So, I've been playing this Psion in a Pathfinder game. I'm lovin' it pretty well, but I'm curious if I could do anything better. Also, I'm wondering if anyone has good rules on a Psion conversion.
Admittedly, I didn't make this character with OP in mind, so I doubt I hit anything on the head in that department. Still, I'm curious.
Here's a link to my character:
http://www.neceros.com/nworks/rpg-characters/able-fierce-psion/
Able is CN, leaning towards evil. He's an Elan and will be taking Thrallherd next level (That's a set requirement for this character: I don't want to change it, and I want to go up most of the way, if not to level 10.) I don't have a thrall yet, but I've stated her out and she's on the page, too.
I have access to Core books plus one extra book, plus one more book every 5 levels. So far, I've obviously chosen XPH, and I chose CPsion for level 5.
My basic role is Caster Support/Damage. Here's the rest of the party:
* Human Barbarian/Cleric
* Elf Dread Necro
* Human Artificer
* Halfling Monk
I intend for my Thrall do be front line melee, as the barbarian is mostly cleric.
Any questions? What do you guys think?
So, I've been playing this Psion in a Pathfinder game. I'm lovin' it pretty well, but I'm curious if I could do anything better. Also, I'm wondering if anyone has good rules on a Psion conversion.
Admittedly, I didn't make this character with OP in mind, so I doubt I hit anything on the head in that department. Still, I'm curious.
Here's a link to my character:
http://www.neceros.com/nworks/rpg-characters/able-fierce-psion/Able is CN, leaning towards evil. He's an Elan and will be taking Thrallherd next level (That's a set requirement for this character: I don't want to change it, and I want to go up most of the way, if not to level 10.) I don't have a thrall yet, but I've stated her out and she's on the page, too.
I have access to Core books plus one extra book, plus one more book every 5 levels. So far, I've obviously chosen XPH, and I chose CPsion for level 5.
My basic role is Caster Support/Damage. Here's the rest of the party:
* Human Barbarian/Cleric
* Elf Dread Necro
* Human Artificer
* Halfling MonkI intend for my Thrall do be front line melee, as the barbarian is mostly cleric.
Any questions? What do you guys think?
Probably don't need much in the way of conversion. Psions are pretty much set as far as keeping up with the new classes, I think. If you've got the stats for it, you might consider Body Fuel and Overchannel. You then have an "ace" up your sleeve in the form of the much-maligned nova burst.
Metamind might also be a really interesting way to go. You top out with fewer powers, but you gain abilities that manage to make up and even exceed what you might have been capable of with a pure psion build. And of course, a 10th level Metamind with Overchannel can unleash hell every round completely free. (1 minute/day)
You said Thrallherd though, so have you taken a look at the Mindbender in Complete Arcane? You could pick up a third thrall (although it would only be three permanent thralls if you took both classes to 10, epic levels...) It might actually be more effective to dip into Thrallherd and then hit up Mindbender 10.
|
For classes, I would echo Kuma: Mindbender from the Complete Arcane (perhaps your 10th lvl book) will net you increased Manifesting level, Telepathy 100', and fort/will saves. All for some skills you're probably already taking.
If you can get it, Mindsight (feat from Lords of Madness) is of fantastic utility, allowing you to perceive intelligences, types, and Int scores instantly. (perhaps your 15th lvl book)
For Powers, I notice your Psion lacks Vigor and Inertial Armor. These are great survival powers that scale very nicely. The Psychic Warrior has Vigor, so I am sure you know what it can do for you.
I would personally stay away from the Overchannel route with the Psion. As a telepath, you will rely on your save DC's to be maxed out, so Psionic Endowment, Greater Psionic Endowment, and Psychic Meditation may be better bets. Psicrystal Containment may be an option also, giving you 2 focuses to expend.
The standard spellcaster suite of Empower, Extend, and Quicken Power are all nice options, especially as Extend does not increase the # of PP spent, merely needing focus expenditure.
Finally, don't forget to use your believers. If they have low level powers (and thus PP), you can use Metaconcert and Bestow Power to grant yourself much more PP, higher save DC's, and regain powers you cast while in the Meta-Construct form (go Team Psionic Voltron!). Great for long-duration buffs or very high ML augments.
-t
Personally, I think there are better psionic books than Complete Psionic. Like Hyperconscious, for instance.
Personally, I think there are better psionic books than Complete Psionic. Like Hyperconscious, for instance.
[Hyperconscious] I use "Chrysalis" and "Alloyed Hide" for my Psion & Psychic Warrior all the time.
I'd also recommend Untapped Potential from Dreamscarred Press.Yeah, Complete Psionic isn't great, but it's got enough to recommend it for me.
IMO Complete Psionic is SO bad that its only real use is toilet paper.
Wait a minute!
Complete Psionics?
Larval Flayers
My Blue Psion, Grakkle, dang-near soloed a dragon with that power.
Also, Cranial Deluge can make heads explode. That's a prime cackling situation.
If you're interested in powers or power points, don't take Metamind. It might help you manifest more often, but it really cuts into your power-gain.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
If the DM uses psionic foes. Never EVER take Body fuel. Two words. 'Death Urge'
Telepathy (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Psion/wilder 4
Display: Mental
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level)
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 round
Saving Throw: Will negates
Power Resistance: Yes
Power Points: 7
You plant a hidden death-urge impulse in the subject’s unconscious. On the subject’s next turn, it looks for the quickest method to end its life and attempts to do so. The subject takes no other action on its turn except attempting to harm itself.
If armed, the subject attacks itself as a full-round action. The attack automatically succeeds and deals damage as a critical hit. If unarmed, the subject moves adjacent to the nearest enemy and provokes an attack of opportunity, offering its opponent an opening, which the opponent may or may not choose to take advantage of.
If the subject is unarmed and no enemy is nearby, the subject simply does nothing at all. A subject close to an immediate and lethal hazard such as a cliff or a fire might hurl itself off the cliff or into the fire instead of striking itself with a weapon.
Augment
For every 4 additional power points you spend, this power’s save DC increases by 2 and its duration increases by 1 round.
So someone manifests death urge you body fuel your self to zero con. Raise dead won't work (It can't heal your con up to one, since it's ability burn) and DM call on if Resurrection or True Res will work.
See if you can change your book selection. (in)Complete Psion was an example of a natural 1 on editing. Ideally if you could use The Mind's Eye as a book you'd be golden (I think it's still available on the WotC website) as you could pick up a Psychic Rogue as a cohort, and if you could take the Telepath substitution level at 5th, you'd get free telepathy (stepping stone for Mindsight)
Failing that, I second Untapped Potential, Hyperconscious, or any of the Dreamscarred books. You might have better luck with Hyperconscious, since BRC wrote it. If you have to stick with WOTC, then BoM has merit for that mindsight feat.
Now as the Thrallherd *cracks knuckles* Remember, thralls and followers are like Doritos. Crunch all you want, you'll get more. If you're looking at CG/NG look at them as students/followers, or your own merry band of anarchists. If you're Chaotic evil, they're like astral constructs, but make a bigger mess when their durations are up ;-) Also it doesn't matter how many die horrible deaths, they never reduce your thrallherd score.
I strongly recommend taking Thrallherd all the way to level 10. Having two thralls really allows for battlefield control. Make sure you have the errata from the SRD for Dominate. Also take Psionic Endowment and Psionic Endowment (Greater). Dominate is your bread and butter. If you can use Hyperconscious, then you've the 'Utter Thrall' augment available.
Once you hit 8th level it's possible to start the 'Thrallherd Daisy chain.' You take a 6th level thrall who is a thrallherd who has a 4th level thrall... Note: DM's frown on needing a tabbed three ring binder for your character sheet.
Also never underestimate the value of followers, espeically in an urban campaign. Experts help fill out holes in knowleges, adepts/wizards/sorcerers/clerics can help with healing/buffing/item creation prerequisits. Aristocrats can pave the way for you as facemen, etc.
Having two thralls really allows for battlefield control
You do realize that if he took, say, Thrallherd 5 and Mindbender 10; he'd have:
1 thrall
1 permanent dominate
4 permanent charms
3 free 15 hour suggestions/day
All good suggestions. Thank you. If anyone has more to say I'd love to hear it.
Here's what I have going on right now.
Most likely I am thinking about taking a Dragon Shaman cohort to help out the whole party. May be beneficial so everyone gets a little benefit from my thrall, even though it's all legal, I don't want anyone being misty eyed from me having a zillion things to do in a round.
I agree about Complete Psionics. I have gotten rid of it and, if I go with Dragon Shaman, will probably take PHBII. I have Untapped potential, and I thought about it, but I didn't see anything in there I wanted personally. I will look into Hyperconscious when I can afford it, though.
Second Question: What is a good Thrall to take? I Don't want anything cheesy, like the Daisy Chain. :)
All good suggestions. Thank you. If anyone has more to say I'd love to hear it.
Here's what I have going on right now.
Most likely I am thinking about taking a Dragon Shaman cohort to help out the whole party. May be beneficial so everyone gets a little benefit from my thrall, even though it's all legal, I don't want anyone being misty eyed from me having a zillion things to do in a round.
I agree about Complete Psionics. I have gotten rid of it and, if I go with Dragon Shaman, will probably take PHBII. I have Untapped potential, and I thought about it, but I didn't see anything in there I wanted personally. I will look into Hyperconscious when I can afford it, though.
Second Question: What is a good Thrall to take? I Don't want anything cheesy, like the Daisy Chain. :)
Never hurts to have another healer. If you're looking for a team player, Bard can be a strong choice. Or you could snag marshal or something with auras that buffs the party.
Having two thralls really allows for battlefield controlYou do realize that if he took, say, Thrallherd 5 and Mindbender 10; he'd have:
1 thrall
1 permanent dominate
4 permanent charms
3 free 15 hour suggestions/day
My problem with Mindbender is the 5 lost power levels. I've always like the class, but that is such a large hit to power.
However, I will consider this. I will weight the benefits, as my psion is going Tyrant-overlord type route.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Having two thralls really allows for battlefield controlYou do realize that if he took, say, Thrallherd 5 and Mindbender 10; he'd have:
1 thrall
1 permanent dominate
4 permanent charms
3 free 15 hour suggestions/day
Eh, Mindbender, Complete Mage, right? Don't have that book handy. I try to pretend it doesn't exist. :-)
|
Having two thralls really allows for battlefield controlYou do realize that if he took, say, Thrallherd 5 and Mindbender 10; he'd have:
1 thrall
1 permanent dominate
4 permanent charms
3 free 15 hour suggestions/dayMy problem with Mindbender is the 5 lost power levels. I've always like the class, but that is such a large hit to power.
However, I will consider this. I will weight the benefits, as my psion is going Tyrant-overlord type route.
If you're looking at being a tyrant, we need to talk about your law vs chaos index...
If you're looking at being a tyrant, we need to talk about your law vs chaos index...
My DM and I have had this discussion a few times to smooth out what's happening. We, as players, are loose about Alignments unless mechanics are involved or someone is grievous about abandoning the code.
It comes down to a personal code of honor for Able. He's chaotic in the fact that he doesn't like authority, he doesn't want to be held down in contracts and obligations and likes to see people in distress and sometimes pain. He's aiming to corrupt a little halfling monk right now.
However, he has a front. He tends to allow people their codes of conduct, as he wants to stick to his own. He will play the games needed to get by: He's not blood thirsty.
For instance, a group of bandits stopped our wagon and demanded passage. Without pause Able ask, "How much?" The bandits thought it out and asked for a fair 6gp. The bandits had to work for it by taking the gold from the hand of a Dread Necromancer who wanted dearly to drain them, but they got paid and we passed on without a fight. Had they decided to raise the price or not move out of the way they would have all died horribly.
Able is a nice, fair guy, but he has severe streaks of evil, chaotic games. So, what alignment is that?
Eh, Mindbender, Complete Mage, right? Don't have that book handy. I try to pretend it doesn't exist. :-)
Complete Arcane :)
|
|
Best cohorts you can have are
A: In the background.
B: Easy to equip
C: Provide multi-ally boosts
D: Ease of use in combat
With all that, a Dragon Shaman yields A, C, and D. Get some decent armor and weapon, some properly chosen feats, and everyone got just a little bit better.
Bards are a personal favorite, as are Cleric cohorts. Another melee combatant is usually not remiss.
As a Telepath, get that DC up as high as possible, so anyone that can bump the save DC directly (Bard/Sublime Chord, IIRC) or boost your casting stat (Insight? Sacred? untyped? not sure here, you'd have to go digging a bit)
As an Overlord style guy, perhaps Astral Construct, combined with Psionic Minor Creation (2 Expanded Knowledge's perhaps) to get your mooks some nasty contact poison/explosive/etc.
Sneaky playing can get you things like boats, bars, or brothels full of guys under your control, even more if you have someone to distract and provide reasonable entertainment. Bard comes in here nicely again.
-t
Best cohorts you can have are
A: In the background.
B: Easy to equip
C: Provide multi-ally boosts
D: Ease of use in combat
Good stuff here.
On the last note, Mindbender is just going too far and I don't get much out of it. I'd be left with 7th level powers, half the power points and gain telepathy (Which my psicrystal can do for me), charms, which will cost near nothing to cast, and one more thrall, which I don't really need as I'll be getting two eventually, both level 17 in the end.
However, I do like the thought of a bard. Pathfinder bards are pretty sweet. I'll take a quick glimpse at that compared to Dragon Shaman. :)
Eh, Mindbender, Complete Mage, right? Don't have that book handy. I try to pretend it doesn't exist. :-)
Complete Arcane. Significantly better, IMO.
Can't argue the lost manifester levels, but for your character idea... The Thrallherd gives a bunch of (largely pointless) bumps to psionic charm/dominate. Were you planning to use a great deal of control powers? Because with Mindbender you get constant telepathy (for giving orders) constant mindreading, free uses of charm, a bonus to all the "social manipulation" skills, +2/4 to manifester level for enchantment effects, and a free dominate each day (on top of the permanent one you can have at 10th).
It really is one of the few partial-caster classes that makes up for the lost levels, if only for a particular niche.
If nothing else, consider one level of Mindbender for the 100 ft. Telepathy. You won't lose a spell level and it makes giving orders to controlled subjects way less obvious.
[EDIT]
I see my entire post was already addressed elsewhere. *shrug*
I hate psicrystals so much... Lame*** familiar-esque nonsense.
I'm considering a werewolf template. However, Im confused as to what the finak level of my character would be.
It has a +3 LA, but I automatically get the bonuses of a 6hd animal, but my actual level would still be 5 (3 la and 2 psychic warrior)?
In the end, doing it this way, It seems mostly balance, if a little over powered.
http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf
This is what I used to detail my bonuses. I'm just confused.
I'm considering a werewolf template. However, Im confused as to what the finak level of my character would be.
It has a +3 LA, but I automatically get the bonuses of a 6hd animal, but my actual level would still be 5 (3 la and 2 psychic warrior)?
In the end, doing it this way, It seems mostly balance, if a little over powered.
http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf
This is what I used to detail my bonuses. I'm just confused.
Lycanthropes are a mighty pain to make work. The template is a little wonky and you wind up x hit dice behind everyone else.
... and you wind up x hit dice behind everyone else.
Strange, I ended up HD above everyone else. Template gives you the HD of the animal you are, which for a tiger is 6d8+18 plus your class HD.
... and you wind up x hit dice behind everyone else.Strange, I ended up HD above everyone else. Template gives you the HD of the animal you are, which for a tiger is 6d8+18 plus your class HD.
Right, you add the HD and the LA of the race together, along with any class levels, to determine your ECL. Let's say Weretiger is 6d8 and LA of +3, a 1st level weretiger fighter would have an Equivalent Character Level of 10 i.e. the rest of your party members should be level 10. At least that's how I understand that it works.
That is how it works, Meatrace. Add all racial and class HD together and then add your level adjustment. That's your effective level for XP, encounters and wealth by level, whereas your total HD controls everything else.
You can also only take one level of Mindbender to get the signature telepathy, if you'd rather, or you can use the WotC web enhancement to swap in your 5th-level telepath feat for 5' telepathy per class level.
Hmm. So, those extra levels from LA literally give you nothing regarding a character's well being (HP, Saves, BAB)? That severely gimps anyone who takes the Template.
A better method would be to give the HP, BAB etc of the amount of HD the LA gives, without actually increasing the effective level. Gimp.
That's the whole point of the LA, considering that you often get huge bonuses from the template. Iron Will, scent, DR silver, high stats, becoming a frigging animal - that's what the LA is for!
It is generally (not universally!) agreed that an LA of more than 1 or maybe 2 is crippling. Such things are usually best left for NPCs. Hit Dice gained from templates aren't so hot either, as they are often inferior to class levels. So a +3 LA and 6 monstrous humanoid HD is basically 9 wasted levels.
I never said it was a good investment - I just stated the terms of purchase :)
I never said it was a good investment - I just stated the terms of purchase :)
Says the guy with Lucifer as his icon :P
But yeah, the werebeast template will halt you in your tracks, but also remember that those monster HD give you BAB, HP, and skill. Probably not the ones you want with whatever class you were planning on, but still.
For the record, if you want to be a psionic werebeast you should check out the Shifter race from Eberron and the Claw psionic powers. I made a really good go at a character based on that concept back when Eberron first came out. Barbarian/PsyWar Shifter. Shifting is a free action, raging is a free action, claw powers are swift so you're ready to go right away no buffing downtime :D.
That did sound a bit Faustian, didn't it? :D Then again, if you check my profile, even my profile name comes from that of a bargainer devil *grin*
I see. Perhaps I'll ditch the HD and try to buy off the LA over time.
I see. Perhaps I'll ditch the HD and try to buy off the LA over time.
LA buy off can go a long way toward making a template useful, if your DM allows it.
However I don't believe ditching the HD is generally an option. I don't have the template you're talking about in front of me (source?) but if you're taking something with hit dice you pretty much have to keep the hit dice.
An example is, you're playing a bugbear: You'd have an LA of only +1, but 3 humanoid HD. You could buy off the LA, but the HD are a part of being a bugbear; you can't just ditch them. You could play a young, immature bugbear who hasn't GOT all 3 HD yet; and indeed, you'd have to to play in a low level game. But the way critters with HD/LA are supposed to work is that if you start the game at a reduced level, you have to take "racial" levels before any class levels. If you start as a 2nd level bugbear - +1 LA, 1 HD then your third and fourth level would have to be humanoid HD (it gets even more complicated if you want to start with no LA, let's not go into it). Once you were a full grown 3 HD bugbear you could buy off your LA or take class levels, but those 3 HD represent your status as a mature adult bugbear. You couldn't get rid of them any more than you could age backwards.
In other words, LA is a pure game term representing advantages over other creatures of similar level. Hit dice are a measure of your character's actual inherent health/being. The only way to get rid of HD is to literally change races.
In other words, LA is a pure game term representing advantages over other creatures of similar level. Hit dice are a measure of your character's actual inherent health/being. The only way to get rid of HD is to literally change races.
I hear ya. My issue is with balance. Most HD don't get you anything relatively decent, especially with Pathfinder. IT's way better to take class levels instead of HD. I'll talk to my DM about it, but It just isnt worth the HD.
Then don't be a lycanthrope. The whole point of changing into an animal is to be that animal and if you've given up the animal's HD, what exactly are you changing into?
The LA buy-off sounds like a good option though. Assuming that you're looking to play a natural lycanthrope, you can pay off the LA using the rules in Unearthed Arcana when you have 9, 15 and 18 total HD (class and racial).
You might also look at the insect(oid?) and reptilian templates for a guide on how to make a more "bestial" character without changing HD.
You could always try to make a monster class using the Savage Species rules. Basically you would have a monster class, say 6 levels, and only get a HD every other level. The stat bonuses and abilities are slowly gained/staggered, and the other levels being LA buyoff. After you are a fully formed lycanthrope (lvl 6) you can start taking class levels.