Ok I just looked at the forum HERE
And I was wondering, was it really necessary taking mithral full plate out of the hands of barbarians?
I am sure there are a lot of other classes that will suffer as much, but really, was it that game breaking?
How about a cheap mithral armor specific magical effect that allows this?
Well not really much we can do now, but thought I would give you my thoughts.
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It's most certainly not out of their hands. They just need to take Heavy Armor Proficiency now to use it without the -X penalty to their attacks (where X is whatever the Armor Check Penalty is, not sure if they changed those or not).
After that, they could still use it and treat it as a Medium armor otherwise.
I support the rule change, I always used it that way anyway. It's heavy armor type, even if the material it's made out of makes it act as though it was lighter.
Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
By the way, there is nothing keeping a barbarian from taking "Armor Proficiency, Heavy" with one of the new feat slots.
Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
Rangers too.
And WarMages.
Really, it's just one more feat for a million more points of AC - you can't do that with any other feat.
I too was houseruling this (I'm not entirely sure it was a houserule, since I don't even know what or where the offical rule for mithral can be found, but I always assumed it was either RAW or RAI to be heavy armor that only counted as medium for class abilities and such).
Rangers too.Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.
Not sure it is applicable here since it is 3.5 rules but, in the Magic Item Compendium pg6 it does state officially that mithril armor is treated as a weight category lower for "purpose of movement, proficiency, and other limitations". We always house ruled it also.
This change makes sense to me. Mithral was always "the broken metal" to me, but I also apply "sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" logic, so if the players went heavy on mithral armor, so did the NPCs and their BABs got better. Obviously, if they focus on armor, the players want more combat, right? So therefore *everybody* wants more combat, too.
So, for me, at first glance, the requirement of Armor Prof (heavy) is a reasonable price to pay for the lighter armor.
Or you could just control the source of the mithral in the first place...
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Not sure it is applicable here since it is 3.5 rules but, in the Magic Item Compendium pg6 it does state officially that mithril armor is treated as a weight category lower for "purpose of movement, proficiency, and other limitations". We always house ruled it also.
Hmmm, I didn't catch that before. Just checked the errata for the MIC as well and it's not changed in there either...
And I was wondering, was it really necessary taking mithral full plate out of the hands of barbarians?
Yes! If they're too dumb to put it on, they should not be proficient in it. :P
Anyway, barbarian in mithral full plate screams cissy.
Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Rangers too.Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
Makes me think of the song "Shiny Happy People".
:)
I would love to see the look on the ranger's face:
Ranger: I sneak up to the orcs and attack from behind.
DM: They're waiting for you and have prepared an amush.
Ranger: From behind?
DM: Yep, from behind.
Ranger: How?
Orcs: Dude, we've been watching you sneak through the grass in your mirror-bright chrome full plate for hours now. We're lucky you haven't blinded us.
Ranger: Doh!
By the way, there is nothing keeping a barbarian from taking "Armor Proficiency, Heavy" with one of the new feat slots.
Agreed, but unless you get like another 4 more feats, and even then, you will always feel like you need another.
This change makes sense to me. Mithral was always "the broken metal" to me, but I also apply "sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" logic, so if the players went heavy on mithral armor, so did the NPCs and their BABs got better. Obviously, if they focus on armor, the players want more combat, right? So therefore *everybody* wants more combat, too.
So, for me, at first glance, the requirement of Armor Prof (heavy) is a reasonable price to pay for the lighter armor.
Or you could just control the source of the mithral in the first place...
Armor is hardly worth wearing as it is. If you want really high AC get yourself some celestial chain shirt +1 and bracers of armor 8. In the higher levels where +6 dex items are the norm, and books are becoming available, the feats for these armors become less useful and more of a restriction, and eventually useless, as you lose ways of increasing the max dex of the armor.
Now with the recent announcements that medium and heavy armor's AC is increasing by 1 then that improves things, a little, however at low levels mithral breastplate, or celestrial, is still ideal.
If you want really high AC get yourself some celestial chain shirt +1 and bracers of armor 8.
Are you talking about the celestial armor in the SRD?
Because if you are, a +1 chan shirt doesn't stack with +8 bracers of armor - you still only wind up with a +8 armor bonus.
Or is there some other version of celestial armor I don't know about that somehow lets them stack?
Or did you mean "or" where you wrote "and"?
Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Rangers too.Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
Makes me think of the song "Shiny Happy People".
:)
I would love to see the look on the ranger's face:
Ranger: I sneak up to the orcs and attack from behind.
DM: They're waiting for you and have prepared an amush.
Ranger: From behind?
DM: Yep, from behind.
Ranger: How?
Orcs: Dude, we've been watching you sneak through the grass in your mirror-bright chrome full plate for hours now. We're lucky you haven't blinded us.
Ranger: Doh!
LOL
I have players using Mithral too, plus adamantine. I've always penalized 10 points on a sneak roll if you're using bright shiny armor. On the other hand, if you have it Blued (MIC) then that goes away (since the metal is now a dark non-shiny metal). Of course, the blueing gives a bonus too, so it's all good.
If you want really high AC get yourself some celestial chain shirt +1 and bracers of armor 8.Are you talking about the celestial armor in the SRD?
Because if you are, a +1 chan shirt doesn't stack with +8 bracers of armor - you still only wind up with a +8 armor bonus.
Or is there some other version of celestial armor I don't know about that somehow lets them stack?
Or did you mean "or" where you wrote "and"?
Sorry I meant +5 celestial chain shirt
That way you get a 8 Armor, probably 9 now with the new rules, and +5 enhancement bonus, which does stack with the armor bonus.
Celestial armor is not made simple for player use, but can be annualized and broken down to work with any metal armor, like super mithral.
Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Rangers too.Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
Makes me think of the song "Shiny Happy People".
:)
I would love to see the look on the ranger's face:
Ranger: I sneak up to the orcs and attack from behind.
DM: They're waiting for you and have prepared an amush.
Ranger: From behind?
DM: Yep, from behind.
Ranger: How?
Orcs: Dude, we've been watching you sneak through the grass in your mirror-bright chrome full plate for hours now. We're lucky you haven't blinded us.
Ranger: Doh!LOL
I have players using Mithral too, plus adamantine. I've always penalized 10 points on a sneak roll if you're using bright shiny armor. On the other hand, if you have it Blued (MIC) then that goes away (since the metal is now a dark non-shiny metal). Of course, the blueing gives a bonus too, so it's all good.
Applying black tar, or other tarnishing/darkening substance, is not that hard. My more sneaker characters do that all the time.
If you want really high AC get yourself some celestial chain shirt +1 and bracers of armor 8.Are you talking about the celestial armor in the SRD?
Because if you are, a +1 chan shirt doesn't stack with +8 bracers of armor - you still only wind up with a +8 armor bonus.
Or is there some other version of celestial armor I don't know about that somehow lets them stack?
Or did you mean "or" where you wrote "and"?
Sorry I meant +5 celestial chain shirt
That way you get a 8 Armor, probably 9 now with the new rules, and +5 enhancement bonus, which does stack with the armor bonus.
Celestial armor is not made simple for player use, but can be annualized and broken down to work with any metal armor, like super mithral.
Ah, now I see your point.
But unless I misremember, they said +1 only for medium and heavy armor. Chain shirt, being light, may not be getting a +1. Of all the armors in the game, it needs it the least - I thought the +1 bonus was to help the unloved armors be more loved, not to help the most-loved armor become even better.
I could be wrong.
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Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Rangers too.Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
Only now, the ranger in your game can burn a feat slot and be able to wear Mithral Full plate...(or take a level of Paladin or Fighter or any PrC that grants Heavy armor prof.
If you want really high AC get yourself some celestial chain shirt +1 and bracers of armor 8.Are you talking about the celestial armor in the SRD?
Because if you are, a +1 chan shirt doesn't stack with +8 bracers of armor - you still only wind up with a +8 armor bonus.
Or is there some other version of celestial armor I don't know about that somehow lets them stack?
Or did you mean "or" where you wrote "and"?
Sorry I meant +5 celestial chain shirt
That way you get a 8 Armor, probably 9 now with the new rules, and +5 enhancement bonus, which does stack with the armor bonus.
Umm, no. Enhancement bonuses apply only to the object they are on, not a different one; so that's a +9 armor plus enhancement bonus from the chain shirt (+10 for a full chain mail) OR the +8 armor bonus from the bracers, NOT +8 armor bonus from the bracers plus +5 enhancement bonus from the chain shirt. Allowing the enhancement bonus from enchanted armor to add on to bracers of armor is abusing the rules (as much as fighting with two weapons and claiming the higher enhancement bonus on both).
Only now, the ranger in your game can burn a feat slot and be able to wear Mithral Full plate...(or take a level of Paladin or Fighter or any PrC that grants Heavy armor prof.Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Rangers too.Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
Yep, and unless they have made great strides (no Strider pun intended) with the ranger since BETA, there are probably levels where a level of fighter would be preferred.
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bah, too many quotes.../SNIP!!!!!
you can't have mithral+adamantine in the same suit...1 special material per piece of armor
or black lacquer...or grey...or any color you want...
Correct you only apply the highest bonus, so if you take +8 bracers, and add them to +5 celestial chain you end up with 9AC and the ability to fly...(while your bracers will protect you from nasty incorporeal things that rip through your armor)
or black lacquer...or grey...or any color you want...Applying black tar, or other tarnishing/darkening substance, is not that hard. My more sneaker characters do that all the time.Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Rangers too.Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
Makes me think of the song "Shiny Happy People".
:)
I would love to see the look on the ranger's face:
Ranger: I sneak up to the orcs and attack from behind.
DM: They're waiting for you and have prepared an amush.
Ranger: From behind?
DM: Yep, from behind.
Ranger: How?
Orcs: Dude, we've been watching you sneak through the grass in your mirror-bright chrome full plate for hours now. We're lucky you haven't blinded us.
Ranger: Doh!LOL
I have players using Mithral too, plus adamantine. I've always penalized 10 points on a sneak roll if you're using bright shiny armor. On the other hand, if you have it Blued (MIC) then that goes away (since the metal is now a dark non-shiny metal). Of course, the blueing gives a bonus too, so it's all good.
It's mithral for petes sake. Light, dense, impossibly smooth. Like teflon.
How long will paint stick to teflon?
No doubt, it sticks even less to mithral.
(Ok, I made that stuff up).
Besides, after you're done tarring and feathering your rangers, or slathering them in black Verathane, and they those rangers go off sneaking through the dirt and underbrush, when they get to their foes they will have 120 pounds of local terrain features stuck to the gunk they put on their armor, which will feel like it weighs a ton, not to mention all that goopey stuff gumming up their articulation...
Back to the drawing board, you shiny happy rangers!
bah, too many quotes.../SNIP!!!!!
you can't have mithral+adamantine in the same suit...1 special material per piece of armor
or black lacquer...or grey...or any color you want...
Correct you only apply the highest bonus, so if you take +8 bracers, and add them to +5 celestial chain you end up with 9AC and the ability to fly...(while your bracers will protect you from nasty incorporeal things that rip through your armor)
I said they were wearing Mithral and Adamantine armor. Sorry, should have been clear. I have some characters wearing Mithral, and some wearing adamantine (specifically, the marshall is wearing mithral, the duskblade is wearing adamantine, while the fighter/cleric is wearing dragonhide, and the druid is wearing sharkskin).
Yes, you can paint your armor, and I've never disallowed that. Of course, the players never asked to do it, so until they think of it then I have no obvious reason to point out they can. :)
And agree'd, you can only get an enhancement bonus to the item you have the enhancemen bonus on, not adding it to another item.
It's mithral for petes sake. Light, dense, impossibly smooth. Like teflon.How long will paint stick to teflon?
No doubt, it sticks even less to mithral.
(Ok, I made that stuff up).
LOL
Besides, after you're done tarring and feathering your rangers, or slathering them in black Verathane, and they those rangers go off sneaking through the dirt and underbrush, when they get to their foes they will have 120 pounds of local terrain features stuck to the gunk they put on their armor, which will feel like it weighs a ton, not to mention all that goopey stuff gumming up their articulation...Back to the drawing board, you shiny happy rangers!
LOL,
Agreed though, tarring and feathering them is a bad idea. On the other hand, dieing leather green is not unusual (or brown, or light tan for desert). Black for urban, etc.And I have no issues with them painting the armor to make it match the environment (in fact, I'd allow a ranger with craft(armor) and survival to make an averaged check to paint his armor, add bits of natural stuff, moss, etc to make himself more camouflaged, maybe a +2 to +5 bonus.), although the first fight you get in that paint is going to be chipped and cracked with shiny stuff showing through. Assuming you are hit. A fireball would burn the paint ruining the effect (unless it was black paint). Acid would burn the paint right off. That's one reason why I prefer the blueing effect, it's magical and doesn't wear off or get scratched off.
Umm, no. Enhancement bonuses apply only to the object they are on, not a different one; so that's a +9 armor plus enhancement bonus from the chain shirt (+10 for a full chain mail) OR the +8 armor bonus from the bracers, NOT +8 armor bonus from the bracers plus +5 enhancement bonus from the chain shirt. Allowing the enhancement bonus from enchanted armor to add on to bracers of armor is abusing the rules (as much as fighting with two weapons and claiming the higher enhancement bonus on both).If you want really high AC get yourself some celestial chain shirt +1 and bracers of armor 8.Are you talking about the celestial armor in the SRD?
Because if you are, a +1 chan shirt doesn't stack with +8 bracers of armor - you still only wind up with a +8 armor bonus.
Or is there some other version of celestial armor I don't know about that somehow lets them stack?
Or did you mean "or" where you wrote "and"?
Sorry I meant +5 celestial chain shirt
That way you get a 8 Armor, probably 9 now with the new rules, and +5 enhancement bonus, which does stack with the armor bonus.
Source please, as last I checked the rules said bonuses of different types stack, while bonuses of the same type do not.
or black lacquer...or grey...or any color you want...Applying black tar, or other tarnishing/darkening substance, is not that hard. My more sneaker characters do that all the time.Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Rangers too.Seems to make plenty of sense to me. Seriously, Barbarians in Full Plate?
Did my sarcasm-meter miss something? :)
Makes me think of the song "Shiny Happy People".
:)
I would love to see the look on the ranger's face:
Ranger: I sneak up to the orcs and attack from behind.
DM: They're waiting for you and have prepared an amush.
Ranger: From behind?
DM: Yep, from behind.
Ranger: How?
Orcs: Dude, we've been watching you sneak through the grass in your mirror-bright chrome full plate for hours now. We're lucky you haven't blinded us.
Ranger: Doh!LOL
I have players using Mithral too, plus adamantine. I've always penalized 10 points on a sneak roll if you're using bright shiny armor. On the other hand, if you have it Blued (MIC) then that goes away (since the metal is now a dark non-shiny metal). Of course, the blueing gives a bonus too, so it's all good.
It's mithral for petes sake. Light, dense, impossibly smooth. Like teflon.
How long will paint stick to teflon?
No doubt, it sticks even less to mithral.
(Ok, I made that stuff up).
Besides, after you're done tarring and feathering your rangers, or slathering them in black Verathane, and they those rangers go off sneaking through the dirt and underbrush, when they get to their foes they will have 120 pounds of local terrain features stuck to the gunk they put on their armor, which will feel like it weighs a ton, not to mention all that goopey stuff gumming up their articulation...
Back to the drawing board, you shiny happy rangers!
Two Words "Sovereign Glue"
Source please, as last I checked the rules said bonuses of different types stack, while bonuses of the same type do not.
The exact situation you quote, as answered in the official FAQ.
I have a bard in my game who has a bit of money to spend. She buys a set of bracers of armor +3 and a suit of +3 leather armor. If the bard wears both at the same time, the armor bonus from the bracers (+3) overrides the armor bonus from the leather armor (+1). Our question is, does the +3 enhancement bonus from the armor still get applied for a total of +6, is it subsumed by the magic of the bracers, or is it just ignored completely? Since the enhancement bonus and armor bonus are different types of bonuses, the bard thinks her total Armor Class bonus should be +6.
The magic leather armor’s +3 enhancement bonus applies to make the armor’s armor bonus bigger (+4 in this case). The example character uses only the larger armor bonus (+4) when wearing both the armor and the bracers. The overlapping +3 bonus from the bracers is still there, however. (It is just irrelevant most of the time.) If something bypasses the +4 bonus from the magic armor, the bracers might still prove effective. For example, an incorporeal touch attack bypasses the whole armor bonus from the magic armor. Since the bracers provide a force effect, they protect the bard against the incorporeal touch attack. The example character still has a +3 armor bonus against the incorporeal touch attack.
Source please, as last I checked the rules said bonuses of different types stack, while bonuses of the same type do not.
The exact situation you quote, as answered in the official FAQ.
I have a bard in my game who has a bit of money to spend. She buys a set of bracers of armor +3 and a suit of +3 leather armor. If the bard wears both at the same time, the armor bonus from the bracers (+3) overrides the armor bonus from the leather armor (+1). Our question is, does the +3 enhancement bonus from the armor still get applied for a total of +6, is it subsumed by the magic of the bracers, or is it just ignored completely? Since the enhancement bonus and armor bonus are different types of bonuses, the bard thinks her total Armor Class bonus should be +6.
The magic leather armor’s +3 enhancement bonus applies to make the armor’s armor bonus bigger (+4 in this case). The example character uses only the larger armor bonus (+4) when wearing both the armor and the bracers. The overlapping +3 bonus from the bracers is still there, however. (It is just irrelevant most of the time.) If something bypasses the +4 bonus from the magic armor, the bracers might still prove effective. For example, an incorporeal touch attack bypasses the whole armor bonus from the magic armor. Since the bracers provide a force effect, they protect the bard against the incorporeal touch attack. The example character still has a +3 armor bonus against the incorporeal touch attack.
Thank you very much! I did not know that.
Thank you very much! I did not know that.
No problem, it was a thorny issue in my game as well, for about 2 days. Then we pored through the FAQ and found that and everyone was happy again. :)
Two Words "Sovereign Glue"
No way.
Have you ever tried walking in fully articulated overlapping plates after dipping the assembly in soverein glue?
Preposterous!
Shine on, gleaming rangers!
"Shiny happy people holding hands
Shiny happy people laughing"
Two Words "Sovereign Glue"No way.
Have you ever tried walking in fully articulated overlapping plates after dipping the assembly in soverein glue?
Preposterous!
Shine on, gleaming rangers!
"Shiny happy people holding hands
Shiny happy people laughing"
Because wrapping the plates couldn't possibly achieve the same thing, and quiet the armor down some too.
Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Only now, the ranger in your game can burn a feat slot and be able to wear Mithral Full plate...(or take a level of Paladin or Fighter or any PrC that grants Heavy armor prof.
Unless Rangers have picked up Medium Armor proficiency, it would take two feats to accomplish this.
Unless Rangers have picked up Medium Armor proficiency, it would take two feats to accomplish this.Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Only now, the ranger in your game can burn a feat slot and be able to wear Mithral Full plate...(or take a level of Paladin or Fighter or any PrC that grants Heavy armor prof.
Wow, you're right!
It's been so long since I've seen anyone bold enough to play a ranger that I didn't know what they have or don't have. I just assumed they would get medium armor since they, you know, fight stuff.
Now I gotta go bury my head in molten lava. Oh the shame...
Hey, hey, hey!!! You wait for me to get off my hidding spot on the back of your head before you doing something like that. Bad Tarrasque! Bad!
Now I gotta go bury my head in molten lava. Oh the shame...
Too late. I already did it. An hour and 27 minutes before you jumped off. Check the logs.
Strange how this lava smells like barbecue...
While Barbarians only seem to loose Fast Movement when wearing heavy armor:
"This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor, and not carrying a heavy load.
Rangers suffer much more!
"The benefits of the ranger’s chosen style feats apply only
when he wears light or no armor. He loses all benefits of his
combat style feats when wearing medium or heavy armor."
Oh yeah, and evasion.
Bards suffer from spell failure.
I'm not sure what the wording was about mithral acting as a lighter armor, but if it isn't already "just for encumbrance" or something like that, it will be soon.
I would say that if you are rocking mithral plate as medium or breastplate as light, you should really enjoy it for the next 8 weeks!
Because wrapping the plates couldn't possibly achieve the same thing, and quiet the armor down some too.Two Words "Sovereign Glue"No way.
Have you ever tried walking in fully articulated overlapping plates after dipping the assembly in soverein glue?
Preposterous!
Shine on, gleaming rangers!
"Shiny happy people holding hands
Shiny happy people laughing"
OK now your just being difficult.... Like a GM that just dosn't like something for personal reasons that make no logical sense but wants to screw over the players trying it.
OK sovereign glue mixed with the paint, or other covering substance, should make it last for a while.
So just step down off your high horse.
Because wrapping the plates couldn't possibly achieve the same thing, and quiet the armor down some too.Two Words "Sovereign Glue"No way.
Have you ever tried walking in fully articulated overlapping plates after dipping the assembly in soverein glue?
Preposterous!
Shine on, gleaming rangers!
"Shiny happy people holding hands
Shiny happy people laughing"
OK now your just being difficult.... Like a GM that just dosn't like something for personal reasons that make no logical sense but wants to screw over the players trying it.
OK sovereign glue mixed with the paint, or other covering substance, should make it last for a while.
So just step down off your high horse.
Wrap yourself in an elven cloak and be done with it.
Shining happy rangers .....sorry just got that song in my head now.
Unless Rangers have picked up Medium Armor proficiency, it would take two feats to accomplish this.Right, Ranger in my game is actually worried about losing Mithril Breastplate.Only now, the ranger in your game can burn a feat slot and be able to wear Mithral Full plate...(or take a level of Paladin or Fighter or any PrC that grants Heavy armor prof.
Rangers gain Medium Armor Proficiency in the final game, per Jason...
Source please, as last I checked the rules said bonuses of different types stack, while bonuses of the same type do not.Umm, no. Enhancement bonuses apply only to the object they are on, not a different one; so that's a +9 armor plus enhancement bonus from the chain shirt (+10 for a full chain mail) OR the +8 armor bonus from the bracers, NOT +8 armor bonus from the bracers plus +5 enhancement bonus from the chain shirt. Allowing the enhancement bonus from enchanted armor to add on to bracers of armor is abusing the rules (as much as fighting with two weapons and claiming the higher enhancement bonus on both).If you want really high AC get yourself some celestial chain shirt +1 and bracers of armor 8.Are you talking about the celestial armor in the SRD?
Because if you are, a +1 chan shirt doesn't stack with +8 bracers of armor - you still only wind up with a +8 armor bonus.
Or is there some other version of celestial armor I don't know about that somehow lets them stack?
Or did you mean "or" where you wrote "and"?
Sorry I meant +5 celestial chain shirt
That way you get a 8 Armor, probably 9 now with the new rules, and +5 enhancement bonus, which does stack with the armor bonus.
O.o I cannot believe one of my own players does not know better than this. ::facepalm::
A way to think of enchanted items (base armor/shield/whatever bonus plus the additional +X enhancement bonus) is as "enhanced armor/shield/whatever bonus". A +5 chain shirt has an enhanced armor bonus of +9, or a +5 large shield has an enhanced shield bonus of +7. The chain shirt provides an armor bonus greater than the normal due to the powerful magical enhancement, the same for the shield. The chain shirt's bonus is still an armor bonus, the same as bracers of armor +X.
This of course is a bit misleading, as both armor and shield bonuses can additionally have a "force effect subtype" due to spells and magic items, such as the aforementioned bracers and similar magical effects due to the mage armor and shield spells.
Another, simpler way is this : An enhancement bonus is strictly applicable to the item that is enhanced. So a +X enhancement bonus only enhances the armor bonus of the item it is applied to, not to your AC in general. (Otherwise, by that logic, one would not be able to use both +5 armor and a +5 shield at all - which is decidedly not the case!)
EDIT: I see you already saw the clarification above, sorry about that.
Because wrapping the plates couldn't possibly achieve the same thing, and quiet the armor down some too.Two Words "Sovereign Glue"No way.
Have you ever tried walking in fully articulated overlapping plates after dipping the assembly in soverein glue?
Preposterous!
Shine on, gleaming rangers!
"Shiny happy people holding hands
Shiny happy people laughing"
OK now your just being difficult.... Like a GM that just dosn't like something for personal reasons that make no logical sense but wants to screw over the players trying it.
OK sovereign glue mixed with the paint, or other covering substance, should make it last for a while.
So just step down off your high horse.
(A) There's no way you could get armor on after it's been dipped in sovereign glue - all the pieces are now permanently adhered to each other.
(B) Tread carefully here grasshoppa Ineptus, I do see you in two days' time. One should not take offense so easily here when you seem to deal with it so well in real life.
(C) Now, the glue is unnecessary, since you can achieve the same or better effect with something along the lines of marvelous pigments - or just good old fashioned non-dispellable paint - and not run the risk of losing your camouflage with an ill-timed bath in universal solvent or perhaps a vat of wine or other substance hostile to the glue coating the immovable suit of armor. Keep it simple, remember?
Heh good I have always house ruled it this way anyhow. It was kinda silly any other way
O.o I cannot believe one of my own players does not know better than this. ::facepalm::A way to think of enchanted items (base armor/shield/whatever bonus plus the additional +X enhancement bonus) is as "enhanced armor/shield/whatever bonus". A +5 chain shirt has an enhanced armor bonus of +9, or a +5 large shield has an enhanced shield bonus of +7. The chain shirt provides an armor bonus greater than the normal due to the powerful magical enhancement, the same for the shield. The chain shirt's bonus is still an armor bonus, the same as bracers of armor +X.
Obviously you missed the discussion thread with the argument over whether you could or could not enchant bracers of armor to give them an enhancement bonus to their armor rating. :)
Not sure it is applicable here since it is 3.5 rules but, in the Magic Item Compendium pg6 it does state officially that mithril armor is treated as a weight category lower for "purpose of movement, proficiency, and other limitations". We always house ruled it also.
By the time MIC 3.5 was dead anyway. And given that MIC was a crap chute the point is rendered moot. Up until that point it had always been that it did not effect proficiency.
As for the conundrum of dechroming mithril armour just apply the shadow property. problem solved. Or if it is of a light enough category, wear it under your clothes.