The BBC reports that, amusingly, Ahmadinejad won strongly even in Moussavi's heartlands. Pretty much the equivalent of Obama winning by a huge majority in Texas.
As one might imagine, there is a great amount of scepticism in Iran towards these results.
There are no international election monitors....
Mousavi says people in his headquarters were beaten.
Go figure.
I got to hand it to >some< of the Iranian people, they stir up the s#++ when they get f#+@ed over. Gotta admire that.
Also, Mousavi was not thrown in the slammer or otherwise 'disappeared'.
Good news.
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The BBC reports that, amusingly, Ahmadinejad won strongly even in Moussavi's heartlands. Pretty much the equivalent of Obama winning by a huge majority in Texas.
As one might imagine, there is a great amount of scepticism in Iran towards these results.
There are no international election monitors....
Mousavi says people in his headquarters were beaten.
Go figure.
I got to hand it to >some< of the Iranian people, they stir up the s!#@ when they get f#%~ed over. Gotta admire that.
Also, Mousavi was not thrown in the slammer or otherwise 'disappeared'.
Good news.
Well, Iran has issues, but, for the most part, they aren't completely insane in internal affairs (unless you happen to be gay or a reporter).
Zimbabwe Iran is not.
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The BBC reports that, amusingly, Ahmadinejad won strongly even in Moussavi's heartlands. Pretty much the equivalent of Obama winning by a huge majority in Texas.
As one might imagine, there is a great amount of scepticism in Iran towards these results.
There are no international election monitors....
Mousavi says people in his headquarters were beaten.
Go figure.
I got to hand it to >some< of the Iranian people, they stir up the s!%& when they get f#@~ed over. Gotta admire that.
Also, Mousavi was not thrown in the slammer or otherwise 'disappeared'.
Good news.
Don't speak too soon. A number of Iranian opposition leaders are being arrested.
Yah. F#**.
Read a little about their government.
I've got to admit, I like the title 'Supreme Leader'.
Has a nice ring to it.
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There are no international election monitors....The BBC reports that, amusingly, Ahmadinejad won strongly even in Moussavi's heartlands. Pretty much the equivalent of Obama winning by a huge majority in Texas.
As one might imagine, there is a great amount of scepticism in Iran towards these results.
I dont recall anyone demanding the presence of international election monitors when US elections come around - or are we all trusting computer polling run by private companies in the interest of the most viable outcome?
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Yah. f%*@.
Read a little about their government.
I've got to admit, I like the title 'Supreme Leader'.
Has a nice ring to it.
That so cool:
BEST DICTATOR TITLE?
[ ]SUPREME LEADER
[ ]LORD HIGH DOMINAR
[ ]SUPREME CHANCELLOR
[ ]SUPREME WARLORD
[ ]SUPREME OVERLORD
[ ]TYRANNUS REX
[ ]LORD EMPEROR
[ ]EL PRESIDENT
[ ]SUPREME DICTATOR
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I have to go with Supreme Leader. It has a sound that you are in charge, but not necessarily going to destroy your people.
The exact title for Redcloak when he leads the hobgoblins. Supreme Leader!
Maybe it's time for me to reissue the following statement:
I, Mairkurion,
am available and willing to fill any of the following positions:
Emperor of China
Tsar of All Slavs
Holy Roman Emperor
Other monarchic positions are welcome to inquire. Will take best offer. Will also entertain combined offices. Willing to start on short notice.
Well, I'd like to inform everyone that I declare myself Supreme Leader of the planet Earth. I'm having a plaque made for my office door.
Also, as a nod to more popular forms of governing I shall allow my concubines to be democratically elected by males between the ages of 20 and 30.
Your populism is pitifully minimalistic. I'm willing to ascend to my throne(s) based solely on acclamation. Now, back to practicing my back-handed wave.
Also, as a nod to more popular forms of governing I shall allow my concubines to be democratically elected by males between the ages of 20 and 30.
Homosexual males? You have obviously never been screwed over by a devious GM when using a Wish.
It makes me laugh when Americans (houstonderek) talk about how dangerous it is for other countries to have nukes like they might just off and drop one - I mean who has used nukes other than you guys?
Iran has genuine justification to have nukes as a balance. Israel has them.
As has been implied, they aren't even 5% as whacko as North Korea. That's where I put my worries.
Also, let's remember that we are talking about a democracy here. Their democracy is in the hands of the mullahs, America's is in the hands of big money. Fun fun fun.
Democracy in the hands of a Theocracy is a still a church state. I believe Europe had that for 1800+ years. And then again, you don't see anyonein the U.S. worshipping the dollar....
...oh wait a minute. Bankers and lawyers.
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It makes me laugh when Americans (houstonderek) talk about how dangerous it is for other countries to have nukes like they might just off and drop one - I mean who has used nukes other than you guys?
Iran has genuine justification to have nukes as a balance. Israel has them.
As has been implied, they aren't even 5% as whacko as North Korea. That's where I put my worries.
Also, let's remember that we are talking about a democracy here. Their democracy is in the hands of the mullahs, America's is in the hands of big money. Fun fun fun.
Democracy in the hands of a Theocracy is a still a church state. I believe Europe had that for 1800+ years. And then again, you don't see anyonein the U.S. worshipping the dollar....
...oh wait a minute. Bankers and lawyers.
Democracy in the hands of a Theocracy is the Vatican.
According to our local newspaper, Moussawi might even go for a confrontation with the mullahs, as they have stated that everyone should support the president and do nothing to diminish the sweet triumph.
Moussawi still fights against the results, and the violent reaction of the revolutionary guard against the protesters shows that something is amiss. I would not be surprised to hear that Moussawis supporters disappear - the mullahs are not so stupid as to have Moussawi himself disappear, as he is in the focus of the international news at the moment.
I just don´t believe that this was a real election. I think the results are heavily rigged, as the youths, the women and the urban society supports the moderate politics of Moussawi - and this makes for a huge part of the populace. This might be obvious, but we have no evidence that the results are rigged, so I mark this as my opinion, not facts. (Ahmadinechad gaining 57% in Tabris, Moussawis birhtplace, is marked by Al-Jazeera as unlikely, though.)
On a completely different field, Netanjahu has basically declared that a sovereign Palestinian state is possible - I hope this is getting somewhere. Lebanon had the election recently, and the moderate forces won. So, there are some positive signs in the near east.
Stefan
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According to our local newspaper, Moussawi might even go for a confrontation with the mullahs, as they have stated that everyone should support the president and do nothing to diminish the sweet triumph.
Moussawi still fights against the results, and the violent reaction of the revolutionary guard against the protesters shows that something is amiss. I would not be surprised to hear that Moussawis supporters disappear - the mullahs are not so stupid as to have Moussawi himself disappear, as he is in the focus of the international news at the moment.
I just don´t believe that this was a real election. I think the results are heavily rigged, as the youths, the women and the urban society supports the moderate politics of Moussawi - and this makes for a huge part of the populace. This might be obvious, but we have no evidence that the results are rigged, so I mark this as my opinion, not facts. (Ahmadinechad gaining 57% in Tabris, Moussawis birhtplace, is marked by Al-Jazeera as unlikely, though.)
On a completely different field, Netanjahu has basically declared that a sovereign Palestinian state is possible - I hope this is getting somewhere. Lebanon had the election recently, and the moderate forces won. So, there are some positive signs in the near east.
Stefan
Good thing the election was still won by a 'majority' vote.
Also, as a nod to more popular forms of governing I shall allow my concubines to be democratically elected by males between the ages of 20 and 30.Homosexual males? You have obviously never been screwed over by a devious GM when using a Wish.
Smegma crazies to the left! The gate! Gayboy berserkers, to the gate!
Hey, I trust my gay friends to pick out the hottest babes for my harem.
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And then again, you don't see anyonein the U.S. worshipping the dollar....
...oh wait a minute. Bankers and lawyers.
Also the Prosperity Gospel churches, which have turned organized religion into a pyramid scheme / Amway distribution model.
And then there's Wall Street, which conspicuously worships a modern day 'golden calf' as symbol of the much beloved bull market.
Mammon has his faithful flock.
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Damn, just heard on NPR that he lost by landslide, and there's no reason to doubt it. So much for revivified relations!
Another report, from the head of the vote-counting organization said that he watched the official reports of A-Mad's win with disbelief, since *his people hadn't started counting yet!* (all the votes weren't even at the Ministry when the tally was announced, and some of his people had been locked out of the building by the Revotionary Guard)
Supreme Leader calls for investigation, which, if it's anything like an 'investigation' in this country, will quickly and unilaterally crush any evidence of foul-play and uphold what the Supreme Leader wanted anyway.What I am affraid of.
Don't be too sure. The main thing that the Supreme Leader does not want is massive civil unrest. What is more likely to happen is that the investigation will be started, drag on for quite some time, and then release its findings after no-one cares anymore.
(Unless the council later decided that it wants to get rid of the Ahmadinejad for some reason, then they have the perfect tool in their hands.)
Considering the Mullahs have had to reign in Ahmadinejad a few times, I figured they would want Moussavi in. No, civil unrest is not good for anyone. I believe they may have launched the investigation to quell the unrest and once things settle down they can declare no wrong doing was uncovered.
...links to various news items
Thanks for the news. One can only hope that there won´t be major bloodshed in Iran right now - the situation might even escalate into a civil war if not handled with measured steps.
Stefan
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Only the inner most circle of priests get to vote on who the new pope is - and its a job for life.Democracy in the hands of a Theocracy is the Vatican.That makes no sense.
The pope is the spiritual leader of the Church, not a country.
If you are trying to refer to Vatican City, there is no population to govern or vote. Most of the 1000 people within the walls do not live on the 100 acre "country" and the rest are priests or security. The papal government is closer to a monarchy.
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Only the inner most circle of priests get to vote on who the new pope is - and its a job for life.Democracy in the hands of a Theocracy is the Vatican.That makes no sense.The pope is the spiritual leader of the Church, not a country.
If you are trying to refer to Vatican City, there is no population to govern or vote. Most of the 1000 people within the walls do not live on the 100 acre "country" and the rest are priests or security. The papal government is closer to a monarchy.
UN recognises it as a State under International Law and the Pope is its 'leader for life'.
Considering the Mullahs have had to reign in Ahmadinejad a few times, I figured they would want Moussavi in. No, civil unrest is not good for anyone. I believe they may have launched the investigation to quell the unrest and once things settle down they can declare no wrong doing was uncovered.
I agree, that is the most likely outcome ... unless they decide that they would like to get rid of Ahmadinejad.
Wildly speculating here, but assuming the elections were rigged and Ahmadinejad won, I am guessing the Mullahs were not as fed up with his antics as I thought they were. Therefore, I am guessing the investigations will not turn up anything substantial.
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Politics in the Vatican City are more complex then yellowdingo makes them out to be. While it is true that legally the Pope is the titular head of the country, he generally delegates the duties of running Vatican City to others. With an estimated population of 826 people, 80% of whom are Catholic clergy, and only 43 people having no listed religious affiliation, it is clear that being a theocratic monarchy doesn't bother anyone there. Also, for the official record it is the Holy See, not Vatican City, that has a seat in the U.N. They are in fact two totally different things.
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Wildly speculating here, but assuming the elections were rigged and Ahmadinejad won, I am guessing the Mullahs were not as fed up with his antics as I thought they were. Therefore, I am guessing the investigations will not turn up anything substantial.
Unless they decide to through Ahmadinejad under the bus and try and win popular support by declaring that the election was rigged, by Ahmadinejad, and that they have fixed the situation and placed the rightful ruler on the throne. Then the Mullahs seem to be on the side of the people and they get to be the power behind the throne as well.
What?! You mean to say yellowdingo has not been completely honest with us and may have oversimplified the facts?
and only 43 people having no listed religious affiliation
Does not make anything clear other than 43 people have no listed religious affiliation. Maybe they just have not gotten around to filling out the census form. Maybe they are terribly repressed and live in fear. Don't yellowdingo your own post.
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What?! You mean to say yellowdingo has not been completely honest with us and may have oversimplified the facts?
and only 43 people having no listed religious affiliation
Does not make anything clear other than 43 people have no listed religious affiliation. Maybe they just have not gotten around to filling out the census form. Maybe they are terribly repressed and live in fear. Don't yellowdingo your own post.
Actually, it's because they work in positions that don't require them to be Catholic. It's not very likely that they are not Catholic, they just don't have to be for their job.
From the daily news in our german TV come pictures from Tehran, showing (according to the anchorman) hundreds of thousands of protesters. Obviously, amateur videos of protests and violent attempts to quench them are being uploaded to youtube, despite attempts by the regime to stop that, and despite the possible punishments for this. Hopefully, there is a peaceful way to get out of that position. The latest number I hear is one million protesters in Tehran today. Ending the protests by force would probably result in a civil war. Moussawi is the main focal point for the protesters, as he seems to be a man who is a good compromise candidate for many people there.
As a foot note, the freedom of the media is heavily curtailed now. TV reporters are not allowed to leave their offices.
Stefan
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...Cartoons funded by the UN and Iran.I'm curious about this. Could you give a little more explanation please?He is refrencing these programs:
Very interesting.
First, anyone here speak Arabic? Can you confirm the translations that are superimposed in the videos?
Second, What was the name of the show so that I can follow up and confirm that the UN does in fact fund it?
Yah. f%*@.
Read a little about their government.
I've got to admit, I like the title 'Supreme Leader'.
Has a nice ring to it.
That so cool:
BEST DICTATOR TITLE?
[ ]SUPREME LEADER
[ ]LORD HIGH DOMINAR
[ ]SUPREME CHANCELLOR
[ ]SUPREME WARLORD
[ ]SUPREME OVERLORD
[ ]TYRANNUS REX
[ ]LORD EMPEROR
[ ]EL PRESIDENT
[ ]SUPREME DICTATOR
[x]Darth Tyrannus
[ ]CEO[ ]President
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Unless they decide to throw Ahmadinejad under the bus and try and win popular support by declaring that the election was rigged, by Ahmadinejad, and that they have fixed the situation and placed the rightful ruler on the throne. Then the Mullahs seem to be on the side of the people and they get to be the power behind the throne as well.
I'm not convinced that the 'Supreme Leader' is that clever. He's got a tiger by the tail with the thousands, if not million or more, protestors, and Ranfsanjsani (sp?) is currently talking with the other members of the Expediency Council to see if the Ayatollah can be relieved of his station (apparently there is a provision for that!). I can't imagine that succeeding (no matter what the Expediency Council votes, since I suspect that they'd all end up 'disappeared in the civil unrest' if they voted against the Supreme Leader).
Backing down isn't really in the Ayatollah's limited repertoire of reactions to stress. His primary response is more likely to be a grotesque and violent overreaction, similar to what is already happening with reports of live fire being authorized and Hezbollah militia men being called in because local police and even military units are refusing to fire on civilian protestors (unlike the Revolutionary Guard). If he throws A-Mad to the wolves, he's admitting defeat, something that I don't think he's capable of, since he's linked his own support of A-Mad with divine providence in several speeches, which means that he'd not only have to admit that he was wrong, but would have to suggest that *God* was wrong.
Too many powerful people have backed themselves into corners, and, I fear, will kill thousands to retain their desperate and increasingly shaky stranglehold on the reins of power. Democracy only works if the losers accept the results. Iran certainly isn't the only country where losers of a democratic election respond with violence, civil disobedience, etc.
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...Cartoons funded by the UN and Iran.I'm curious about this. Could you give a little more explanation please?He is refrencing these programs:
Very interesting.
First, anyone here speak Arabic? Can you confirm the translations that are superimposed in the videos?
Second, What was the name of the show so that I can follow up and confirm that the UN does in fact fund it?
The show is called Tomorrow's Pioneers. I could not any clarification about it being U.N. funded, but I did run it past an associate who is an expert on the Middle east and he confirmed that the network is partially funded by money given to the Palestenian Authority by the United Nations. I also ran it past another associate who speaks Arabic and is from Palestine and he confirmed that the translation is mostly correct. He went on to explain that he meant that some of the words do not translate directly from Arabic to English, so the translation had to make do with aproximations.
First, anyone here speak Arabic? Can you confirm the translations that are superimposed in the videos?
I can follow along with it, since it is in Modern Standard Arabic or 'foosha'. It follows the translation pretty closely, although there is a little flavor lost in the translation.
As for UN involvement, I don't know. I would assume that the UN doesn't directly fund this show, but might give out grants to Palestinian television broadcasting.
Either way, the programs are horrid filth, guaranteed to keep the hate burning for generations out there.
Infidels are part of a balanced diet.
I'm not convinced that the 'Supreme Leader' is that clever. He's got a tiger by the tail with the thousands, if not million or more, protestors, and Ranfsanjsani (sp?) is currently talking with the other members of the Expediency Council to see if the Ayatollah can be relieved of his station (apparently there is a provision for that!). I can't imagine that succeeding (no matter what the Expediency Council votes, since I suspect that they'd all end up 'disappeared in the civil unrest' if they voted against the Supreme Leader).
Backing down isn't really in the Ayatollah's limited repertoire of reactions to stress. His primary response is more likely to be a grotesque and violent overreaction, similar to what is already happening with reports of live fire being authorized and Hezbollah militia men being called in because local police and even military units are refusing to fire on civilian protestors (unlike the Revolutionary Guard). If he throws A-Mad to the wolves, he's admitting defeat, something that I don't think he's capable of, since he's linked his own support of A-Mad with divine providence in several speeches, which means that he'd not only have to admit that he was wrong, but would have to suggest that *God* was wrong.
Too many powerful people have backed themselves into corners, and, I fear, will kill thousands to retain their desperate and increasingly shaky stranglehold on the reins of power. Democracy only works if the losers accept the results. Iran certainly isn't the only country where losers of a democratic election respond with violence, civil disobedience, etc.
Actually, I think that the losers would have accepted the results if the government had made more of an effort to be transparent about the process - including not going to such efforts to strangle communication.
But currently, the Mullahs are likely to - successfully - hold onto power through sheer violence.
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Actually, I think that the losers would have accepted the results if the government had made more of an effort to be transparent about the process - including not going to such efforts to strangle communication.
There's been speculation that A-Mad *might* have actually won a majority (and been put in a position of having to run off against Mousavi), but there was a panic and a desire to have him appear to have crushed the opposition, as sort of a 'mandate' to his backers regime.
But currently, the Mullahs are likely to - successfully - hold onto power through sheer violence.
Yeah, this remains an unpleasant probability. (Although more and more of the Council of Experts seem to be speaking out against the Supreme Leader's stance, which really seems like a terribly unhealthy and dangerous thing to do, since he's got his own private army, and the support of Hezbollah fighters, according to the local reports from Iran.)
Stalling tactics like recounts and council meetings and 'investigations' could just suck the momentum out of the movement, and the whole thing be pushed off until the next election, which will, no doubt, be *far* more draconian and controlled and restricted.
The Tienanmen Square protests lasted *seven weeks* before the tanks rolled in, so the fat lady, she's not only not sung yet, she's still backstage trying to squeeze into her dress.
The globalism of the thing is pretty surprising as well. An Iranian-American who has been blogging about the affair had his address leaked and a small group of Iranian-Americans who were pro-Amad tracked him down and threw rocks at him *here in America.*
The investment here in what goes on there is interesting. Mousavi is not the nicest man in the world, and neither is Rafsanjani (sp?), the dude trying to oust the Supreme Leader. Neither are the raving nutjob Holocaust-denier misogynist that Amad seems to be (or at least plays on TV, much like American politicians who pander to their base on the television, and then vote for whatever they were gonna vote for anyway), so Mousavi (or Karroub?) would be a huge step up *for American interests,* but who knows how much better off the average man on the street in Iran would be.
Oh yeah, and my title;
[X] Grand High Imperial Poo-bah
[ ] President-for-Life (yeah, why not advertise that they need to kill you!)
[ ] High Priest of Set (never turn into a giant snake. It never helps.)
[ ] Admiral Neider (pease don't promote me, Lord Vader!)