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I am likely to get PF RPG when it comes out as my mates are all converting and I do like some aspects of it (whilst disliking others).
But although I run PFS scenarios, and play in PF APs, I don't plan to buy into the Golarion setting (as it will be covered in both 3.5 and PF RPG books, and spread across Companions and CHronicle books etc). So what non-Golarion books are we likely to see one PF RPG is released?
Will there be PF RPG books devoted to setting independent fluff and / or rules crunch?
The reason I ask is I have the chance to buy the 3.5 Complete books, but if PF RPG will have something similar I will pass on them.
Cheers!
Considering that Erik Mona has stated (in another thread) that he's "tired of prestige classes", I doubt there'll be a comparable substitute for the Complete books (which have a large chunk devoted to prestige classes) coming in the near future.
Check out this list of publishers that will be using the PFRPG rules in a non-Golarion setting.
(as it will be covered in both 3.5 and PF RPG books, and spread across Companions and CHronicle books etc).
A couple of notes about this:
3.5 and PFRPG will be compatible to each other, so it's not that big a deal that some of the Golarion crunch will be in the old game system, while other crunch will be in the new one. Plus, Golarion books are rather low on crunch, anyway.
While it is true that in order to get every piece of information about Golarion, you need Chronicles, Companions, even Adventure Paths and Modules, not all of that is necessary to use the world. You can get just the Campaign Setting (or even just the Gazetteer) and go with that. It's a good overview on the setting, its nations, its pecularities, its cosmology, and its gods and philosophies.
So what non-Golarion books are we likely to see one PF RPG is released?Will there be PF RPG books devoted to setting independent fluff and / or rules crunch?
PF RPG is not tied to Golarion. It's likely that most, if not all, of the books in the RPG line will be general. Like with general 3e books, Golarion information might be used as needed (like the core books will have a list of Golarion's main gods as a sample pantheon), but the books will be written so they can be used in any setting.
I guess those books will be mostly crunch, leaving the fluff to setting books. There will be advise and such, that's for sure, but not much information about any specific world (beyond what they'll be using as examples)
The reason I ask is I have the chance to buy the 3.5 Complete books, but if PF RPG will have something similar I will pass on them.
Don't think so.
CEO
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So what non-Golarion books are we likely to see one PF RPG is released?
Will there be PF RPG books devoted to setting independent fluff and / or rules crunch?
All of our rulebooks will be very, very Golarion-lite. In the core rulebook, the only real Golarion content is the base gods list. We feel that the rulebooks should be able to be used in any campaign, not just Golarion. So you should be able to find enough non-Golarion specific products to satisfy your crunch craving.
-Lisa
Check out this list of publishers that will be using the PFRPG rules in a non-Golarion setting.
Sweet!!! Thanks for the info Lilith!
Edit - HOLY CRAP!!!
Necromancer Games, Inc.
www.necromancergames.com
Tome of Horrors: Pathfinder Edition
I repeat!!! HOLY CRAP!!!
Tome of Horrors: Pathfinder Edition
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My personal opinion is I could have easily done without the Complete X series. There is a handful of useful things in them but not nearly worth the price.
Instead consider some of the Compendiums WOTC put out just before going to 4E.
The Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium are two of the best darn books released by WOTC. They should be a first on your list of books to get. Then if you still want a great book, check out Unearthed Arcana.
UA is a rules variants book, offering a slew of different ways to do things. With UA alone you can create a wicked collection of classes, prestige classes and just about anything else you want.
After you have those three books, consider the environmental books, Frostburn etc. These allow great customization of you game based upon the environment it is set in.
Lastly, I would consider the Complete X series. These books could easily have been condensed into 1/4 the space and price by eliminating the scores of pages of rambling garbage. Don't get me wrong they all have something useful, but for the price I would rather have the other books.
And yes, I have them all... a LOT of money spent. I don't even know where most of my Complete X books are, they get so little use. The Compendiums, UA, Environment books, oh and PHB and DMG 2 also get a lot of use. The Complete Series was overpriced for its content.
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3.5 and PFRPG will be compatible to each other, so it's not that big a deal that some of the Golarion crunch will be in the old game system, while other crunch will be in the new one. Plus, Golarion books are rather low on crunch, anyway.
Yeah, unfortunately its something that just niggles me - the same thing with using Star Wars d20 OCR supplements with RCR etc. I will probably end up mixing and matching, but ideally I would like the Golarion Campaiugn Setting updated to PF RPG rules before buying it.
While it is true that in order to get every piece of information about Golarion, you need Chronicles, Companions, even Adventure Paths and Modules, not all of that is necessary to use the world. You can get just the Campaign Setting (or even just the Gazetteer) and go with that. It's a good overview on the setting, its nations, its pecularities, its cosmology, and its gods and philosophies.
I have the Gazateer, but am banned from the Campaign Setting as my GM is running the APs and wants to maintain some mystery. Which is cool.
But for a setting that I want to make my main one I run for, I like to be a completionist. I have bought the entire Eberron back catalog for 3.5 (damn annoyed I can't get the PDFs now though). SO Eberron will be my preferred setting to GM in.
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My personal opinion is I could have easily done without the Complete X series. There is a handful of useful things in them but not nearly worth the price.
I have decided to snag them anyway - without having to pay P&P (I am getting them off a mate) they are fairly cheap. I want them for the extra feats etc for customising my characters, also maybe for some prestige classes. They might not see much use but we will see.
The Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium are two of the best darn books released by WOTC. They should be a first on your list of books to get.
I considered the Magic Item COmpendium as it apparently has some nice low level utility items, but I am put off a little my books containing just long lists of one thing (be it spells, items etc). I like my books to have a variety of things in them. PLus I can alwasy buy the Compendiums later,
Then if you still want a great book, check out Unearthed Arcana.
I have it, both in hardcopy and PDF. Not read it all yet, but enough to know what rules I would like to use Flaws, Traits, Incantations, maybe Reserve Points etc. I wanted to use the rules to bring in some of the best of 4e into 3.5.
After you have those three books, consider the environmental books, Frostburn etc. These allow great customization of you game based upon the environment it is set in.
These don't really appeal to me, if there was one book that covered all environment types I might be persuaded, but one book just for cold environments? a bit OTT for me.
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and I fully expect Paizo to come out with their own versions of all of these books in time. If not I will be surprised and disappointed.
This is why I asked the question. Paizo books would be 100% compatible with PF RPG (rather than 90% compatible as 3.5 is), and Paizo also offer them in PDF (which WotC don't even do at all at the moment!)
Still, as long as I can put up with things not being 100% compatible I should still be able to use the Complete books in my mate's PF RPG games (and in my PF RPG games if I really decide to move over from 3.5).
Meanwhile, while I am more familiar with 3.5 I get 100% compatible stuff.
I will probably end up mixing and matching, but ideally I would like the Golarion Campaiugn Setting updated to PF RPG rules before buying it.
There isn't really that much stuff that would need a change. They might do the changes if they have a reprint, but there won't be a whole new book.
Or maybe an update manual.
I have the Gazateer, but am banned from the Campaign Setting as my GM is running the APs and wants to maintain some mystery. Which is cool.
The CS doesn't really contain any spoilers. Not much mystery to be spoiled by the CS.
But for a setting that I want to make my main one I run for, I like to be a completionist.
Same here. But what is the problem, really? They're releasing more information in books. That's not bad, is it?
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Same here. But what is the problem, really? They're releasing more information in books. That's not bad, is it?
But for a setting that I want to make my main one I run for, I like to be a completionist.
No, its just the information seems all over the place in terms of subscriptions. Some "place" books are in Companions (e.g. Osirion) whilst other "place" books are in Chronicales (e.g. Korvosa).
So I wouldn't want to subscribe, and that makes PDFs an extra.
Besides, I already have loads of Eberron stuff to read, and don't want to get into another sprawling campaign setting. With Eberron the 3.5 line came to an end and it was pretty complete - it covered all the world's continents and history.
I also like the 4e model of there being only a Campaign Guide, Players Guide and Scenario. In fact I had intended to buy the 4e Eberron stuff just for completeness until I realised I wouldn't be able to buy them in PDF.
I am not saying the way Paizo is handling the setting stuff is wrong - just not something that meshes with my preferences.
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From what I understand PFRPG is 100% compatable with OGL/3.5.
I am not sure I follow what you are not sure about DigitalMage.
Not 100%. There are differences. Mostly additions, true, but some changes as well, such as Domains (although that will become less of a change), feats, channel energy, polymorph. CMB is another big difference.
heh well it's 100% OGL at lest, as OGL covers anything and everything d20 from 3.0 to true 20 :)
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From what I understand PFRPG is 100% compatable with OGL/3.5.
I am not sure I follow what you are not sure about DigitalMage.
Yeah, it is not 100% compatible - skills have been condensed, skill ranks work differently, and spinning off from that some feats have changed as well (including the number you get).
It just means some judgement may be needed to port feats (and how their pre-requsites work) over to PF RPG from 3.5 - hopefully myself and the GM will come to the same conclusion as to how to convert, but if not, then that is where some difficulties could arise.
well any skill based prerequisite is at -3, if it was 8 it is now 5
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heh well it's 100% OGL at lest, as OGL covers anything and everything d20 from 3.0 to true 20 :)
Not that 100% OGL means much when comparing systems, I mean RuneQuest is now OGL :)
And being pedantic, I doubt PF RPG is 100% OGL as some of the content will be marked as Product Identity (deity names etc) :)
Oh I know PFRPG is not 100% with 3.5 how could it be? I am with you and think it'll be around 90%
not really, it it was an 8 before it is an 5 now, you can not double up on skill your max is rank= level so a 5 is 5th level. the +3 class skill does not count for requirements
In 3.5 8 ranks would have also been 5th level, but much higher for a cross skill. now cross skill is the same as class skill for rank requirements
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not really, it it was an 8 before it is an 5 now, you can not double up on skill your max is rank= level so a 5 is 5th level. the +3 class skill does not count for requirements
In 3.5 8 ranks would have also been 5th level, but much higher for a cross skill. now cross skill is the same as class skill for rank requirements
See, it is this sort of confusion that makes me not want to mix & match PF RPG & 3.5 and why I worry about compatibility issues.
Unless it has changed in the final version, the Beta rules are (albeit refering to Prestige Class pre-requisites rather than Feat pre-requisites):
Pathfinder Beta p52
Whenever a prestige class calls for a number of skill ranks, you can qualify for the prestige class if you meet that number of ranks –3 if you also have the skill as a class skill. If you do not have the skill as a class skill, you must possess double that number of ranks. For example, a 3.5 prestige class might require eight ranks in Move Silently. In the Pathfinder RPG, it instead requires five ranks of the Stealth skill if Stealth is one of your class skills and ten ranks if it is not.
I.e. if it was an 8 before, it is a 5 now if it is a class skill for you, if its not a class skill it is 10 now.
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not really, it it was an 8 before it is an 5 now, you can not double up on skill your max is rank= level so a 5 is 5th level. the +3 class skill does not count for requirements
In 3.5 8 ranks would have also been 5th level, but much higher for a cross skill. now cross skill is the same as class skill for rank requirements
See, it is this sort of confusion that makes me not want to mix & match PF RPG & 3.5 and why I worry about compatibility issues.
Unless it has changed in the final version, the Beta rules are (albeit refering to Prestige Class pre-requisites rather than Feat pre-requisites):
Pathfinder Beta p52
Whenever a prestige class calls for a number of skill ranks, you can qualify for the prestige class if you meet that number of ranks –3 if you also have the skill as a class skill. If you do not have the skill as a class skill, you must possess double that number of ranks. For example, a 3.5 prestige class might require eight ranks in Move Silently. In the Pathfinder RPG, it instead requires five ranks of the Stealth skill if Stealth is one of your class skills and ten ranks if it is not.I.e. if it was an 8 before, it is a 5 now if it is a class skill for you, if its not a class skill it is 10 now.
To be honest, that's one thing I've houseruled out. I can't see what it gains for the added complexity.
I doubt PF RPG is 100% OGL as some of the content will be marked as Product Identity (deity names etc) :)
Remove the etc and you have it. That's all there is in the book that's not open. Unless some other companies, Paizo lets us play with their toys.
No, its just the information seems all over the place in terms of subscriptions. Some "place" books are in Companions (e.g. Osirion) whilst other "place" books are in Chronicales (e.g. Korvosa).
I still fail to see the problem. If they called it all Chronicles, you wouldn't have that problem?
I personally think it's a great idea to have different books with different foci on the material and different target groups. What's not to like about that?
Besides, I already have loads of Eberron stuff to read, and don't want to get into another sprawling campaign setting.
Why don't you just say so in the first place: We'll accept your "I'd rather have Eberron because I already bought it."
I also like the 4e model of there being only a Campaign Guide, Players Guide and Scenario.
Well, you can have that now: Get the Campaign Setting and nothing else. No one will come to your house and hit you over the head if you put the wrong guy in charge of Korvosa's Academae, or don't have a Dogtown in Katapesh city, or if you don't say anything about Findeladlara, or.....
On the other hand, those of us who like getting more information in more books will be able to do so.
I liked that about the Realms before, but then wizards gave in to the whining of non-fans who were upset because they didn't get to know everything about the world without buying all the novels and sourcebooks (never you mind that you can have a perfectly nice game of FR without any of that).
And Golarion will be a lot less detailed than the FR were.
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Creative Director
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The PFRPG, while perfect to run Golarion-based games, will not assume Golarion. In fact, the ONLY real Golarion flavor in the PFRPG are the names of the 20 core deities. The same goes for the Pathfinder Bestiary.
We'll be very likely to continue this practice in all other hardcover rulebooks along this line. We'll also be very likely to do hardcover Golarion books. We'll see where we end up!
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I still fail to see the problem. If they called it all Chronicles, you wouldn't have that problem?
Its because it is tied to the subscriptions, if I want all the place books, but don't want the AP Companions or stuff like the harrow deck and map folios, there is no single subscription. I always buy hardcopy and PDF so even with shipping costs to the UK it might be worth it if I got the PDFs free.
Anyway, its just one factor in my choice, and I don't want to labour it further.
Its because it is tied to the subscriptions, if I want all the place books, but don't want the AP Companions or stuff like the harrow deck and map folios, there is no single subscription. I always buy hardcopy and PDF so even with shipping costs to the UK it might be worth it if I got the PDFs free.
Well, AP companions are going away - there will be regional companions for the very regions the AP runs in, but they're as useful as other regional guides. They just happen to be of places the APs take place. The player's guide parts will be moved to fre downloads.
The Tarot Deck was a unique thing so far, one item like that per leap year isn't so bad, is it?
The map folios aren't my thing, either, but I like the sound of the City Map Folio - lots of big, nice maps!
Anyway, with the free PDFs (and the PF advantage on top of that), and the chance to get stuff early (even if it's shipped internationally), and the fact that stuff isn't that cheap around here, I find I save money even after considering map folios.