Anyone have ideas on where the series is going? This thread will be loaded with spoilers if you have not started the Song of Fire and Ice.
My thoughts: Tyrion might not win the race to find Dany but he will gain her as a friend. He might be able to help her take over the 7 Kingdoms.
Jon Snow will broker a deal with the Wildings and Stannis. He will discover the real threat is the Others. He will also rally his fathers bannermen.
Bran will learn his magic and the children of the forest will make an appearance. Coldhands is his uncle transformed.
What do you think?
This is tricky as I've read the four spoiler chapters from ADWD and heard several more read out at cons, so there's a little bit of stuff I KNOW that is going to happen that others here might not be in on. I'll try and spoiler that.
My overall guess is that Dany's quest to become a better ruler of Meereen will succeed, but in doing so the city will be lost. She needs to get back to Westeros and her determination to do good in Meereen will likely backfire. The end of ASoS already has shades of post-2003 Baghdad and that will likely continue to develop. She is also a sitting duck for her many and considerable enemies, and the enemies of her family.
The AFFC appendix also lists two Dothraki khals founded by Khal Drogo's bloodriders in some detail, so I'm guessing they are going to get involved, plus the Warlocks of Qarth and the Yunkai'i are likely not too happy with her being around either. I suspect we could see a large, multi-armed force congregating on Meereen for one hell of a showdown. I suspect Dany escapes from the battle, but I believe there could also be a twist. Maybe Victarion turning up and taking her back to Westeros as her prisoner, with Dany's other followers pursuing? That would be a different take to the huge invasion we suspected was coming instead.
On the diplomatic side of things, we can guess that Dany will accept Quentyn's offer of an alliance with Dorne, but won't be in a hurry to marry him. If Marwyn turns up early enough, he could make a powerful ally and advisor.
In conclusion, Dany will lose Meereen but in doing so will learn important lessons for ruling which will come in handy when she returns to Westeros. I suspect, one way or another, she will be on her way back to Westeros at the end of ADWD. With only two more books to go after that, it doesn't leave much time for her to invade, claim the throne and then fight the Others, if that is the sequence of events.
The storyline in the North is already proceeding in an interesting manner.
This is a fairly major spoilery bit so only read it if you want to know what happens in a couple of early ADWD chapters:
Elsewhere, we also know from spoiler chapters that Jon Snow consolidates his control of the Night's Watch by executing Janos Slynt (WOOT!), scaring the cack out of the other malcontents (led by Alliser Thorne).
I suspect, from the AFFC cast list, that Jon is going to lead a punitive expedition to Craster's Keep to execute the murderers of the Old Bear. This will add to his growing badass image and they can probably pick up news of what is going on with the Others, Tormund and the giants at this time.
I have no idea on what happens with Bran. His story is shrouded in mystery. I suspect we might get some minor answers to ongoing questions about Coldhands and the children of the forest, but not much beyond that.
There is a chance that ADWD ends with the Others attacking and toppling the Wall. It doesn't make much sense dramatically to have the Others come south, see the Wall, realise they CANNOT PASS! [/McKellen] and turn around to go home. They have to threaten Westeros more overtly, so the Wall I think has to come down at some point. It also adds to the general chaos if the Others' invasion from the north and Dany's invasion from the east happens simultaneously, rather than Dany simply unifying the kingdom in Book 6 and then fighting a neat battle against the Others in Book 7.
The absolutely central issue in the books: What will happen to Lollys? =)
The absolutely central issue in the books: What will happen to Lollys? =)
Hey, great question! After all, she DID just have a kid...
I have no idea where the series is going, but since I own both versions of the RPG, I'm not worried so much. I have enough people chomping at the bit to play that it would be interesting to see what the differences are between my campaign and the books after a while.
Werthed has some great teasers!
In the end I rather wonder if Jon and Dany will come together as the leaders of a new era.
My pet idea: Jon isn't Ned's bastard, he's Lyanna's, by whichever Targaeryn prince had locked her up. Thus, he & Dany can be the next brother-sister dragon team.
Actually that would make Dany Jon's aunt.
I want to see Sansa take out that creepy Littlefinger and join back up with the Hound.
Steve
In the end I rather wonder if Jon and Dany will come together as the leaders of a new era.
I'm going to lean towards no. That would be the expected, anticipated ending, and the series hasn't been too keen on adhering to the traditional, cheesy ending so far.
Of course the books do state that Jon looks like Ned (Jon and Arya seem to resemble their father while the rest of the children look like their mother). My thought is that Bran will return to rule the North. Bran is Ned's heir and will be the key figure in the reconquest of the Starks. Jon will be his sword.
Of course what about Rikkon? His Dire Wolf is largest and most wild! You get the feeling that the wolves match the owner. If Rikkon is with the Umbars he may grow up to be a destroyer like the Mountain.
Speaking of the "Mountain that rides". I don't think he's dead. Transformed into something else in the dark pits by the twisted Maester. He will be an even nastier foe when he returns.
Will the Maid of Tarth be spared?
Will the Cersi die for her crimes and Jamie in her defense?
Can the Onion Knight keep the children of the various noble lines from the fires of the Red God?
Will Sam become a Maester under the hand of the Mage?
And where are the Imp and the Spider? Headed to find Dany I imagine. Those two together are an unbeatable team of intelligence, knowledge, and stealth.
Of course the books do state that Jon looks like Ned (Jon and Arya seem to resemble their father while the rest of the children look like their mother). My thought is that Bran will return to rule the North. Bran is Ned's heir and will be the key figure in the reconquest of the Starks. Jon will be his sword.
Jon looks like 'a Stark' and thus bears a close resemblence to Ned. I think it's also said he looks a bit like his uncle Benjen, and maybe his 'aunt' Lyanna as well? ;-)
Will the Maid of Tarth be spared?
Presumably, otherwise her story in AFFC will have been totally pointless.
Will the Cersi die for her crimes and Jamie in her defense?
I don't think Jaime is riding to her defence. He burned the letter in Riverrun.
Can the Onion Knight keep the children of the various noble lines from the fires of the Red God?
I don't think that's Davos' plan or role in events. That side of things is likely more a worry for Jon and the Night's Watch now.
Will Sam become a Maester under the hand of the Mage?
No. Marwyn took off for Meereen on his own, leaving Sam at the Citadel with FakePate and FakeAlleras (interesting to find out WTF is really going on with those two), so he won't be teaching Sam anything. I also think it's likely that Sam would have become a Maester in the original plan for the series (with a five-year gap between ASoS and ADWD), but there's not enough time now. He's just going to have to study up on the Others and then get the hell out of there and back to the Wall.
And where are the Imp and the Spider? Headed to find Dany I imagine. Those two together are an unbeatable team of intelligence, knowledge, and stealth.
Jon looks like 'a Stark' and thus bears a close resemblence to Ned. I think it's also said he looks a bit like his uncle Benjen, and maybe his 'aunt' Lyanna as well? ;-)
The books clearly state that the only Stark child that Jon resembles is Arya and that Arya very much looks like her Aunt Lyanna at that age.
If you haven't figured it out I support the theory that Jon is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son and not Ned's. The man is far too honor bound to have a bastard.
If you haven't figured it out I support the theory that Jon is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son and not Ned's. The man is far too honor bound to have a bastard.I agree on this one. Theres a few areas that I think support this, I don't have my copy with me but if I recall correctly . . .
We know that Ned promised something big to Lyanna; he keeps referring to this, especially when he dreams of the fight at the Tower of Joy.
One of Ned's children mentions Lyanna dying in child-birth while talking to someone down in the family crypts.
Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar, and she was kept at the the Tower of Joy, I believe this is why you have 3 prominent members of the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy and not defending Rhaegar when he meets Robert Baratheon. The White Bull and the other two knights were guarding the future heir to the throne, who would be Jon Snow.
This leads me to believe that Jon's ties to the throne may be revealed, and he may be in-line for a claim.
Speaking of the "Mountain that rides". I don't think he's dead. Transformed into something else in the dark pits by the twisted Maester. He will be an even nastier foe when he returns.
I don't think he is truly gone either. He may be dead, but I think he has been made into something at the least.
I also do not believe that Sandor Clegane is dead either. When someone (The Maiden maybe) visits a monastary in the region, they note a huge black warhorse in the stables, and a particular monk who laboring, one who looks more like a warrior than a monk. I think the priest may have nursed Sandor back to health, and we'll see him come back as a more heroic character.
Dang, I wish I had my books to reference. I loaned most of them out, and there are so many things I'm looking forward to.
I want to see if Bron has any more cool scenes.
I agree that Tyrion is likely to assist in training the dragons.
For some reason, I had it in my mind that the Greyjoy, the one with the magical horn, would be the catalyst that would motivate Dani to move on to Westeros.
I also don't believe that Stannis is the new Champion of Light. There was a line that the old maester had when asking Jon if Stannis's sword burned with a certain light (or something like that), and it did not. I'm left wondering if Jon may be the revealed as the new champion as well. However, as others have said GRRM has a talent for making readers believe something will happen, and then pulling out the rug.
It's also worth remembering that in ASoIaF prophecies are fallible. The Dothraki crones said that Khal Drogo and Dany's son would be the Stallion That Mounts the World, Genghis Khan x10,000. They forgot to mention the caveat, "If some crazy witch doesn't kill him in the womb first,".
Whether the PWWP is Jon or if Aemon was right and it is Dany remains to be seen. I'm rather hoping that the prophecy turns out to be a load of dingoes' kidneys and they just have to deal with the situation the best way they can. Prophecies are kind of done to death now.
Whether the PWWP is Jon or if Aemon was right and it is Dany remains to be seen. I'm rather hoping that the prophecy turns out to be a load of dingoes' kidneys and they just have to deal with the situation the best way they can. Prophecies are kind of done to death now.
Forgive my ignorance, but I can't recall what PWWP stands for.
But I think I agree that any prophecies will most likely be bunk. In a way, if Jon does become the champion, I have the feeling he is more likely to meet a sad end.
Forgive my ignorance, but I can't recall what PWWP stands for.
But I think I agree that any prophecies will most likely be bunk. In a way, if Jon does become the champion, I have the feeling he is more likely to meet a sad end.
The Prince Who Was Promised ;-)
I hope we see something good for Sam. He reminds me of another Sam who was also a chubby common man.
Who was it that mentioned to Arya that he was Jon's milk brother?
I also agree that the Hound is not dead and will return. Perhaps to destroy the monster that is his brother?
|
I was just reading over some summaries of the books to refresh myself, and I saw that Petyr Baelish requested some tapestries from King's Landing during the last book. Wikipedia states that Cersei Lannister didn't seem to care what they depicted, but that they were likely images of the Targaryen kings that had been taken down after Robert's Rebellion. Does anyone know what the significance of this would be?
Who was it that mentioned to Arya that he was Jon's milk brother?
That would be Edric Dayne, heir to the castle of Starfall in Dorne.
I don't think Tyrion will ally with Daenerys, he'll be in Braavos.
If Tyrion was in Braavos, we'd have seen or heard about him during AFFC ;-)
Reasonably big spoiler for the first two Tyrion chapters in ADWD:
I was just reading over some summaries of the books to refresh myself, and I saw that Petyr Baelish requested some tapestries from King's Landing during the last book. Wikipedia states that Cersei Lannister didn't seem to care what they depicted, but that they were likely images of the Targaryen kings that had been taken down after Robert's Rebellion. Does anyone know what the significance of this would be?
There is a theory that Littlefinger knows about Dany and is hedging his bets against her return.
On a related note, excellent new map of Westeros here. It's the one that's the second-to-the-far-right (no direct linking allowed).
Do you think all the Freys will die horribly?
I'm anticipating that we'll see some sort of vengence on the Freys.
Wouldn't Daenerys kill Tyrion, I don't see a way he could gain her confidence.
Tyrion has a knack for talking his way out of situations. I would expect he would realize the dangers in meeting with Dany, but would also make sure he clearly states the value of an alliance.
I think Tyrion is a pretty decent person thrown into horrible situations. I also think he may be one of GRRM's favorite characters to write. Tyrion has a strong moral compass and will do what is best for the whole in most situations (stopping Joff from having Sansa beaten is an example). Dany seems to have a sense of who will help her and what motivates each person in her 'court'. I think she can use Tyrion to her advantage.
I think of Tyrion much like the RPG Gamer Geek beaten up and threatened by Jock Bullies in school. He has been assigned nasty characteristics that he never earned (Oh you know those Gamers, Perverts, Satan Cultists, never kissed a girl, etc.). Tyrion is the example of a physical challenge overcome with mental strength.
Of course one more person is rumored to betray Dany...
I wonder if Cersi can get herself out of the mess she's made.
Anyone have any clues as to when we might see Dances with Dragons? I believe GRRM was still writing as of June 2009.
And Werthead, BIG THANKS! The maps and the teasers are wonderful! Please share anything and everything you want. I enjoy reading your posts!
Wouldn't Daenerys kill Tyrion, I don't see a way he could gain her confidence.
However, Tyrion is going to arrive with reinforcements (Griff and his mercenaries), he's going to have reccomendation from Ilyrio (which will hold weight as Ilyrio gave Daenerys her dragon eggs) and he's going to have skills Dany needs. His experience organising the defence of King's Landing will no doubt help with the defence of Meereen and he's also read books on rearing dragons. The other spoiler chapters show that Dany is having real problems controlling her dragons as they get older, and they have started eating people which she can't stop.
Excellent map btw, always thought Westeros has a weird, unnatural shape, now it's better.
Yeah, it's very obvious from the way all the peninsulars on the east coast extend the same distance GRRM was thinking more of running out of paper than geographic logic ;) That map makes it look a bit more natural.
I plan to re-read the series again. One thing I want to watch closer is Bran focused chapters. The series starts with Bran so I think he has a major role to play. I imagine that he will be the next King of the North.
I plan to re-read the series again. One thing I want to watch closer is Bran focused chapters. The series starts with Bran so I think he has a major role to play. I imagine that he will be the next King of the North.
Quite possibly, although lots of fans argue over that point. Bran's role I think is going to be more magical or spiritual than based in temporal power, or to put it another way if Jon is going to become Westeros' equivalent to King Arthur (which I'm not 100% convinced by, but it's a popular idea) than Bran is going to be the nearest thing to Merlin.
I plan to re-read the series again. One thing I want to watch closer is Bran focused chapters. The series starts with Bran so I think he has a major role to play. I imagine that he will be the next King of the North.Quite possibly, although lots of fans argue over that point. Bran's role I think is going to be more magical or spiritual than based in temporal power, or to put it another way if Jon is going to become Westeros' equivalent to King Arthur (which I'm not 100% convinced by, but it's a popular idea) than Bran is going to be the nearest thing to Merlin.
An interesting point, one that I did not consider. I could probably stand one or the other(with a strong leaning towards Bran/Merlin), but not both unless it is done in a rather grim, gritty way- which, considering Jon's actions of late, may already be happening.
Heard rumors that the HBO TV series has finished filming. Wonder if GRRM will return back to his writing soon?
Heard rumors that the HBO TV series has finished filming. Wonder if GRRM will return back to his writing soon?
Yes, they finished yesterday (only the pilot, though, not the whole series). I think GRRM is on his way back to Santa Fe today or tomorrow. I imagine we'll get an update on the writing situation before the end of the year.
Whilst he was in London he spoke to his British publisher and told them he's almost done and they'll have the manuscript soon. How 'almost' is 'almost' and how 'soon' is 'soon' remains to be seen.
I will devour the book much too quickly upon its publication and then have to wait again!
How long do you think it'll take you to read it? Me, I KNOW I will be done in less than week. I don't consider a book "read" unless I've gone through it twice, and I always take a break before going back to read it again.
Since I work 2 jobs I will savor the book for about 3 weeks. I will want to read more and most likely read a few times late into the evening when I should get to sleep.