| The Black Bard |
Dragons are not flamethrowers. Dragons are people with very long flexible arms holding flamethrowers. Can you light yourself on fire with a flamethrower? Yes, yes you can.
A wizard can technically cast a lightnight bolt through himself. Suprises the crap out of the enemy too (although hopefully you have protection from electricity up). A breath weapon extends from the corner of any square making up the creature's space (usually the outside edges, but it could be an inner corner on a bigger creature). It then extends in the direction aimed until it reaches its limits or is stopped by solid barriers (which some can destroy and continue on through).
If it so chooses, the breathing creature can include itself in the area, and as such deals with all the consequences. Dragonborn have to make saves because they are not immune to their own breath. Most true dragons (but not all) are immune to the damage their breath deals, and so can "ignore" the reflex save. Secondary effects like entangling breath, or the non-damage of metallic dragon gasses could be dangerous for the breathing dragon (I've had a metallic be taken out of the sky when a quick thinking sorceror used gust of wind to blow his breath back at him).
Since Dragotha is undead, and as such heals from negative energy, then yes, his death wind can heal him, and he's a retard for not using it in exactly that manner. Technically, even if he just rears up and holds his claws in front of his mouth, catching just the tips, he still gets the full benefits of "being exposed" to it.
| The Black Bard |
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I don't know about intent, the SRD entry on breath weapon is that it is just "something the creature expells from its mouth rather than casting a spell". In the cases of any creature larger than, well, large, the "user's" head is something that could exist in any of the squares it takes up. Technically, a huge bipedal creature (half-dragon storm giant) has its head in the middle square of the 9 it takes up, and thus its breath weapon theoretically would pass through its other squares.
Problems arise if we read the section on magic, specifically resolving area of effect spells, too literally. Most of the SRD is the PHB, and is written from the point of view of a PC. In the area section on magic, it cites that cones and lines start from a "corner of your square". A literally interpretation of this is that a collosal dragon can still only fire its breath weapon from one of the four corners of its collosal square. Clearly, this is not the intent.
I prefer to use common sense. A breath weapon comes directly from your mouth. Can you spit on yourself? Of course you can. If you could breath fire and not be harmed by it, and a swarm of ants crawled out of the ground to swarm up your legs, wouldn't you breath on your own legs to kill them? Wouldn't you grab the little adventurer poking you with a sword to hold him still, then roast him alive since your hand won't be harmed?
I can see that it may be hard to cast burning hands through my own square, since the description is that a wave of flame jets out from my fingertips. But again, if I'm getting munched by a swarm of army ants, I may take my chances with my own fire and brush it over my legs.
| concerro |
I don't know about intent, the SRD entry on breath weapon is that it is just "something the creature expells from its mouth rather than casting a spell". In the cases of any creature larger than, well, large, the "user's" head is something that could exist in any of the squares it takes up. Technically, a huge bipedal creature (half-dragon storm giant) has its head in the middle square of the 9 it takes up, and thus its breath weapon theoretically would pass through its other squares.
Problems arise if we read the section on magic, specifically resolving area of effect spells, too literally. Most of the SRD is the PHB, and is written from the point of view of a PC. In the area section on magic, it cites that cones and lines start from a "corner of your square". A literally interpretation of this is that a collosal dragon can still only fire its breath weapon from one of the four corners of its collosal square. Clearly, this is not the intent.
I prefer to use common sense. A breath weapon comes directly from your mouth. Can you spit on yourself? Of course you can. If you could breath fire and not be harmed by it, and a swarm of ants crawled out of the ground to swarm up your legs, wouldn't you breath on your own legs to kill them? Wouldn't you grab the little adventurer poking you with a sword to hold him still, then roast him alive since your hand won't be harmed?
I can see that it may be hard to cast burning hands through my own square, since the description is that a wave of flame jets out from my fingertips. But again, if I'm getting munched by a swarm of army ants, I may take my chances with my own fire and brush it over my legs.
What works IRL as common sense and what works in a D&D dont always go together. I would figure if he is going to breathe on himself then the breath weapon can't fan out. As a PC I would not mind. This just gives me time to heal up, and the party should be able to drop 220 hp in round at 20th level without to much trouble in case they are in good enough shape to not be healed.
carborundum
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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I'd totally let him do it. Dragons toasting adventurers and not burning their hands is a classic enough example to win over my players.
"He blasts you again with his cold, dark, soul-destroying breath weapon. Through half-closed eyes you see him trailing a claw through the edge of the cone. Negative energy flows through his own body too, and his damaged bones and sinews knot back together as yours are rotted away."
| drsparnum |
Well the way it will probably go in my game is:
1. Everyone (or almost everyone) will recieve a deathward spell.
2. According to my reading of death ward this will negate all of the effects of the negative energy breath.
3. On rd 2, after Dragotha has taken some dmg, he will breath on the party.
4. The breath will actually deal no dmg, but at least Dragotha will heal some so the action isn't a total loss (although it will still be a net loss, since my players will probably do more dmg to him that round than he heals from the breath).
| Crust |
My PCs just destroyed Dragotha's phylactery, so the battle with the dracolich is right around the corner. I will definitely allow Dragotha to use his death wind breath to heal himself. Any PCs engaged in melee with Dragotha will have to save. Add the maximize breath feat from Draconomicon (recover breath won't hurt, either), and that changes things a bit.
Really, I also expect my entire party to be cloaked in death ward. It's a dracolich, after all, death wind breath or no. I'm also giving Dragotha the opportunity to teleport near the party for a strafing run with the death wind attack (maximized, of course). Any PCs without death ward will most-likely die and rise as wraiths (should be shocking enough), and then it will be abundantly clear that death ward is a must, rendering the death win useless.
Heck, they'll be protected from fire as well, and that's why I'll do my best to include Mahuudril, Venk, AND Brazzemal in that epic battle.
| Majuba |
Under the SRD entry for dragons, it says "A blast from a breath weapon always starts at any intersection adjacent to the dragon and extends in a direction of the dragon’s choice, with an area as noted on the table below."
Even given that, it seems reasonable to allow this *if* the range/angle is adjusted to include the body of the dragon (breathing back over his shoulder, or starting within his square). I wouldn't allow a normal range breath over the party, just holding a claw out in front.
| concerro |
My PCs just destroyed Dragotha's phylactery, so the battle with the dracolich is right around the corner. I will definitely allow Dragotha to use his death wind breath to heal himself. Any PCs engaged in melee with Dragotha will have to save. Add the maximize breath feat from Draconomicon (recover breath won't hurt, either), and that changes things a bit.
Really, I also expect my entire party to be cloaked in death ward. It's a dracolich, after all, death wind breath or no. I'm also giving Dragotha the opportunity to teleport near the party for a strafing run with the death wind attack (maximized, of course). Any PCs without death ward will most-likely die and rise as wraiths (should be shocking enough), and then it will be abundantly clear that death ward is a must, rendering the death win useless.
Heck, they'll be protected from fire as well, and that's why I'll do my best to include Mahuudril, Venk, AND Brazzemal in that epic battle.
Just throw a couple of shadesteel golems(MM3) in there so he gets doesn't even have to waste the action. :)
| drsparnum |
I can't use Brazzemal because my party killed him (along with Venk). Vermirox and Xyzanth got away though, so I could add one of them to the room, and while they tangled with Mahuudril last session she also got away. A couple of shadesteel golems also seem advisable.
I'll see how many of my players actually make it. I have 6 PCs, 3 of those PCs have a cohort or animal companion, and they picked up an apocolypse golem from Zulshyn last session. So they have 10 "things" when everyone comes.
Too tough?
Dragotha
Xyzanth (or whatever the fang dragon's name was)
Mahuudril
1 Deathgiant (MM3 p55)
3 Shadesteel golems
I got the 4th edition Death Titan mini, which essentially looks the same as a Death Giant, so I want to use it.
I've also toyed with adding a super umberhulk because I got that huge silver umberhulk mini that came out recently, and I think it looks cool. But since walking through the walls isn't a good option for the party in the tabernacle, it doesn't seem like I need it as much.
| The Black Bard |
I always rebuild "boss" monsters to take into account the splatbooks I let my players have access to. As a result, their recent encounter with the Doppleganger boss in Hall of Harsh Reflection was quite impressive, and a PC died. A +19/+15 full attack for 1d12+11 while toting an AC of 30 while raging sure made them take notice.
Dragotha is no fool, and he knows the PCs aren't by this point (either that, or they are just ridiculously lucky to survive this far). He should have the casting capability for a quickened dispel magic, possibly even a greater dispel. Toss that out right before the deathwind (or memorize it twice and use one in the first round to get them panicking, then the next and deathwind in round two), and the odds of destroying at least one of these uppity heroes should rise dramatically. Also, if he doesn't have arcane sight running, he should. His intelligence and spellcraft should be high enough to basically understand what magic (spells and items) the PCs has as he sees them.
He's the undead dragon. He technically predates dracoliches. He should not be a pansy. He should not be anything less than the hardest fight they ever have. Kyuss should almost be a releif after him.