Sorry if this has been done already, I couldn't find an existing thread.
Who came up with the art for the elf in Races section of the Beta? Was there a reason for the huge ears?
linkies
Much thank yous for both links!
Was there a reason for the huge ears?
Because... they are elves?
;-P
I much prefer the big ears. The problem is they can't please everyone.
It was the handlebar style of sticking almost straight out to the side in the Beta Races section. We were pointing out to a group member how elves look and that was what we had handy. We weren't thrilled with handlebar style. Big, we are ok with. Handlebars, not so much.
I think they should, on April 1, have some pictures of elves with ears as long as their legs. (and those wouldn't be short-legged elves). Put them on the webpage, write a little something about it. Just to give some people a heart attack.
I'll always like 'em big (wow, did I just type that. Huh, too bad my delete key's broke). PCs who don't want them can just cut them off. Gross, but it works. 0_o
I'll always like 'em big (wow, did I just type that. Huh, too bad my delete key's broke). PCs who don't want them can just cut them off. Gross, but it works. 0_o
Put me down for no body image driven self-mutilation in my fantasy RPG, please.
The Beta racial art is more handle-barey than the really final Ears of Golarion, look to Meri or the elf from the PFRPG race layout for a more accurate example.
Long, but not handle-bar.
I'll always like 'em big (wow, did I just type that. Huh, too bad my delete key's broke).
No delete key? Just hit Ctrl-Shift-Home, then Menu key (next to the right windows key.. wait.. you guys use Macs don't you?) - then D or T for delete or cut...
.. Face-E-shush? what's that?
I'll always like 'em big (wow, did I just type that. Huh, too bad my delete key's broke). PCs who don't want them can just cut them off. Gross, but it works. 0_o
You might want to put a disclaimer on this. I think there's young, impressionable folk around. They might try that with their own noses or.... whatever they might think is too big. You never know. It might be a toe.
All this is reminding me of a half-elf NPC from from Privateer Press' Witchfire Trilogy who hacked off her ear tips in a pathetic attempt to look 'normal'.
Not a particularly pleasant thing to think about.
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I much prefer the big ears. The problem is they can't please everyone.It was the handlebar style of sticking almost straight out to the side in the Beta Races section. We were pointing out to a group member how elves look and that was what we had handy. We weren't thrilled with handlebar style. Big, we are ok with. Handlebars, not so much.
I didn't mind the handle-bar look but I'm one of those kids that worshipped Record of Lodoss Wars and love their elf design with the ears. Looked just like that.
Still, I'll try not to cry too much over their departure.
From an old discussion, the huge ears and lack of eye whites were a way to artistically convey the bonuses that elves get to their hearing and vision. I really like the idea, if for no other reason than to make the elves seem more alien and less like just hot asian folks. It's really a bit of a shame that it's been scaled back so much--but then can I really fault Paizo for listening to their customers so much?
Nah. It's that they spend so much time listening to us and openly discussing stuff that makes them so freakin' cool.
EDIT--I was just over reading the archived elf ear discussion where James Jacobs was ranting about how much he disliked the lineup art, and that they went back to formula with a whole new set for the new core book. Broke my heart a little. Not because of the elf art so much as that awesome half-orc. Reminds me of Rico from Xenogears. I love the idea of a big huge cool looking half-orc with a mane of orange hair. Not ugly, not stupid, just huge scary and awesome--the kind of half orc that could appear on a cover and the sales of that product would go UP. Unfortunately it seems like the canon half-orc is more of a Krusk. Shame that.
(wow, did I just type that. Huh, too bad my delete key's broke).Ya know, you can just highlight the text...
He meant his mental delete key...
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EDIT--I was just over reading the archived elf ear discussion where James Jacobs was ranting about how much he disliked the lineup art, and that they went back to formula with a whole new set for the new core book. Broke my heart a little. Not because of the elf art so much as that awesome half-orc. Reminds me of Rico from Xenogears. I love the idea of a big huge cool looking half-orc with a mane of orange hair. Not ugly, not stupid, just huge scary and awesome--the kind of half orc that could appear on a cover and the sales of that product would go UP. Unfortunately it seems like the canon half-orc is more of a Krusk. Shame that.
I feel you on this one. The elf thing's a little hit but whatever. The HALF orc though ... there is a BIG difference there. I really thought the beta half orc was probably THE look that should have been kept out of all of them.
... ah well.
As a fan of Lodoss as well, I'm okay with the "Handle Bar" ears. Gives you something to hold on to when you're... uh... anyway...
In my art and my CS, that's the way elven ears go. It may get in the way of wearing hoods or the occasional helmet, but who does that in a fantasy RPG anyway?
And put me down for sad about the new race line-up, too. It just lacks the character of the old one, even though I usually like Steve Prescott's art.
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As a fan of Lodoss as well, I'm okay with the "Handle Bar" ears. Gives you something to hold on to when you're... uh... anyway...
In my art and my CS, that's the way elven ears go. It may get in the way of wearing hoods or the occasional helmet, but who does that in a fantasy RPG anyway?
And put me down for sad about the new race line-up, too. It just lacks the character of the old one, even though I usually like Steve Prescott's art.
Hurray!! More Lodoss War fans :D
And yea, I agree about the lineup thing and the fact I've loved Prescott's work. Just ... the lineups did NOT work for me.
Lodoss War is awesome. Ultimately though, I would say that if long elf ears aren't your thing, house rule it. It's a lot easier to do than a lot of other things that people house rule. I personally like long elf ears, there is more to nibble on.
Right now, I am running a VTT version of Runelords, using MapTools and Ventrilo. We had our second session of Hook Mountain Massacre last night.
Of of my player is pretty good with photoshop, and he has been making photo-realistic images of all the players- so I can use them for their tokens.
Last night he sent me his version of Shalelu Andosana.
I didn't have the heart to tell him he got the eyes wrong, he had forgotten there are no 'whites'...
It was a pretty cute attempt at a female elf though. Don't worry, it is work safe
Creative Director
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It's worth repeating that we replaced the race lineup art in the Beta with new art in the final not because I hated the race lineup in the Beta. I actually liked that art... it was a VERY VOCAL majority of the posters on these boards who hated it. That's part of the reason we replaced it… we were listening to customer feedback. Another reason was that, although I liked the art, the style didn't match the rest of the art in the book and we needed to replace it so that we could get art to match the book's style. You wouldn't print a random chapter of a book in a different font than the rest for no reason, after all; you shouldn't switch art styles for the same reason.
The Beta race lineup was in fact ordered for Pathfinder #3, a few years ago, and before we had the "style" issues 100% worked out. It was also ordered at a time when we were ordering a LOT of art, since we were still working on Dragon and Dungeon at the time. And on top of that, it was actually the SECOND attempt we made to order a race lineup; the first one we got was really off-model and weird looking (and no, this art won't be shown to the public—it never progressed beyond sketch stage and I doubt we still have the images even. The image itself has probably been the MOST difficult of the images we've been trying to get to perfect, and I think that Steve Prescott's version that appears in the final is there.
As for elf ears and eyes... I guess we'll be fielding feedback about that for the rest of time. Before anyone gets riled up about an elf picture, though, it's probably best to look at images that aren't 2 years old and to focus on those, say, from Elves of Golarion, or those that appear in more recent Paizo publications. In fact, the best elf reference we have at this point is probably still Wayne's depiction of our iconic rogue Merisiel (which goes against my advice to not look at 2-year-old art, but whatever!). Large eyes with no whites showing, and pointed ears that angle up along the side of the head to a length of 6 to 9 inches, so the points rise just above the top of the head and, when viewed from the side, point to about 1:00 or 2:00 if the ear was an hour hand on a clock. Since elf art have a huge amount of inertia (between classic D&D representations, animae, and World of Warcraft), getting Golarion's elves to look like Golarion elves has been one of the tougher stunts we've been doing over the last few years. We're pretty much there now, though, and as a result, we're not going to be switching the way they look any time soon. We've put way too much effort and blood and tears and toil into getting them to look the way we want them today to change.
We've put way too much effort and blood and tears and toil into getting them to look the way we want them today to change.
James, also bear in mind there are a lot of people who are just fine with the new art. Its easier for those who don't like the art to post (their entitled) opinion.. compared to the folks that are cool with it.
That is, often you hear more criticism than you hear praise.. unless the work is absolutely astounding. That's just human nature. And there are some people who just don't want to sugar coat everything, because the praise loses its value that way.
I know you're speaking to the whole community.. but if it brightens your day up, I like the new race artwork just fine. It's great, and I'm excited to get my pre-ordered copy (coming in August).
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It was a pretty cute attempt at a female elf though. Don't worry, it is work safe
but i think shalelu looks stronger than that...
that littl deary elf looks like someone who just finished seeing how the thunters killed bambi's mother... about 3 times :Pohh eys i am also fan of Record of Loddoss War, that was the anime that made many of my players gamers
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old line up human is cute... new line up human is not :S
that is my complain, and the old gnome looked so cool that i almost played one
As for elf ears and eyes... I guess we'll be fielding feedback about that for the rest of time. Before anyone gets riled up about an elf picture, though, it's probably best to look at images that aren't 2 years old and to focus on those, say, from Elves of Golarion, or those that appear in more recent Paizo publications. In fact, the best elf reference we have at this point is probably still Wayne's depiction of our iconic rogue Merisiel (which goes against my advice to not look at 2-year-old art, but whatever!). Large eyes with no whites showing, and pointed ears that angle up along the side of the head to a length of 6 to 9 inches, so the points rise just above the top of the head and, when viewed from the side, point to about 1:00 or 2:00 if the ear was an hour hand on a clock. Since elf art have a huge amount of inertia (between classic D&D representations, animae, and World of Warcraft), getting Golarion's elves to look like Golarion elves has been one of the tougher stunts we've been doing over the last few years. We're pretty much there now, though, and as a result, we're not going to be switching the way they look any time soon. We've put way too much effort and blood and tears and toil into getting them to look the way we want them today to change.
good good... i like elves of golarion alien visage, its quite unique
It was a pretty cute attempt at a female elf though. Don't worry, it is work safebut i think shalelu looks stronger than that...
that littl deary elf looks like someone who just finished seeing how the thunters killed bambi's mother... about 3 times :P
I actually agree. But when players do 'extra credit' projects to enhance the campaign, one must smile and be gracious.
ANd heck, its better than I could do myself.
As for elf ears and eyes... I guess we'll be fielding feedback about that for the rest of time. Before anyone gets riled up about an elf picture, though, it's probably best to look at images that aren't 2 years old and to focus on those, say, from Elves of Golarion, or those that appear in more recent Paizo publications.
There'll always be some kind of feedback. My group was just curious how that came about and what it's deal was. And even if you'd stuck with that style of elven ears, we'd be OK with it. In fact, we'd probably not even think about it very much.
It only came up because we were being descriptive and needed some art to use as a basis.
In the end, it's good know that art isn't the final art.
It's worth repeating that we replaced the race lineup art in the Beta with new art in the final not because I hated the race lineup in the Beta.
Just a fact, but you will hear far more from those unhappy about something then from those happy about it. Those unhappy espically if they think their dislike will prompt change will be as vocal as can be. Those who like it will say a little and then go because they got what they wanted.
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Creative Director
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It's worth repeating that we replaced the race lineup art in the Beta with new art in the final not because I hated the race lineup in the Beta.Just a fact, but you will hear far more from those unhappy about something then from those happy about it. Those unhappy espically if they think their dislike will prompt change will be as vocal as can be. Those who like it will say a little and then go because they got what they wanted.
Oh, I'm well aware of the fact that people tend to be quicker to comment when they're annoyed or disappointed or angry. Doesn't change the fact that I find this quirk of human behavior to be curious and amusing and frustrating, of course! :)
Heh, heh. How's the view from up there, Mr. Jacobs? ;D
Oh, I'm well aware of the fact that people tend to be quicker to comment when they're annoyed or disappointed or angry. Doesn't change the fact that I find this quirk of human behavior to be curious and amusing and frustrating, of course! :)It's worth repeating that we replaced the race lineup art in the Beta with new art in the final not because I hated the race lineup in the Beta.Just a fact, but you will hear far more from those unhappy about something then from those happy about it. Those unhappy espically if they think their dislike will prompt change will be as vocal as can be. Those who like it will say a little and then go because they got what they wanted.
Indeed. It's why it is very hard to base changes on public opinion. You figured well with all these complaints about the original art a change should make most people happy, but of course those who really didn't post much about how they liked it now will post about how they don't like what you changed it to, while those who were vocal about how they disliked the original will now be silent about how they do like the current. ((Good reason why politicians who are guided by public opinion end up getting nothing much done.))
Ah well. I like both actually. Not that it matters.