I was wondering about GP limits of locations. Is it the per goods/service cost limit, or the total item limit?
For example, assuming I was in a city with a 3500gp limit, I could obviously not easily acquire Bracers of Armor +2 (value of 4000gp) as they exceed that limit. However, assuming that I possessed a Bracers of Armor +1 - could I pay the necessary enchanting services 3000gp to increase my +1 bracers to +2 bracers?
I argue that it should be possible as the individual service of purchasing an enchantment is subject to the same GP limit and an upgrade enchantment from +1 to +2 bracers costs 3000gp.
Thanks for the help :)
Creative Director
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I was wondering about GP limits of locations. Is it the per goods/service cost limit, or the total item limit?
For example, assuming I was in a city with a 3500gp limit, I could obviously not easily acquire Bracers of Armor +2 (value of 4000gp) as they exceed that limit. However, assuming that I possessed a Bracers of Armor +1 - could I pay the necessary enchanting services 3000gp to increase my +1 bracers to +2 bracers?
I argue that it should be possible as the individual service of purchasing an enchantment is subject to the same GP limit and an upgrade enchantment from +1 to +2 bracers costs 3000gp.
Thanks for the help :)
The GP limits are an artificial method to prevent powerful magic from entering the game easier. As a result, I would say that it should be the total value of the item that limits it. Put another way, although you might only need to pay 3,000 gp to get those bracers enhanced... the bracers themselves are still valued at 4,000 gp and thus over the town's GP limit and thus should not be available.
Of course, the GM can rule either way, but that's the GM's job.
Thanks :)
A bit unfortunate news, but that's just how the cookie crumbles ;)
From my understanding the GP limit represents all and any items that are readily available at a city; implying that with suitable time and money anything can be commissioned.
As a DM I'd rule that more expensive items are available, but require appropriate time to acquire. Given the +1 Bracer's example above it would thus be possible for characters to hand-in their bracers and have them enchanted in the course of about a week (reckoning about 1 day per 1000gp and a few extra days for redtape and admin).
If a character is happy to wait that long (and perhaps pay a small commission fee, and so forth) then the enchantment should be no trouble. Naturally the item isn't available for quests and adventures undertaken during this time.
Regardless of all that - no single cost can exceed the GP limit of a city. Thus upgrading +2 to +3 bracers wouldn't be possible in the example, as the enchantment cost of 5000gp just isn't available at the GP limit.
I'd say it's not a good example, as you're not out to buy those +2 bracers.
I consider the GP limits for towns to be the maximum price something you can easily obtain can have.
Meaning: If the limit is 4000, the chances you can just walk into a shop and buy it off the shelf are rather good (though of course, uncommon or customised stuff is exempt: even if you're in the Capital of the Multiverse with a limit of twenty million GP, finding a +7 throwing returning hellsteel guisarme of holy power won't be that easy).
Stuff beyond the limit, specialised stuff and exotics might have to be ordered or custom-made (if anyone can obtain or create them at all), taking more time than just a bit of looking around.
So if you want to have your old bracers upgraded, you'll have to commision the work, anyway.
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I really really hate to say it, but I agree with the evil jester above.
I have always used the GP limit as what you can find laying about on the shelves of Sir Kay's Mart-o-Magic, or at Wally's Magic Mart (the two big magic retailers found in even the smallest hamlet). Anything else is essentially a commission and falls into the realm of playing the game.
If you had the feat required to upgrade the bracers then I'd say your in luck, the town supports your ability to pay 3k to upgrade. But lacking doing it yourself I'd say good luck. First is there someone in town who can upgrade the item (just because I can buy bracers +1 in town doesn't mean someone in town made them). Second is the person busy. Third are they willing to work for you. Fourth will they need the money upfront (and possibly rip you off). Basically for you to get them enchanted it's time for some RP action.
One good reason to have the craft feats is this right here.
we all know dwarves are the most AWEBAD race around
awebad obviously meaning awful and bad.
But back to GP limits.
If you had the feat required to upgrade the bracers then I'd say your in luck, the town supports your ability to pay 3k to upgrade.
Actually, since there are no "+1 to +2 bracers upgrade kits" for sale anywhere, and the money goes to a number of materials, I think the GP limit doesn't apply to that, not in this way.
I'm sure that even though a town has a limit of, say, only 10000gp, I could easily find everything I'd need to create a belt of awesome strength +6 (which costs 18000 in raw materials and stuff)
But lacking doing it yourself I'd say good luck. First is there someone in town who can upgrade the item (just because I can buy bracers +1 in town doesn't mean someone in town made them). Second is the person busy. Third are they willing to work for you. Fourth will they need the money upfront (and possibly rip you off). Basically for you to get them enchanted it's time for some RP action.One good reason to have the craft feats is this right here.
I'd say the time issue can actually speak for employing others for this: While they create the stuff, you're free to use your time differently. You can even order this, go adventuring, and then come back.
Ripoffs shouldn't be a common occurance because it wouldn't make sense for someone who makes big gils creating magic on commission to be untrustworthy, as this would hurt his business (and for the metagame reason of not turning the players paranoid and real-world violent towards the GM ;-).
So once you find someone, and he's not busy, he's as slow as you would be.
I must note that it is most curious that the items I want the players to have the least are for some reason often incidentally the same items that are the hardest to obtain or take the longest time in making :)
even if you're in the Capital of the Multiverse with a limit of twenty million GP, finding a +7 throwing returning hellsteel guisarme of holy power won't be that easy).
Welcome to Sigil General Store!
Hand of Vecna? Sure, it's in stock. Check out the closeout sale on Heads of Vecna, while you're looking.
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But back to GP limits.
If you had the feat required to upgrade the bracers then I'd say your in luck, the town supports your ability to pay 3k to upgrade.Actually, since there are no "+1 to +2 bracers upgrade kits" for sale anywhere, and the money goes to a number of materials, I think the GP limit doesn't apply to that, not in this way.
I'm sure that even though a town has a limit of, say, only 10000gp, I could easily find everything I'd need to create a belt of awesome strength +6 (which costs 18000 in raw materials and stuff)
But lacking doing it yourself I'd say good luck. First is there someone in town who can upgrade the item (just because I can buy bracers +1 in town doesn't mean someone in town made them). Second is the person busy. Third are they willing to work for you. Fourth will they need the money upfront (and possibly rip you off). Basically for you to get them enchanted it's time for some RP action.One good reason to have the craft feats is this right here.
I'd say the time issue can actually speak for employing others for this: While they create the stuff, you're free to use your time differently. You can even order this, go adventuring, and then come back.
Ripoffs shouldn't be a common occurance because it wouldn't make sense for someone who makes big gils creating magic on commission to be untrustworthy, as this would hurt his business (and for the metagame reason of not turning the players paranoid and real-world violent towards the GM ;-).
So once you find someone, and he's not busy, he's as slow as you would be.
One thing to consider if you hire someone to make a magic item for you is that they will want the full amount of gold up front. If the guy is smart enough to be making magic items, he's smart enough to know you're an adventurer and to realize your chances of coming back to collect the item and pay the balance are pretty slim. If half the price is just in materials he wants to make a profit for his time, not just cover costs.
Why do you think there are so many magic items available for sale? The sucker who paid for the commission is now dead and it's laying around and can be sold for some REAL profit assuming the right sucker, I mean adventurer ever comes along and wants it. And there is no guarantee the item will ever find a buyer so better get what you can now.
One thing to consider if you hire someone to make a magic item for you is that they will want the full amount of gold up front. If the guy is smart enough to be making magic items, he's smart enough to know you're an adventurer and to realize your chances of coming back to collect the item and pay the balance are pretty slim. If half the price is just in materials he wants to make a profit for his time, not just cover costs.
Why do you think there are so many magic items available for sale? The sucker who paid for the commission is now dead and it's laying around and can be sold for some REAL profit assuming the right sucker, I mean adventurer ever comes along and wants it. And there is no guarantee the item will ever find a buyer so better get what you can now.
I disagree. I'm certain the person making it would request half up front, and a specific time limit. If you don't return within, say, twice the amount of time it takes to make the item (or withing 2 weeks of your designated time) then the item becomes his to sell.
He might be worried about lost time, but since time is proportionate to value, it's actually in his interest to hope you don't come back by the appointed time. In fact, an Evil GM (TM) (Copyright Pending) could have him hire someone to make sure the character doesn't come back if the item is especially valuable (say worth 50K gp). He's not out material, and he's got a very good chance of getting fully paid.
For example, if the material cost was 3000, and you owed him 3000, you are likely going to come back if at all possible, you don't want to lose 3K any more than he does. If you don't come back by the appointed time, he can sell the item for 3000 (half the normal list price) and make all his owed money, since he's not out the cost of materials to make it. He could even sell it for 4500 (75% list price) and make a huge profit. Why wouldn't he take that chance? It's a win-win for him.
One thing to consider if you hire someone to make a magic item for you is that they will want the full amount of gold up front. If the guy is smart enough to be making magic items, he's smart enough to know you're an adventurer and to realize your chances of coming back to collect the item and pay the balance are pretty slim. If half the price is just in materials he wants to make a profit for his time, not just cover costs.
Why do you think there are so many magic items available for sale? The sucker who paid for the commission is now dead and it's laying around and can be sold for some REAL profit assuming the right sucker, I mean adventurer ever comes along and wants it. And there is no guarantee the item will ever find a buyer so better get what you can now.
No, you've got it backward, and MDT's answer, while partially right, is overthinking it.
Suppose you want a +2 sword, price 8,315gp. Mr. Town Mage asks for 4, 160 up front. You pay that and he gets to work. Off you go to a dungeon, but you die, and never return.
Eventually, Mr. Town Mage puts that sword for sale at the FULL list price of 8,315gp. Why? Well, that's what it is worth. He doesn't have to tell his next customer that the cost of making the sword was paid for by your dead adventurer self. And there is no reason for him to give a discount.
Net result, you covered the material cost and Mr. Town Mage sells the sword for 100% profit.
Sure, this may not be true of everything. Some items are weird, or specialized, and may be very difficult to sell for full price. Maybe the town gets into an economical slump and Mr. Town Mage sells the +2 sword at a discount. Whatever - those are all situational; the general idea is still valid.
So, in short, you bet the local enchanter talent is jumping at the chance to make (most) magical items for adventurers with just half paid up front.
But, of course, that doesn't mean they won't ask for full payment up front. Hey, if 100% profit is good, imagine how good 150% profit is...
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One thing to consider if you hire someone to make a magic item for you is that they will want the full amount of gold up front. If the guy is smart enough to be making magic items, he's smart enough to know you're an adventurer and to realize your chances of coming back to collect the item and pay the balance are pretty slim. If half the price is just in materials he wants to make a profit for his time, not just cover costs.
Why do you think there are so many magic items available for sale? The sucker who paid for the commission is now dead and it's laying around and can be sold for some REAL profit assuming the right sucker, I mean adventurer ever comes along and wants it. And there is no guarantee the item will ever find a buyer so better get what you can now.
I disagree. I'm certain the person making it would request half up front, and a specific time limit. If you don't return within, say, twice the amount of time it takes to make the item (or withing 2 weeks of your designated time) then the item becomes his to sell.
He might be worried about lost time, but since time is proportionate to value, it's actually in his interest to hope you don't come back by the appointed time. In fact, an Evil GM (TM) (Copyright Pending) could have him hire someone to make sure the character doesn't come back if the item is especially valuable (say worth 50K gp). He's not out material, and he's got a very good chance of getting fully paid.
For example, if the material cost was 3000, and you owed him 3000, you are likely going to come back if at all possible, you don't want to lose 3K any more than he does. If you don't come back by the appointed time, he can sell the item for 3000 (half the normal list price) and make all his owed money, since he's not out the cost of materials to make it. He could even sell it for 4500 (75% list price) and make a huge profit. Why wouldn't he take that chance? It's a win-win for him.
true, except, unless the item in question is the all common +1 longsword you cannot be sure a buyer will drop by in a reasonable time. He has other expenses besides just the materials he will need to cover, such as food, shelter, clothes. That item MIGHT sell tomorrow or it just might set on the shelf for 2 months or 2 years. The longer it sits there the bigger loss he takes on it.
If I were a crafter I would not be interested in starving for 2 years and THEN finally making some money.
Another thing to consider is supply. "You come to me wanting a +3 natural armor bracer. Okay. Pay me in full up front. No? Okay find someone else to make that for you then. You're back again? What? They asked for full price up front too? Imagine that. Yep there are just three of us in this city that can make that for you. Yeah I have supper with them every friday night. Good guys really. Now, you going to keep wasting my time or are we going to talk business?"
and don't tell me they won't hang out. I was a photographer for 15 years. I had dinner and hung out with my competition all the time.
But they're not taking a loss.
50% of going price is 100% of crafting costs.
If the player's have the Craft Feats themselves, they obviously will tend to seek out arrangements to rent 'workshop-space' from the relevant crafter in town. Technically, the same GP limit applies, but since in this case the PCs are only purchasing the material costs, they can in effect Craft Items whose going price is 2x the GP limit (= benefit of the Feat).
I would heavily encourage roleplaying this interaction (it only adds depth to the game, introducing a community of magic users - if they are in a settlement where they would be 'public enemies' at large, deception may be necessary to arrange a workshop to rent, but that's true for ALL their interactions in such a settlement). I think it's reasonable to include the "workshop rental fee" as covered by the crafting costs already.
But back to GP limits.
If you had the feat required to upgrade the bracers then I'd say your in luck, the town supports your ability to pay 3k to upgrade.Actually, since there are no "+1 to +2 bracers upgrade kits" for sale anywhere, and the money goes to a number of materials, I think the GP limit doesn't apply to that, not in this way.
I'm sure that even though a town has a limit of, say, only 10000gp, I could easily find everything I'd need to create a belt of awesome strength +6 (which costs 18000 in raw materials and stuff)
I don't agree if no one in town could make the +6 belt then in all likihood the mats for it are not easily obtained since well no one needs them. Prehaps the quanity of mats isn't around or some special rare mat you would find in a bigger city isn't of much use in the smaller city and so you can't find it.
But lacking doing it yourself I'd say good luck. First is there someone in town who can upgrade the item (just because I can buy bracers +1 in town doesn't mean someone in town made them). Second is the person busy. Third are they willing to work for you. Fourth will they need the money upfront (and possibly rip you off). Basically for you to get them enchanted it's time for some RP action.One good reason to have the craft feats is this right here.
I'd say the time issue can actually speak for employing others for this: While they create the stuff, you're free to use your time differently. You can even order this, go adventuring, and then come back.
Ripoffs shouldn't be a common occurance because it wouldn't make sense for someone who makes big gils creating magic on commission to be untrustworthy, as this would hurt his business (and for the metagame reason of not turning the players paranoid and real-world violent towards the GM ;-).
So once you find someone, and he's not busy, he's as slow as you would be.
Sense motive would obviously be of great help here to deal with those trying to rip you off, but lacking it you might find yourself burned a few times, after all sorcerers have bluff as an in class skill and yet aren't bloody likely to be making magic items as often as say mages who get more feats for such things.
Part of this is that I still have a had time after all this time of accepting the way magic items now work. The idea that it is expected that players can buy gear still has me not always thrilled. The fact you can pick up a mithril chain shirt in most podunk towns still awes me. I accept it when running AP (RotRL now on book 3 near the end) but honestly I still find it well unfortunate. What is a legendary weapon when everyone is expected to be able to buy something like a +4 sword at most large cities.....off the shelves of the local Magic-Wallmart....
Anyway I still think there has to be some difficulty in obtaining magic items for gold, and I still don't think the rules mean everything under the "gold limit" of a town/city is really available for your shopping PCs without some effort to find it and even then some odd things (like arrows of slaying dragons) might not be easy to find at all since the market is so limited for their use. Of course that assumes the town doesn't face dragon attacks if it does well they be common as dirt.
What is a legendary weapon when everyone is expected to be able to buy something like a +4 sword at most large cities.....off the shelves of the local Magic-Wallmart...
Well I would point out that not just anyone can do that. In fact by the time you can 'afford' a magic weapon of that level you are yourself pretty legendary. How often do you really see level 12 (the first point the +4 weapon is 1/4 your total wealth by level) characters running around in your world? If they are that common well then the equipment they would be using really isn't going to be anything of note either. IF they aren't that common then just the fact that there is someone of that caliber around is a big deal too.
Also the 'wealth by level' guidelines aren't really for the players -- they are for the DM. The DM can look at that chart, figure up how much he as given each player, and how he has given it and have a good guesstimate at where his players are wealth wise as compared to the "average" party.
Now if a DM doesn't want to have a "magic mart" he can simply pay a bit more attention to what he gives out as treasure, and occasionally sunder an old weapon (not to be done too often but hey if that paladin loses his + 1 flaming sword in a fight, but finds a + 2 holy sword afterward in the loot...) or just plan when he wants each bit to find its way into the parties hands.
Also the 'wealth by level' guidelines aren't really for the players -- they are for the DM. The DM can look at that chart, figure up how much he as given each player, and how he has given it and have a good guesstimate at where his players are wealth wise as compared to the "average" party.
Now if a DM doesn't want to have a "magic mart" he can simply pay a bit more attention to what he gives out as treasure, and occasionally sunder an old weapon (not to be done too often but hey if that paladin loses his + 1 flaming sword in a fight, but finds a + 2 holy sword afterward in the loot...) or just plan when he wants each bit to find its way into the parties hands.
I couldn't say it better.
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Little in the way of magic items/non-standard can be outright purchased in my game.
Commissioned works, like others have said above, are the only way anyone can buy something non-standard in my current campaign.
It is better to make the characters loot their opponents, steal items, find them luckily (and probably not even know what they are at first) or a host of other means, rather than just going to the village blacksmith and plunking down a ton of money from teh character's already giant hoarde for +5 armor or something.
That just takes all the fun out of it.
The way I play, if you commission something from the few that can make such items, you will be waiting a while for it and it will not be cheap!
even if you're in the Capital of the Multiverse with a limit of twenty million GP, finding a +7 throwing returning hellsteel guisarme of holy power won't be that easy).Welcome to Sigil General Store!
Hand of Vecna? Sure, it's in stock. Check out the closeout sale on Heads of Vecna, while you're looking.
Hey ! Morte, where are you going !?! Go back on that shelf, QUICKLY !!!
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But they're not taking a loss.
50% of going price is 100% of crafting costs.
yes that IS taking a loss.
You are a craftsman.
You have been commissioned to make a product costing 100,000 gp. You've been paid 50,000 gp up front to cover the cost of materials. You purchase what you need and it comes to exactly 50,000 gp.
You spend some time making the product.
The patron never shows up to pay the last 50,000 gp.
You just lost money for the time you spent. You have not made any profit at all so you are no better off than before the project began, and in fact you lost time you could have made something that would have brought you a profit.
So after a weeks time you have absolutely no money to go to the store and buy some cheese and wine for dinner.
"Ahhh!" you say. "I'll just sell it to the next customer who is interested." And you do so. You now have your 50,000 gp profit! You go out and buy some clothes and food and have 48,000 left over.
Then the patron walks in the next day, worn and haggard having barely survived a dangerous dungeon. He asks for his item that you sold. Having sold it you are obligated to pay him the 50,000 gp he invested.
So now you are 2,000 gp short. Sucks to be you.
The only way to turn it into a profit is to have sold the item to the one guy at full 100% value, 100,000 gp. If you did, then you are ok.
However, what happens if the patron never returns, and no one is interested in a bright pink and turquoise cloak of +2 Diplomacy? You sit there and wish you could eat the thing because you can't go buy dinner. At least you can have a cool diplomacy as you wrap it around your naked body because you can't afford any new clothes...
That is what I call taking a loss...
There is more involved in business than covering the expenses of making the item itself.
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What is a legendary weapon when everyone is expected to be able to buy something like a +4 sword at most large cities.....off the shelves of the local Magic-Wallmart...How often do you really see level 12 (the first point the +4 weapon is 1/4 your total wealth by level) characters running around in your world?
Well... ummm more than you might expect actually.
p50 AP6, female guman fighter 18
p54 AP6, male human transmuter 16
p5 AP12, female human fighter 14
p29 AP12, male human wizard 15
p40 AP12, female human aristocrat 2/rogue 4/red mantis assassin 10
p57 AP12, female devil-bound human aristocrat 2/bard 16
I just found 6 in two modules, four of them in one book. I don't have the last book of Second Darkness and only the first three of Legacy of Fire or I would have more to show.
If the PCs are level 12+ they need level 12+ adversaries. Now unless they are fighting all the level 12+ characters that exist in a city that means there are more.
Sure, we're not talking thousands here. But the PCs are not unique. At level 12, they should be well known in certain circles, but seriously can you name every player in the NBA, or NFL? At level 12 they are in the big leagues, sure, but a few of many others.
I would say that once they hit 17ish, roughly, they are recognizable names. The superstars of the NBA or NFL if you will. :)
What is a legendary weapon when everyone is expected to be able to buy something like a +4 sword at most large cities.....off the shelves of the local Magic-Wallmart...How often do you really see level 12 (the first point the +4 weapon is 1/4 your total wealth by level) characters running around in your world?
Well... ummm more than you might expect actually.
** spoiler omitted **
I just found 6 in two modules, four of them in one book. I don't have the last book of Second Darkness and only the first three of Legacy of Fire or I would have more to show.
If the PCs are level 12+ they need level 12+ adversaries. Now unless they are fighting all the level 12+ characters that exist in a city that means there are more.
Sure, we're not talking thousands here. But the PCs are not unique. At level 12, they should be well known in certain circles, but seriously can you name every player in the NBA, or NFL? At level 12 they are in the big leagues, sure, but a few of many others.
I would say that once they hit 17ish, roughly, they are recognizable names. The superstars of the NBA or NFL if you will. :)
Pretty much, espically in 3ed when completely the first 4 of 6 in any AP will get you to roughly level 12. Sure your huge is your home village, maybe your home city even, but your not a legend.
This aint 1st ed were a level 12 was big time, when you could complete the temple of elemental evil and still be sub level 9, then do the A series and finally hit the giants and then finally might be pushing level 12 as you head into the D series. That was when 12 was legendary, now, not really.
This is no cut on the AP, 3.5 or Pathfinder. But 12 aint what it used to be, and is most certainly isn't legendary. Different system different requirements for being a legend. I love the RotRL AP my group is just finishing Hook mountain and it has been awesome, AP 4 I really see being able to take them to the wall but the entire AP will last about as long as it took me to run them through the temple all those years ago. They should finish the AP at around level 17, the temple they were usually around level 8. Again they are having a blast and so am I the RotRL is very awesome and epic.
stuff
So in all the world covered by those books those few people were found that are 12 or higher? 4 of them in one book means there was only 2 in that other book. So as was covered you got a very limited number of people in a very small and confined space.
It's taking 2/3's of the game to get to 2/3's of your maximum level? Sounds like things are working the way they should.
As is my point if 12th level isn't that amazing neither is 12th level equipment. Ok so you got a Mercedes, but you aren't rush limbaugh and you don't have his Lamborghini. Same with the +4 sword, ok cool, but it isn't a +4 Speeding Wounding Viscious sword either.
Also if a 12th level isn't that amazing neither is a +4 sword (if that is normal for a 12th level character).
In the whole world you got a limited number of these higher level. Even if you travel to another town you are still big (even if they don't immediately know it).
*****
Side note: As was said before the "Craftsman" in the case of the magical item charges half up front and in the contract is a date at which point the item is his to do with as he will. He made the item, the person doesn't show up, he doesn't sell it for 1/2 price to someone else -- he sells it at full price to that other person. He's got the 1/2 that shaped the item, then 100% more since he charged full price. If the original buyer shows up he saids, "Too bad should have been here by the date on the contract."
Sure, we're not talking thousands here. But the PCs are not unique. At level 12, they should be well known in certain circles, but seriously can you name every player in the NBA, or NFL? At level 12 they are in the big leagues, sure, but a few of many others.
I would say that once they hit 17ish, roughly, they are recognizable names. The superstars of the NBA or NFL if you will. :)
Oooh, does this mean kids have adventurer trading cards? Do you get fan clubs who show up at your events with clappers and streak naked through the battlefield painted in your parties colors?
Are there fantasy adventurers leagues where people make up virtual parties and pit them against each other?
I've always been of the mindset that the GM determines how common high level NPCs were.
stuffSo in all the world covered by those books those few people were found that are 12 or higher? 4 of them in one book means there was only 2 in that other book. So as was covered you got a very limited number of people in a very small and confined space.
No idea I didn't post about number of level 12 people.
Also if a 12th level isn't that amazing neither is a +4 sword (if that is normal for a 12th level character).In the whole world you got a limited number of these higher level. Even if you travel to another town you are still big (even if they don't immediately know it).
By this definition you know the chances of finding a +4 sword for sale in even the largest city should be slim to none. Since there are so very few able to afford it there really isn't a call to have premade them.
I would say that once they hit 17ish, roughly, they are recognizable names. The superstars of the NBA or NFL if you will. :)Oooh, does this mean kids have adventurer trading cards? Do you get fan clubs who show up at your events with clappers and streak naked through the battlefield painted in your parties colors?
Are there fantasy adventurers leagues where people make up virtual parties and pit them against each other?
The epidome of popular hero'ing...
Adventurer #1 - "Who in the heck are they?!" *points to following band troupe*Adventurer #2 - "That's my theme music, FOOL!"
Adventurer #1 - "..."
By this definition you know the chances of finding a +4 sword for sale in even the largest city should be slim to none. Since there are so very few able to afford it there really isn't a call to have premade them.
Also if a 12th level isn't that amazing neither is a +4 sword (if that is normal for a 12th level character).In the whole world you got a limited number of these higher level. Even if you travel to another town you are still big (even if they don't immediately know it).
But only because you choose for there to be. There is low to no demand for great big fortesses, towers, and castles too but there are plenty in spades.
If these level ranges aren't that rare then the equipment used shouldn't be so rare. If you only have 5 people in your world around level 12, then the equipment that is standard for them should be that rare too.
My point is you are saying that the equipment is rare, but not providing a reason for it other than you don't want that many +4 swords.
And it doesn't really have to be common. The fighter isn't looking to buy a baker's dozen of +4 swords -- he just wants the one. Now there may only be one in the entire town, but that is fine so long as he can buy it. It's probably old, also ok since he'll still pay full market value for it (as opposed to the 1/2 price he would possibly get for it if he was to sell it) since it's the only one available and it's what he is looking for.
By this definition you know the chances of finding a +4 sword for sale in even the largest city should be slim to none. Since there are so very few able to afford it there really isn't a call to have premade them.
Also if a 12th level isn't that amazing neither is a +4 sword (if that is normal for a 12th level character).In the whole world you got a limited number of these higher level. Even if you travel to another town you are still big (even if they don't immediately know it).
But only because you choose for there to be. There is low to no demand for great big fortesses, towers, and castles too but there are plenty in spades.
If these level ranges aren't that rare then the equipment used shouldn't be so rare. If you only have 5 people in your world around level 12, then the equipment that is standard for them should be that rare too.
My point is you are saying that the equipment is rare, but not providing a reason for it other than you don't want that many +4 swords.
And it doesn't really have to be common. The fighter isn't looking to buy a baker's dozen of +4 swords -- he just wants the one. Now there may only be one in the entire town, but that is fine so long as he can buy it. It's probably old, also ok since he'll still pay full market value for it (as opposed to the 1/2 price he would possibly get for it if he was to sell it) since it's the only one available and it's what he is looking for.
If you want a big fortress you pay to have it built spend months or even years or prehaps decades while that happens depending on what is needed to make it happen. You don't walk into a city and somehow find the one and only there is to be had.
If you want a +4 sword and can't make it yourself even if there is one in the city how do you even know how to get at it? Your a fighter if you go to the shop and ask let look at what happens:
He could have the one and only and your dang lucky he does...but he also knows its the one and only so well book price, I think not. Not unless you can haggle the snot out of him and well your a fighter maybe you can scare him, but if he has something as valuable as a +4 sword he likely has the guards to feel confident you can't just kill him and take it. So if it's the one and only and if he is going to sell it to you, you should know you will be paying a good deal more then it's worth due to its rarity, unless you convince the party leader to join you with his high diplomacy or bluff to help get that price down a bit.
He could know where you can buy it but wants to get you to buy his +2 flaming sword so he simply doesn't let on about it. Again some RP and help maybe you find it.
He could decide he rips you off and sells you a less valuable sword because well with the money your paying he can retire and leave the area. Maybe you have sense motive or appraise, but chances are great you don't.
He could think he knows where you can buy one but is wrong and sends you on a wild goose chase not to be mean but just because he isn't right.
Basically you should not expect to be able to walk into any town and buy mid to high end gear easily. If you can well that would just be silly. You can expect to find some things, but maybe not what you want and honestly that is how it should be. Not well the city can support XP gold piece value items so it has all items of that value and lower at Bob's Magic gear Wallmart.