Pathfinder Beta gives the familiar the Wizard's skill ranks (unless it's own are higher in some cases). The stipulation is that the familiar uses it's own ability modifiers.
Clear enough. Here's my question.
In the case of class skills, is that the total skill ranks, or just the ranks purchased with skill points?
For example: a 7th level wizard has put 7 ranks in spellcraft, and gets 3 more because it is a class skill. for a total of 10 ranks.
At that level, a familiar has an Int of 9. So does the familiar have Knowledge Arcana 9.. or 6?
My intital thought was 9, but I welcome your collective perspective.
Good question, and one I'm pretty interested to figure out, because when I sat down to figure out what familiars should be doing in the game, one of the things that occurred to me is that folklore usually paints familiars as advisers, meaning that making another skill check to help consult on Knowledge checks, for example, would play right into that.
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The Pathfinder system is the same as it was in 3rd edition. Your familiar has ranks in all the skills you have ranks in equal to the number of ranks you have.
So if you have 5 ranks in Knowledge Arcana, so does your familiar. You just have to make sure to use the familiars ability score modifier for the skills it has.
The skill being a class skill has no effect on the familiar as that simply gives you a +3 while using that skill, it does not give you 3 free ranks in it. Your familiar doesn't have a class, so it'd only get whatever a magical beast would get for class skills, if they even have such a thing which I doubt.
Your familiar has ranks in all the skills you have ranks in equal to the number of ranks you have.
So if you have 5 ranks in Knowledge Arcana, so does your familiar. You just have to make sure to use the familiars ability score modifier for the skills it has.
I have to point out that I actually said that. I did misinterpret the (+3) bonus as being actual skill ranks however.
The skill being a class skill has no effect on the familiar as that simply gives you a +3 while using that skill, it does not give you 3 free ranks in it. Your familiar doesn't have a class, so it'd only get whatever a magical beast would get for class skills, if they even have such a thing which I doubt.
Okay.. that does make sense. I glossed over the skill section, but it does define the (+3) as a bonus to class skills, and not skill ranks themselves.
Thank you!
For backwards compatability and to avoid an unnecessary nerf, I would make it so the familiars get the same class skills that you do if they are mental (i.e. based on INT, WIS, or CHA), plus any a magical beast would have. In the transition to Pathfinder your familiar shouldn't be getting kicked around just because we moved to Pathfinder if it isn't explicitly stated as an intention.
So in 3.x you got 4 ranks at first and that carried over to your familiar because they were ranks. In Pathfinder instead of getting 4 ranks in a skill you place one and if it's a class skill you get +3 to it. So if you don't transfer the class skills a familiar built on 3.5 rules and then converted to Pathfinder would be loosing the equivalent of 3 ranks per skill.
I would rather the familiar gets the casters trained skills, because the adviser role I mentioned gets nerfed pretty badly if the familiar looses not only the ability score bonus that it would have compared to his master, but also the +3 for the trained skill.
I would rather the familiar gets the casters trained skills, because the adviser role I mentioned gets nerfed pretty badly if the familiar looses not only the ability score bonus that it would have compared to his master, but also the +3 for the trained skill.
I'm thinking the same thing myself.
Though in fairness, I see what Morgen saying and I agree that is what it says. However, like you, I may choose to ignore that now.
A familiar with a few skill ranks won't break the game in any case. :)
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Not granting the familiar a +3 for the character's class skills seems to correlate with the way the Beta rules were written, but I don't know if the intent was to make familiars less skilled than they were in 3.5.
Since 3.5 casters gained an extra 3 ranks in many skills at 1st level, making those skills class skills for the familiar in Pathfinder would produce about the same skill levels for familiars as under 3.5 (give or take...I understand that Pathfinder encourages you a drop a rank in most of your class skills for the bonus).
If the issue isn't clarified in the final rules, hopefully Paizo will errata this, as I think the +3 makes good sense. It should be noted that the skills section for familiars in Pathfinder Beta is almost exactly copied out of the 3.5 Player's Handbook. The only difference is that Pathfinder dropped "(such as Craft)" from "some skills...may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use".
Not granting the familiar a +3 for the character's class skills seems to correlate with the way the Beta rules were written, but I don't know if the intent was to make familiars less skilled than they were in 3.5.
Since 3.5 casters gained an extra 3 ranks in many skills at 1st level, making those skills class skills for the familiar in Pathfinder would produce about the same skill levels for familiars as under 3.5 (give or take...I understand that Pathfinder encourages you a drop a rank in most of your class skills for the bonus).
If the issue isn't clarified in the final rules, hopefully Paizo will errata this, as I think the +3 makes good sense. It should be noted that the skills section for familiars in Pathfinder Beta is almost exactly copied out of the 3.5 Player's Handbook. The only difference is that Pathfinder dropped "(such as Craft)" from "some skills...may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use".
This is what an improved familiar is for. As long as the creature has the dexterity to grasp a scroll and read it, or hold a wand and brandish it (how many pictures of monsters out there do you see wielding a wand from a tentacle from its FACE, after all), he can use it. Even craft skills, I don't think are completely out of the realm of reason. How many times has your real life pet left toys out for you to trip on (or yesterday's dinner for you to slip on)? That's called an unskilled craft (traps) check. Sure, it requires a low perception check, but you automatically suffer minuses for being distracted, running, etc.
As far as "ranks" go I thought that in PF the +3 you get was a bonus to class skills, not more ranks. Ranks now are maxed at your level. This might be a nerf to pets, I don't know.
Where can I find it written that pets can cast spells from scrolls or wands? :O My first character had a trained monkey familiar with thief skills (use magic device+wand of fireball=hurt) and I'd LOVE to be able to accurately recreate that!
As far as "ranks" go I thought that in PF the +3 you get was a bonus to class skills, not more ranks. Ranks now are maxed at your level. This might be a nerf to pets, I don't know.
You're right! :D
But that came out in discussion early on and was accepted as a fact. You've got to read the whole thread, friend.
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't mean to sound smug.
It does look like a nerf to pets, but we're in kind of limbo till the final rules come out, and even then I might ignore them in that respect.
As far as "ranks" go I thought that in PF the +3 you get was a bonus to class skills, not more ranks. Ranks now are maxed at your level. This might be a nerf to pets, I don't know.
Where can I find it written that pets can cast spells from scrolls or wands? :O My first character had a trained monkey familiar with thief skills (use magic device+wand of fireball=hurt) and I'd LOVE to be able to accurately recreate that!
The description of Use Magic Device itself says you can wave a wand around erratically in an attempt to randomly set it off on a roll of 20. But UMD is a trained only skill, so you only have to give it a rank in UMD, but you typically cannot, unless your familiar copies your UMD ranks.
And then, as long as it has a means of completing the spell, whether it be a swish of the wand, or the creature can vocalize the command word, if applicable.