Hello all,
My understanding is that the Maximize Spell feat (as it pertains to a wizard) is applied at spell prep time due to the feat being a metamagic feat.
Can this feat be applied to all spells being prepared? Or just one?
Also, a sentence in the manual that leaves me with questions is: "Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal."
So, for a level 1 Wizard using Maximize Spell on a Level 1 spell... what? It consumes a level 2 slot? Which he does not have? Or can a level 1 wizard only use this on a level 0 spell, and in doing so he loses his level 1 spell slot? I'm confused and probably over thinking it.
Sorry, I'm a noob trying to understand. I do try to research first before posting. Thanks for helping me out.
Norro
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If you use a metamagic feat that says the spell takes up one higher slot, then yes, you must be capable of casting those spells in order to do so.
For example, a 3rd level Wizard (with access to 1st and 2nd level spells) could prepare a Magic Missile in this way, but not any of their 2nd level spells.
A 1st level Wizard would only be able to do this to Cantrips, and they would take up a 1st level slot (assuming, again, that the metamagic feat only increases the effective spell level by 1).
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
To reply to the rest of your query, you can apply it to any number of spells (one, some, all, or none), but the boost in spell level slot it takes up applies to each spell you use it on. In other words, if you're a 5th level wizard, you can prepare a Stilled Spell shield (as a 2nd level spell) and a stilled spell invisibility (as a 3rd level spell), but maybe you decide to keep magic missile unmodified (a 1st level spell, and it stays 1st level). And your fireball can't be Stilled, because you have no 4th level spell slots.
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And remember that some metamagic feats increase the spell level by more than one. Maximize spell, for example, increases the spell level by 3, so a maximized magic missile is actually a 4th level spell and must either be prepared as a 4th level spell or expend a 4th level spell slot if you are a spontaneous caster (like a Sorcerer).
Of course, metamagic feats stack. For example, a silent maximized shocking grasp is a 5th level spell (a 1st level spell, +3 for being maximized, +1 for being silent).
So to further clarify (I think Nethys may have added a bit of confusion with his wording).
Preparing a maximized magic missile requires a 4th level slot because maximize adds 3 spell levels to the prepared spell.
And before you ask, No, I cannot think of any 1st level spell I would maximize into a 4th level slot. I would rather prepare a 4th level spell instead.
Edit: simultaneous ninja!
Right. So, for the OP's example, a 1st level wizard cannot Maximize any spells at all, because a maximized 0-level spell takes up a 3rd level slot. You've got to be at least 5th level (and thus have access to 3rd level slots) in order to maximize a 0-level spell.
Which means that no one under 5th level should select Maximize Spell as a feat, because they're better off picking something they can use, and save the metamagic feats for later in their career.
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Right. So, for the OP's example, a 1st level wizard cannot Maximize any spells at all, because a maximized 0-level spell takes up a 3rd level slot. You've got to be at least 5th level (and thus have access to 3rd level slots) in order to maximize a 0-level spell.
... and then you have the joy of shooting maximized ray of frost all over the place! Suck on 3 cold damage, evildoers!
Wow... that sucks! I'm gonna have to break it to my Wizard softly. I already let him maximize a level 1 spell once...
My whole crew is new to this - as am I. I guess I should have a suggestion for an alternate feat for him.... eh... so, any suggestions?
:) Thanks!
Norro
A good feat for a low level wizard, eh?
Point Blank Shot is good if you plan on using ray spells. (+1 to hit and damage on all rays within 30')
Improved Initiative is good for staying out of trouble.
Toughness can be nice if you like to get in the melee mix.
Extend Spell for buffs and Summons, or a Rope Trick spell.
Spell Focus - conjuration if you want to then take augment summons (or other school if you think you will be casting those a lot). Evocation, Enchantment, and Necromancy are popular, but all schools could benefit.
Spell Penetration - you might not use it for a while, but when you need it, you will wish you already have it.
I think the best 5th level Wizard Bonus feat is Craft Wand.
I have found that it is tough to pick a feat at low levels because they mostly benefit higher level casters. When you reach higher levels, there are likely to be several different options that are appealing.
For your 1st level feat, now that Concentration skill is gone, Combat Casting is going to be hard to beat for wizards (unless you take Skill Focus: Acrobatics instead and then max out Acrobatics skill, so you can always dance out of people's reach).
For your 3rd level feat, Brew Potion is a dandy choice.
I guess I should have a suggestion for an alternate feat for him.... eh... so, any suggestions?
Wizard feats in Core are a very tough nut to crack.
There are all the item creation feats, but they have a big inherent problem:
Item Creation feats take time. Sure, you can whip up a handful of potions or scrolls in day while resting in town. Those are OK. Beyond that, you're looking at a lot of time.
(note, a level 1 wizard can't even take many of the other item creation feats due to level restrictions, so this applies a bit later in the game).
Suppose a wizard wants to sit down and whip up a +4 sword for the group's fighter. This will take 32 days to complete - in a quiet, safe, workshop.
Will the rest of the group sit around town, goosing wenches and chugging ale while the wizard works? Will the campaign allow them to take that long a break? Will the wizard take this feat to make just one sword one time, or will he make many magical weapons ultimately requiring years worth of breaks to complete?
Or will the party say "Hey, we're gonna go hit this dungeon while you work on that. See you in a couple weeks..."? When they get back, the wizard is halfway done, but the rest of his buddies went up a level and looted a dozen magic items, including a +4 sword that the fighter is very content with...
Or, the wizard can alternately work on the item while adventuring by spending 128 adventuring days working on the same +4 sword. What are the odds that the group will even want that +4 sword when the wizard is done? 128 days? Heck, they'll have gone up 6 levels and that fighter will be swinging a +5 flaming ghost touch sword by then...
Note: after Scribe Scrolls (wizards get this at first level for free) and Brew Potions, maybe the next best is Craft Wands. A first level wand can be whipped up in a day (or 4 adventuring days) and Enlarge Person or Color Spray can be handy. Maybe a few others. A wand of 2nd level spells takes 5 days in town or 18 adventuring days, but stuff like Glitterdust or Invisibility never grows old. 3rd level wands start to get into the range of taking too long at 12 days in town or 45 adventuring days, but there's some good stuff that can be done. This may be the best choice for a wizard's 5th or 10th level bonus feat.
I would highly recommend that your wizard's player ignore these feats unless you are certain that this campaign will allow lots of time for him to sit around making items. If the campaign won't allow this, then the wizard will get little or no use from these feats.
Then there are the metamagic feats. There are active threads still running today/yesterday on this forum that discuss problems with metamagic, but in short:
Metamagic feats don't help you at low levels, as you've just found out.
Metamagic feats are expensive, requiring higher level slots to get a little bit more effect - usually, you can just put a higher level spell in that slot that will do more than the metamagic spell would have done and you can do so without spending a feat.
So why spend a feat to put a weak spell into a higher level slot when you can choose to not spend that feat and put a better spell in the same slot?
Sure, there are times when a certain combination of the right spell and the right metamagic feat makes a good combo and might be worth preparing the combined higher-level spell slot. But even so, it is worth spending a whole feat to use just this rare combo that you won't even want to cast every day? Couldn't you find something more practical for that feat?
The answer is almost always yes, though some players disagree with my assessment. Note: many who disagree are looking at it from the viewpoint of a Sorcerer and not as a Wizard. Sorcerers get much more benefit from metamagic than wizards do because they don't have to guess in advance if the rare situation will arise that needs a special metamagic/spell combo.
I would advise your wizard to ignore metamagic feats. Even though some combos are effective, those are rarely needed and hard to recognize, and a new player such as your wizard's player will probably only weaken his limited effectiveness by misusing the feats until he gains much more proficiency with the rules and the game system.
So if Item Creation and Metamagic are ruled out, what's left?
Other ideas:
Augment Summoning: If the wizard likes the Summon Monster line of spells, I highly recommend Augment Summoning, but that requires Spell Focus (Conjuration) first, so it's two feats (the first one won't get him much benefit, slightly better save DCs when he casts conjuration spells that require a save - which most of them don't). Since Summon spells are fairly weak, spending two feats to make them less weak is a poor option, but not a worthless option. So it boils down to whether he likes summoning stuff.
Combat Casting: This one is almost a must have, especially with the recent info from Paizo that they are making it harder to make concentration checks in combat. This feat will greatly enhance the wizard's ability to cast spells when he is threatened by enemies. It's not mandatory, but it is certainly high on my list of good feats for all casters.
Dodge: +1 Ac never hurts anyone. Ultimately though, this is mostly wasted at all but the lowest levels, because when you reach even mid-level (say level 7 or so), anything that wants to hit the wizard will hit him, with or without this feat.
Eschew Materials: This is mediocre. The game already allows you to have a Spell Component Pouch for very little cost. Any first level wizard can afford it. So the only time you need this feat is when you find yourself naked. Say, if you got captured and thrown in a cell with none of your possessions. The rest of the time it's mostly a waste of a feat.
Improved Initiative: Never hurts to go first. Especially if your plan is to drop a big old Fireball to clear out a bunch of the enemy minions quickly - get them before they can get you. This is high on my wizard priority list.
Magical Aptitude: Don't fall for this. It looks like wizards should take it, but Spellcraft is becoming less useful and Use Magical Device is really not much of a wizard's thing anyway. This would almost certainly be a wasted feat.
Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Many wizard spells require you to make a Ranged Touch Attack (Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray, etc.). In fact, some wizards specialize in doing this very thing. These two feats let you do extra damage up close and then more importantly, they let you fire your spells at targets your allies are fighting without taking a -4 penalty on the ranged touch attack roll. These feats won't help you at all if you are using Magic Missiles, Fireballs, Glitterdusts, Walls of Stone, Circles of Death, etc., or if you usually just cast on your allies, or if you like to summon monsters, etc. So consider your current and future spell path carefully before selecting these. My wizard in my current campaign took these two feats first and second, but I am really focusing on this kind of spell.
Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus: These feats are quite handy if you are a specialist or if you favor a specific school of arcane magic more than the rest. Making it harder for your enemies to save is critical to a wizard's success unless he mostly casts spells on his friends (Enlarge, Bear's Endurance, Invisibility, etc.) in which case it's mostly worthless. It's also mostly worthless if your wizard prepares many spells from different schools - these feats would only benefit a fraction of the spell such a wizard would cast.
Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration: Very good feats. The only time I would advise a wizard NOT to take these feats is if he almost always just casts spells on his allies (Enlarge, Bear's Endurance, Invisibility, etc.) since they won't be resisting his spells. But if he wants to cast spell on enemies, then he will need these feats. Note: He won't need them for a while since low-level encounters almost never have Spell Resistance. But it's a good idea to get both of these feats before reaching 10th level, or maybe even a bit sooner.
Spell Mastery: This may be a great feat, or a wasted feat. Most DMs allow their wizards to carry their spellbooks everywhere they go. Most DMs never, or hardly ever, take those spellbooks away. Which means that most wizards can go their whole careers without ever using this feat - it would be wasted on them. But, when the day comes that a wizard is captured, or his spellbook is stolen, or destroyed (whoops, fell into lava again?), or whatever, this feat can save his life. Don't select fireball and magic missile. Select Teleport so you can get back home. Select Knock and Invisibility so you can open your jail cell and sneak through the enemy to escape. Think of emergencies where you won't have your spellbook and what spells can save you in those emergencies. Me, I haven't taken this yet on any wizard, but it's still a decent idea.
Toughness: Even though Pathfinder improved the HP of the wizard, it never hurts to have more.
And that's it. Nothing else really worth mentioning in the Core BETA rules.
So I would list them roughly in this order.
Augment Summoning - only for summoners or take this off the list
Point Blank Shot - only for casting lots of ranged touch attacks or take this off the list
Precise Shot - only for casting lots of ranged touch attacks or take this off the list
Combat Casting
Spell Focus - primarily for specialists or take this off the list
Greater Spell Focus - primarily for specialists or take this off the list
Improved Initiative
Dodge
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Toughness
Spell Mastery
Eschew Materials
Item Creation Feats
Metamagic Feats
Side note: wizards get bonus feats every now and then. At 5th level, take Brew Potion, probably the only decent item creation feat in most campaigns. At 10th level, hopefully the player has learned enough, and the campaign style is evident enough, that deciding between another Item Creation feat or a specific Metamagic Feat might be feasible. Talk to me in 9 levels and I'll have more advice...
That's my take, and as you can see, some of it varies based on what kind of caster your wizard wants to be. And I'm sure that a hundred people on this forum can log in here and dispute many of my points.
Just remember a couple things:
1. There is no one right way to play a wizard. This info is intended to be straight-forward, easy to understand, suggestions for a new player.
2. I did try to simplify this somewhat. While it's geared toward a new player, I also want it to be valid enough, and strong enough so that, 6 months from now, he won't have a character sheet full of feats he never uses.
I hope that helps.
Eschew Materials: This is mediocre. The game already allows you to have a Spell Component Pouch for very little cost. Any first level wizard can afford it. So the only time you need this feat is when you find yourself naked. Say, if you got captured and thrown in a cell with none of your possessions. The rest of the time it's mostly a waste of a feat.
Improved Initiative: Never hurts to go first. Especially if your plan is to drop a big old Fireball to clear out a bunch of the enemy minions quickly - get them before they can get you. This is high on my wizard priority list.
Depending on the campaign, I might put Eschew Materials at #1 on the list. Some DMs enjoy having enemies pickpocket your spell component pouch, or Sunder it in combat, etc. Eschew Materials protects almost all of your spells from that sort of tampering. Other DMs (like Blake apparently) just treat the pouch as a "given" and don't ever target it, in which case the feat has a lot less value.
I agree 100% with Improved Initiative as a very high-priority feat for spellcasters, or just about anyone else for that matter.
Thank you very much for all of the great suggestions. Reading through the Feat list is helpful, but not near as much as hearing opinions from the folks who have used them and know them more in-depth.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm going to send this thread to my wizard.
For what it is worth, he's selected Evocation and Arcane Bond (ring) for his wizard and has the intention of building a high damage character.
Thanks again,
Norro