyone getting the message.
Posting something in the message boards is not informing someone. You can't assume everyone checks the boards all the time.
You have to personally and actively contact someone to inform them. Unless you're the Vogons.
Otherwise letting people walk into the trap by paying unnecessary shipping costs for a faster delivery that won't come is just wrong.That is silly. The people who paid for faster shipping will get their books faster.
Nope. Because their books will be shipped later. That was the idea: If your shipping takes 2 days, your book will be shipped on the 11th. If it takes 5 days, on the 8th.
They didn't send it all on the 8th (or any other day).
Yeah, sure, they cannot sell it all on the same day, but they didn't randomly send everything regardless of shipping method, either. The plan was to send slower stuff first, to select them and actively send them first, so everything gets there at the same time.
Which, from the point of view of someone who shelled out extra money to get the stuff earlier, is almost criminal. Especially if no one told them.
You can all deny that there's a problem, and drive a superscriber away from the boards (and make that superscriber mad enough by adding insult to injury, and you might just cost Paizo some subscriptions. Do you think Paizo will still love you then?
I expect customer A to feel they have the right to be shipped out at the same time as everyone else, and not to be pushed to the back of the line because they choose to pay more.Does Customer A have the right to expect they would have their book in hand today? tomorrow? Tuesday?
What date is customer A due a book?So every single book should ship on the same day? That is absurd.
Again, show me where a *SHIP* date was promised?
Customer A is NOT BEING HELD UP!!!! A few other people got lucky in that their stuff was shipped early.
Do you REALLY mean "right"? Really?
I've given up refraining from posting in this thread, since no one else is..
There is a perception that by paying an expensive premium on shipping that one will receive your product sooner. An important question to ask in this case is: Is that perception valid? I think by a reasonable standard it is.
No one can show you when a ship date was promised. However, the argument that Heymitch is making is that no one told him that by paying extra money that it would not get there any sooner. He/She feels that the vendor did not look out for his/her best interests by allowing them to select a shipping option that would not serve the purpose for which it was intended (getting the product sooner).
Honestly, I'm surprised that you're having difficulty understanding Heymitch's frustration. They're not seeing good value for the money they spent.
Yes.. yes.. yes. Those that got their books early got "lucky". I quite understand that.
Heymitch probably feels that their $30.00 entitled them to some "good luck" too. By the letter of the law it did not, but you're hard pressed to convince me that their frustration is unwarranted.
BryonD said it best. You have to start with the target date. You paid for the faster shipping because you wanted it on time. I'm guessing when you decided to do this, you wanted to make sure you got it by the 13th.
Since some are receiving it earlier, you feel like you're getting robbed. But intially, your expectation was the 13th(again guessing).
Now let's say you didn't pay for the faster shipping. You just went ground USPS. And say Paizo shipped it out on the 7th. I would guess you would still be looking at the 13th because that is the target date. If it were to show up early or on time, then it's all good. But if it were a week late, you would probably feel as you do now. With the USPS, it gets there when it gets there.
That's why, IMO, you chose the faster shipping so you knew you would get it on time. The point of faster shipping is to get it earlier. I totally get that. And when ordering stuff online, you should get it earlier than ground. But when there's a target date involved for a product to hit the consumers, and you pay for a guaranteed service by that date, odds are high it will arrive at that time.
Again with the USPS, it's a crapshoot. Instead of taking the gamble you wanted to make sure you got it by the 13th and no later.
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I think that before this issue gets to out of hand someone from Paizo should say or do something to try to put out this fire.
There have been similar shipping issues with Amazon. My Friend already has it I am waiting to get mine at my FLGS.
I think the Paizo staff are all away from their keyboards, either packing or recovering from late nights spent packing. It is Sunday after all. Can't we wait until Monday to break out the flamethrowers?
Heymitch, I urge you to contact customer service directly, if you haven't done so. They have a phone number and an email-adress.
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Heymitch, I urge you to contact customer service directly, if you haven't done so. They have a phone number and an email-adress.
I would agree with this. It will also prevent all the add-on comments from breaking out into a war. I'd recommend the e-mail over phone as it's a Sunday, so the office isn't likely to be busy, but they might check their e-mails.
Heymitch, I urge you to contact customer service directly, if you haven't done so. They have a phone number and an email-adress.I would agree with this. It will also prevent all the add-on comments from breaking out into a war. I'd recommend the e-mail over phone as it's a Sunday, so the office isn't likely to be busy, but they might check their e-mails.
And if not, it gets there first thing in the morning.
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I think the Paizo staff are all away from their keyboards, either packing or recovering from late nights spent packing. It is Sunday after all. Can't we wait until Monday to break out the flamethrowers?I think that before this issue gets to out of hand someone from Paizo should say or do something to try to put out this fire.
There have been similar shipping issues with Amazon. My Friend already has it I am waiting to get mine at my FLGS.
I am not looking for Flamethrowers just Fire Extinguishers, As long as I get my book I don't care.
Please let customer service handle this issue and stop posting to this thread. The last thing we need is a flame war in a customer service thread. I'd hate to have to lock this thread just to let customer service get it's fair shake at explaining/resolving this issue.
No more posts please.
The book was not scheduled to be released until August 13th. Rather than just start shipping orders on the 13th, so that customers who had pre-orders and subscribers received their books way after the release date while customers who did not pre-order could pick their books up from stores the 13th or the 14th, we decided to ship them early, and we would stagger the shipping so that customers would receive their orders on or around the 13th.
This did, in fact, mean that customers who selected a cheaper shipping method had their orders ship sooner.
However, this does not mean there was no benefit to selecting a faster shipping method. Customers who shipped their orders via UPS could track their orders (and their packages are insured), and those who selected 2nd Day or Next Day Air would have a guaranteed delivery date (while customers whose orders shipped via cheaper methods do not have guaranteed delivery dates, and for domestic orders, these orders could show up between two to three weeks later than estimated).
We apologize that you were not satisfied with the shipping for this product, and that you do not feel you had been told of our shipping arrangement. Admittedly, most of the discussion on this topic was in the messageboards. However, we did state in our store blog (and subsequently in our newsletter): "Our August 13 release date is fast approaching. If you get your Core Rulebook Preorder or Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscription in by July 31, we'll do our level best to get your book out to you in time to arrive near the release date!"
Again, we are very sorry that you were not happy with the shipping for this product. We are doing our best to ensure that customers do receive the books as closely to the release date as possible. The shipping process has, unfortunately, been taking longer than we anticipated, but our warehouse staff has been working very hard to get the orders shipped as quickly as they can.
However, we did state in our store blog (and subsequently in our newsletter): "Our August 13 release date is fast approaching. If you get your Core Rulebook Preorder or Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscription in by July 31, we'll do our level best to get your book out to you in time to arrive near the release date!"
I must say that I don't really consider that enough notice. Not everyone gets the newsletter, not everyone looks at the blog all the time.
Can't be changed now, but next time you do something like this (or anything else customers really should be informed), you should really send emails out.
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However, we did state in our store blog (and subsequently in our newsletter): "Our August 13 release date is fast approaching. If you get your Core Rulebook Preorder or Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscription in by July 31, we'll do our level best to get your book out to you in time to arrive near the release date!"I must say that I don't really consider that enough notice. Not everyone gets the newsletter, not everyone looks at the blog all the time.
Can't be changed now, but next time you do something like this (or anything else customers really should be informed), you should really send emails out.
They did send emails out on the same day. It was in the newsletter. Thats where I first seen it.
They did send emails out on the same day. It was in the newsletter. Thats where I first seen it.
Did they send separate emails, or do you mean that it was in the newsletter?
Not everyone gets that newsletter, and I think stuff like this warrants a separate email.
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It was in the newsletter, I have no idea if they sent out other emails or not. Since mine was set to normal shipping I wouldn't have gotten a special email about it.
But while I understand everyone is not part of the newsletter. I think they honestly should. It is not like it clogs up the email box and important information is often shared that way.
I am not saying people don't have a reason to be angry, nor that paizo couldn't have done a better job. I was only pointing out that did try and get the info out and considering how busy they are, I mean the CEO is packing boxes past work hours. That people should cut them a little slack, since they did send out a mass email in the newsletter and posted about it in the forum.
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They did send emails out on the same day. It was in the newsletter. Thats where I first seen it.Did they send separate emails, or do you mean that it was in the newsletter?
Not everyone gets that newsletter, and I think stuff like this warrants a separate email.
actually KaeYoss.. since the book is to be released in August 13th... I don't much reason to debate since they had no compromise to get deliver it before that date.
yes its a service they are giving... the complain is because some people got lucky and the mail system worked well... so because for once the mail system did something right poeple gets to complain about Paizo's policy to deliver?
as Alison stated, priority mail and others have a way to track them, have insurance and will be delivered on date...
its not like they had to tell us that they will be shipping it late because there was something abd and they had to release it 2 weeks after the release date... that would warrant an email.
the thing about how they were shipping it? well that is what the newsweek is for
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I don't begrudge any customer their copy of the game, if they were lucky enough to get it early. I also don't take issue with Paizo's decision to try to get the book to as many people as possible on or near the release date. Frankly, I actually admire that decision.
My problem was (and is) the method that Paizo chose to notify it's customers of this shipping policy. I primarily visit Paizo's website to use their storefront. I am an infrequent reader and poster to the boards, and I only occasionally read the blog, but I did provide Paizo with my e-mail address when I placed my order. When Paizo ships an order to me, they send me an e-mail. I don't have to stumble across that information on a message board. This decision (which, again, I applaud) nonetheless had an impact on my order, and I feel that Paizo should have notified me by e-mail (along with everyone else who selected a form of expedited shipping) to ensure that we understood how the decision would affect our order. Instead, I found out about the shipping policy by happenstance this weekend.
I'm a big fan of Paizo's publications, and I have made the decision to buy directly from them because I want to do my part to support the company. I think I'm averaging about an order a week with them, and I've never before had an issue or a complaint.
How did I think the book would ship? Frankly, I didn't expect it to ship at all until right before the 13th. I chose 2-day shipping not because I wanted to track my package, but because I hoped to get it on the 14th. Because of Paizo's decision, I and everyone else are likely to get our copies much sooner. That part is all good, but had I known that the extra money I was spending for shipping would be (largely) for nothing, that the book would just ship later as a result of my choice, I would have saved my money. In fact, since I had another copy coming from Paizo with my subscription, and that copy is likely to arrive on or around the 13th anyway (and not a week or two later, as I'd thought when I placed the order), I could have ordered my second copy from Amazon, gotten it whenever, and (with free shipping) saved almost $50 on the book.
I have no doubt that my orders from Paizo in the past year amount to a couple of thousand dollars, so the money I'm talking about saving is a drop in the bucket, but I still feel let down by the company. One e-mail to me from Paizo, and I wouldn't be having this conversation.
One last thought...since shipping the book Next Day Air is $64.40, and 2nd Day Air is $32.30, how would a customer benefit from Next Day Air? Both packages can be tracked, and the Next Day Air package would just languish in a warehouse for an extra day. What would that customer be getting for the extra $32? Can't UPS Ground shipments be tracked? And if they ship out 2 to 3 days earlier than 2nd Day Air, why not just spend $12 on shipping, instead of $32 or $64?
I think it would help avoid problems for other customers, and in future major releases with a hard ship date, if Paizo considered the possibility that a customer requesting expedited shipping may be a red flag that the customer doesn't understand their shipping policy with regard to these particular titles, and that it may not be accurate to assume that every customer they have reads their blog consistently or frequents their message boards regularly. An e-mail generated to everyone who requests faster shipping, making certain that they understand that faster shipping doesn't necessarily equate to faster receipt of a title would go a long way towards preventing experiences like mine.
Having said all of that, I have every expectation that when I do have my copy of Pathfinder in hand, it will have been worth the wait.
actually KaeYoss.. since the book is to be released in August 13th... I don't much reason to debate since they had no compromise to get deliver it before that date.
This is irrelevant.
yes its a service they are giving... the complain is because some people got lucky and the mail system worked well... so because for once the mail system did something right poeple gets to complain about Paizo's policy to deliver?
No, it is not because of people getting lucky.
as Alison stated, priority mail and others have a way to track them, have insurance and will be delivered on date...
None of these were relevant to the decision to use that shipping option.
its not like they had to tell us that they will be shipping it late because there was something abd and they had to release it 2 weeks after the release date... that would warrant an email.
It's not that hard to understand, is it?
Let me repeat it all:
Customer choose expensive shipping mainly/solely for the purpose of getting the product earlier than with less expensive shipment.
Assuming that more expensive shipments (listing a shorter delivery time) are faster is very reasonable. That's how things virtually always work. In fact, it's implied in the listed numbers.
BUT:
In this case, it was not the case, because they were holding up more expensive shipments so everything would arrive on time.
The main reason (and, in fact, the only reason) the customer chose the more expensive shipping method did no longer apply.
That means that the customer was paying money he would get no actual use out of.
If something like that happens, you have to take reasonable measures to make sure that people know about it.
Sending out a newsletter - something that normally only contains advertising - isn't reasonable. People can choose not to receive that newsletter.
In this case, it's pretty much a given that they send an actual email to everyone and inform people of this circumstance.
You can argue all year that you'd have a more reliable shipping date and tracking, but the customer didn't choose this for tracking or a more reliable shipping date. He choose it based on the (very reasonable) assumption that it would arrive faster than otherwise.
So he paid good money for nothing he wanted. In fact, he paid good money for a disadvantage, because chances are good that he would have already received the shipment with a cheaper method.
I think it's very important that Paizo realises that they could have done better and correct this for future occurances.
Accusing people of being envious solves nothing.
the thing about how they were shipping it? well that is what the newsweek is for
I could get all of these things much cheaper (and with free shipping) through Amazon...
Most of us who ordered Amazon are staring at September 8th SHIP dates if not even later... free shipping and discounted pre-order is not always the answer.
There have been similar shipping issues with Amazon. My Friend already has it I am waiting to get mine at my FLGS.
Your friend used Amazon and received his already? I'm not really upset about not getting the book early, but I would like to get it on time rather than a month or two from now. I could've paid the $10 difference and got it from my FLGS as well. I may just yet if Amazon doesn't get that crap situated... Sept. 8th is a few gaming weekends(at the FLGS) away, one easy cancel button away.
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I don't begrudge any customer their copy of the game, if they were lucky enough to get it early. I also don't take issue with Paizo's decision to try to get the book to as many people as possible on or near the release date. Frankly, I actually admire that decision.
and lots of other things
point taken, I myself decide not to take the fastest shipping because i have always decided to wait a week or more to get my things, to spend a bit less
and understandable I mentioned the insurance and tracking, because at elast for me and a few friends is important... we know the mail sysstem is NOT perfect, and we have los shipments like that,fortunately when that happens the eprson or company takes the responsability and we have either gotten a refund or we have gotten the shipment again...
but in a 130 or 150 shippment I take NO chances... at least in my case I want to know it safe
but of coruse, that is my take on things, everyone of us value different things.
and no I don't begrudge how you reacted, but its fun to discuss sometimess with Kaeyoss, we all have the right to rant once in a while
just understand the poeple in every forum will start a flamewar with the leastcombustible you give them, here they are usually calm, but as you can see... they are never short :P
One last thought...since shipping the book Next Day Air is $64.40, and 2nd Day Air is $32.30, how would a customer benefit from Next Day Air? Both packages can be tracked, and the Next Day Air package would just languish in a warehouse for an extra day. What would that customer be getting for the extra $32? Can't UPS Ground shipments be tracked? And if they ship out 2 to 3 days earlier than 2nd Day Air, why not just spend $12 on shipping, instead of $32 or $64?
Interesting questions. That is a bit of quandry. If you get the exact same benefits (insurance, guaranteed delivery, tracking), what other benefits would you be getting?
Chief Technical Officer
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Folks,
You're right—it is reasonable to expect that people who are paying for faster shipping are going to get books faster, and we did not do a good job communicating that this wasn't necessarily the case in this circumstance. And by "we," I mean "me." It's frankly just not something I thought about, partly because I was busily thinking about all of the other stuff related to this giant shipping project, and partly because, historically, very few people ever use the expedited shipping methods here. And for that, I apologize.
I'd also like to mention that some people are suggesting that faster shipping methods offer guaranteed delivery on a specific date, and that isn't strictly true.
When you place an order that ships outside of a subscription, you're given two date ranges regarding shipping: a range of dates when we expect it to leave our warehouse, and a range of dates based on the delivery service. Total shipping time is always a combination of the two. While the Express delivery services may have a single date instead of a range, the warehouse shipping time is *always* a range, so the total shipping time is therefore also always a range.
In the case of subscription shipments, you don't get a range for the warehouse shipping time, but you *do* get a "will ship by" date. The actual shipment can go out before that date, so if you add the shipping time to the "ships by" date, you'll get the latest date that the package should arrive, but it will often arrive before that date. That holds true even for the staggered shipping method we're using for the RPG. The "ships by" date given was the 11th, so if you ordered 2-day shipping, you should get it *no later than* the 13th, but you may get it earlier.
Now, that said, even with the staggered shipping plan, many, many people who chose standard delivery will probably not get their book on the release date. Because standard shipping has tremendous variability in delivery time, some folks will get them early—even *very* early, as we're seeing, while some folks will get them late—and I'm sure we'll see in the coming weeks that some folks will get them *very* late.
So, folks who paid for express shipping on the RPG may or may not get their book any earlier than the release date, but they also shouldn't get their book *later* than the release date, and that's not true of other shipping methods.
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So, folks who paid for express shipping on the RPG may or may not get their book any earlier than the release date, but they also shouldn't get their book *later* than the release date, and that's not true of other shipping methods.
Even those for orders still showing "pending"? is USPS Priority considered express?
I didn't receive a "your order will ship by" email.