CMB / CMD from previews

[A T]

What are the formulas for these two?

It does not look like they are the same as in beta when I look at the previews.

[Nevynxxx]

From the Bestiary...

CMD = 10 + Str Mod + Dex Mod + BAB + Special Size Mod + any bonus that normally adds to AC except Armour, natural armour, shield, and size bonuses.

CMB = BAB + Str Mod + Special Size Mod.

Special Size Mod, goes -8 for fine through -2, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 4, 8 for colossal....

Possibly only applies for Monsters, but I doubt it....

[toyrobots]

:D

[Quandary]

Nevynxxx wrote:

CMD = 10 + Str Mod + Dex Mod + BAB + Special Size Mod + any bonus that normally adds to AC except Armour, natural armour, shield, and size bonuses.

AKA

Touch AC + BAB + STR + Special Size Mod
if Special Size Mod = -2x normal size mod ("compensating" for Touch AC already including Size Mod), then you can use Touch AC "as is", otherwise (if it = -1x normal) you have to recalculate it from scratch (10 + Dodge Mods + Deflect Mod) ...same result.

Can we get a preview of a dextrous melee type to show off if Weapon Finesse supersedes Dextrous Maneuvers? :-)

[A T]

Quandary wrote:

Nevynxxx wrote:

CMD = 10 + Str Mod + Dex Mod + BAB + Special Size Mod + any bonus that normally adds to AC except Armour, natural armour, shield, and size bonuses.

AKA

Touch AC + BAB + STR + Special Size Mod
if Special Size Mod = -2x normal size mod ("compensating" for Touch AC already including Size Mod), then you can use Touch AC "as is", otherwise (if it = -1x normal) you have to recalculate it from scratch (10 + Dodge Mods + Deflect Mod) ...same result.

Can we get a preview of a dextrous melee type to show off if Weapon Finesse supersedes Dextrous Maneuvers? :-)

So...

CMD = Touch AC + CMB?

[Jason Bulmahn]

A T wrote:

So...

CMD = Touch AC + CMB?

Sort of... but with the special size modifier, not the standard one for AC and attack rolls. Using the standard size modifier made larger monsters ridiculously easy to trip, grapple, and bull rush, which does not make much sense.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

[Quandary]

A T wrote:

So...

CMD = Touch AC + CMB?

Well, if someone has the Feat allowing DEX instead of STR for Melee/ Maneuver Attack Rolls (perhaps one and the same), simplifying/"collapsing" it that much either means you can "double up" on DEX defensively for CMD, or there needs to be extra wording specifically precluding that (which evades the point of the simpler wording).

[toyrobots]

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

A T wrote:

So...

CMD = Touch AC + CMB?

Sort of... but with the special size modifier, not the standard one for AC and attack rolls. Using the standard size modifier made larger monsters ridiculously easy to trip, grapple, and bull rush, which does not make much sense.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

The way I like to explain it to my players:

CMD is a special Touch AC used when larger size works in your favor instead of against you.

Likewise Combat Maneuvers are attacks where larger size is advantageous.

We like to call the special size modifier "flipping" the size mod.