Second, why guns? What is was the incentive to improve on the hazardous early weapons that were discarded else where, over more readily available and reliable weapons? Disregarding the lack of magic as not all communities elsewhere in the world have constant access to effective combat magic. I'm not saying their shouldn't be guns, however just a absence of magic should not be a catalyst for their development.Well, to look at available ranged weapons there are essentially two kinds available in normal D&D.
The first would be any weapon that is thrown. Daggers, axes, spears, javelins. These very quickly loose effectiveness over distance and with superior armors.
The second is any weapon using added energy. Bows, crossbows, slings, and the atl-atl. These weapons allowed greater energy to applied to projecting the weapon. Unfortunately, there became a problem with scale. To project more energetic weapons you needed larger mechanisms. The ballista is just a very large crossbow.
There is another method of projecting something. This method requires an explosion. While there is no listed alchemical listed in the Equipment List that produces an obvious explosion, several come close to that affect. It is not unreasonable to assume that someone somewhere found an alchemical that would produce an explosion, and shrapnel would be a possible side effect. From there it does not take much to make the leap to using controlled explosions to make make weapons. Take a pipe that can be aimed. Place an shrapnel-like item and put it in the tube, cause a small explosion to project that item at the target. It is a relatively simple thing to achieve.
The earliest weapons would have been dangerous, yes, as the science would need to be tested. But the description of the guns in Alkenstar indicates they are well beyond that. At the worst, the rules for accidents are at the same rate as a Rogue trying to use a Wand- and these are optional rules.
They developed guns, because...
Funny thing about science. Some technologies could theoretically have been implemented much earlier than they were if only the people had made said discoveries earlier. I know that sounds somewhat obvious but if you look into the history of the development of firearms there were advances made because people discovered/stumbled upon a simple improvement that no one had thought of or developed until then. Improvements that were technologically feasible much earlier than when they came about.
Just a small thought.
Anyway, it seems like there is indeed some interest in Alkenstar among the customer base. Though I have to say I don't really care much for official content. Why? Hell, after reading the previous posts in this thread I've seen so many ideas for Alkenstar pop up that I don't think I'd like such an interesting place to become static and canonized. I think it's the perfect place for a community (such as the one formed) to put some work into. Better yet, what a community makes doesn't have to be canon, there could be 'Alkenstar Campaign Options' entries placed in the community for different approaches.
That and if I dare to have psionics in my campaign it just makes sense that it be separate from magic. I always disliked the idea that they were one in the same. Blech. Then again... it would be simpler... and simple is good right? :P I think I might pop into this community and see what's what!
You can't see it but I'm all giddy.
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That and if I dare to have psionics in my campaign it just makes sense that it be separate from magic. I always disliked the idea that they were one in the same. Blech. Then again... it would be simpler... and simple is good right? :P I think I might pop into this community and see what's what!
we have been working with the idea of not having psionics available.. why? easy without magic or psions the humans and dwarfs see themselves forced to develop technology to achieve what other cities and nations achieve easily with such resources...
anyway... we can always see how both of them mix for those interested :D
OK I've joined too. I love talking about unusual places and theorizing about differet aspects, and why something should or should not exist. Just need to read over the entry in the Campaign setting again to let the creative juices flow...
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OK I've joined too. I love talking about unusual places and theorizing about differet aspects, and why something should or should not exist. Just need to read over the entry in the Campaign setting again to let the creative juices flow...
excelent :)
yes some things there has some of us hitting our heads against a wall brick... mainly the food thing :P
excelent :)
yes some things there has some of us hitting our heads against a wall brick... mainly the food thing :P
Well the food thing is answered in the Campaign setting, with Gebs nobles providing most of the food in return for Alkenstar's main export, their ice wine.
Gebbites must really love their wine!Edit: Well the living ones anyway.
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Well the food thing is answered in the Campaign setting, with Gebs nobles providing most of the food in return for Alkenstar's main export, their ice wine.
Gebbites must really love their wine!
indeed... or a lot of wine... but I suppose I can live with that
our worries are... why not srop it suddenly... but I digress :P
indeed... or a lot of wine... but I suppose I can live with that
our worries are... why not srop it suddenly... but I digress :P
It looks to me like Geb is trying to become an economic powerhouse and they use items from Alkenstar, either directly or indirectly, as exports. The Ice Wine, the Crystal Mines of Dongun Hold shipped to Vudra are done as it says in the Campaign setting "thanks to lucrative trade agreements with Nex" (Campaign Setting p. 59) (I read that as Nex saying "thanks for the free taxes!"). Frankly Nex has a good thing set up in Alkenstar. They can't send in any of their own workers (ie. undead) because there is no guarantee that they could recover the resources there before all the undead went nuts from the Mana Wastes. It was a very sneaky move to place people there (the undisirables) next to the dwarves and then make it so that they would WANT to work out the resources of the region, and make it so there are no expenditures on Geb's part, yet they gain great benefits from just being their main export partner. Very sneaky indeed.
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It looks to me like Geb is trying to become an economic powerhouse and they use items from Alkenstar, either directly or indirectly, as exports. The Ice Wine, the Crystal Mines of Dongun Hold shipped to Vudra are done as it says in the Campaign setting "thanks to lucrative trade agreements with Nex" (Campaign Setting p. 59) (I read that as Nex saying "thanks for the free taxes!"). Frankly Nex has a good thing set up in Alkenstar. They can't send in any of their own workers (ie. undead) because there is no guarantee that they could recover the resources there before all the undead went nuts from the Mana Wastes. It was a very sneaky move to place people there (the undisirables) next to the dwarves and then make it so that they would WANT to work out the resources of the region, and make it so there are no expenditures on Geb's part, yet they gain great benefits from just being their main export partner. Very sneaky indeed.
indeed... or a lot of wine... but I suppose I can live with that
our worries are... why not srop it suddenly... but I digress :P
jeje sounds like a very interesting possibility
maybe something for the part of secrets as Geb try to manipulate the area opposed by Nex :P
So is there any consensus as to just what Sandkrakens are? I assume at this stage that it is the Golarion version of Sandworms from Dune. I could see a reason for the very large gun in the side of the cliff because of this. Or maybe just the creatures from the movie Tremors, also explains the entire cliff-living agenda...
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So is there any consensus as to just what Sandkrakens are? I assume at this stage that it is the Golarion version of Sandworms from Dune. I could see a reason for the very large gun in the side of the cliff because of this. Or maybe just the creatures from the movie Tremors, also explains the entire cliff-living agenda...
we don't know exactly what they are...
we were looking if there was any reference but haven't cheked it thorughly
but yes, they sound scary...
we don't know exactly what they are...we were looking if there was any reference but haven't cheked it thorughly
but yes, they sound scary...
Well it looks like they might just leave it up to us. That would be cool. I vote for the 'tremors' type. Then again maybe they could both be considered the same animal, just different HD amount because of size.
Random Thought:
If DR/Material is (EX) insteand of (SU) I could picture a lot of lycnathrops living there. Espeically since (IIRC) They couldn't change shape or spread their curse. (Both are SU)
actually they might be cured within Alkenstar :P
intriguing thought
I would actually argue that as long as they stay within the boundaries of the Mana Waste they would not be able to change into their alternate forms, but would still be able to infect people. A good reason to come and STAY within the borders, but if you left then it's back to square one as far as the changes go.
At the very least, you might have rabies...|
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I would actually argue that as long as they stay within the boundaries of the Mana Waste they would not be able to change into their alternate forms, but would still be able to infect people. A good reason to come and STAY within the borders, but if you left then it's back to square one as far as the changes go.
At the very least, you might have rabies...
as a Ravenloft fan I do believe that a werewolf in human form, while having a lookalike to the wolf he becomes, would show himself like any other human...
about the infection... it could be... but its a magical curse... within the confiens of the Mana Waste no magic works... same with cursed items... if you have a cursed item you want to get rid of you go to the mana wastes for a few days until its magic is depleted, you throw it there and move along...
if you survive, of course :P
but yes, once they leave the Mana Wastes... the curses came full strenght...
ok infection might be transferable in an hereditary way, that way a child froma werewolf might be a True Werewolf and he wouldn't know until leaving the region... this i like for an story :D
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Well it looks like they might just leave it up to us. That would be cool. I vote for the 'tremors' type. Then again maybe they could both be considered the same animal, just different HD amount because of size.
we don't know exactly what they are...we were looking if there was any reference but haven't cheked it thorughly
but yes, they sound scary...
maybe they are different creatures (tremors & sand krakens), but options could be interesting to see... but aye... we need a creature like in tremors, definitively
I believe there is an example sandkraken in House of the Beast (Legacy of Fire book 2), if I recall it's part of the beasiary for that book.
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Sand Krakens are exactly what the name would suggest, desert-dwelling cephalopods. Large-sized Aberrations, 10 tentacle attacks and a bite, plus improved grab and constrict, so it's a CR 8. Tremorsense and Camoflage, an automatic Hide/Stealth ability (DC 20 Spot/Perception to notice), too. Kinda nasty.
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Sand Krakens are exactly what the name would suggest, desert-dwelling cephalopods. Large-sized Aberrations, 10 tentacle attacks and a bite, plus improved grab and constrict, so it's a CR 8. Tremorsense and Camoflage, an automatic Hide/Stealth ability (DC 20 Spot/Perception to notice), too. Kinda nasty.
cool... ok sounds nasty... also fun...
mmm now that I remember...
there is one anime that uses wind ships to travel in the desert... they don't fly they just travel like sail ships... with the wind... would be interesting to confront an aberration like that in such a ship :D
indeed
in the case of Valkyria Chronicles, what makes em think of Alkenstar is the feeling the characters give you... and the uniforms of the empire... they use a dark red uniform with a breastplate and helmet, protections in both feet and arm... while its not that useful against bullets... against the creatures of the mana wastes would work wonders
Okay, now that I can get behind. I love their outfits, and the animation style is just AMAZING!!!!!
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Okay, now that I can get behind. I love their outfits, and the animation style is just AMAZING!!!!!indeed
in the case of Valkyria Chronicles, what makes em think of Alkenstar is the feeling the characters give you... and the uniforms of the empire... they use a dark red uniform with a breastplate and helmet, protections in both feet and arm... while its not that useful against bullets... against the creatures of the mana wastes would work wonders
oohh yes it is :D
Having had read the bestiary for Legacy of Fire: Howl of the Carrion King, I had this thought involving those insectile-crustecean gremlin/mites with the hammers...
They go roaming around Alkenstar in invading packs, just waiting for the opportunity to go wreak havoc on all the complicated gears/machinery/widgets/doodads that Alkenstar has to offer.
Only thing is that the Mana Wastes cancels out whatever special abilities those gremlin/mites (forgot the proper names of them) got, so the Alkenstar folk can take them out without any undue magical intereference.
Just found the thought amusing, for some reason.
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Having had read the bestiary for Legacy of Fire: Howl of the Carrion King, I had this thought involving those insectile-crustecean gremlin/mites with the hammers...
They go roaming around Alkenstar in invading packs, just waiting for the opportunity to go wreak havoc on all the complicated gears/machinery/widgets/doodads that Alkenstar has to offer.
Only thing is that the Mana Wastes cancels out whatever special abilities those gremlin/mites (forgot the proper names of them) got, so the Alkenstar folk can take them out without any undue magical intereference.
Just found the thought amusing, for some reason.
je, i suppose them become mostly a nuisance more tahn true horrors, just like rats :P
I could see the officers using revolvers, while the main wall defenders might have bolt action rifles, and the older citizens would have their old firearms, muskets, flintlocks, etc.
Bump, Alkenstar ideas have waned recently, we could use some more ideas here or on Montalve's Alkenstar forum.
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Cloudreaver Keep: Why is it being attacked by yetis, and ghosts?
Perhaps the land the keep was built on was sacred to the yetis. Used as a burial ground in the past. The keep gets erected without anyone knowing this fact, or not carrying. Afterward we start to have "Poltergeist" like activity. The guards attacked by the restless dead and even by fallen comrades, cursed to wander until the others spirits find rest.
Maybe the magics that caused the Mana Wastes had a strange effect on this part of the land. Creatures that die there can't move on the to the Boneyard to be judged. The yetis know of this effect and find the building of the keep a bad omen.
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Sounds like a community project to me...
Who wants to start a Community Alkenstar project?
I'd start a site, but I'm working on some ideas for publication, so I don't want to start a site I would have to shut-down when I became a publisher. I would love to contribute to someone elses community site though.
And Hogarth, I see Alkenstar as a half-Renaissance, quarter-pirate, 1/8th western, and 100% steampunk!
I'd be interested. I like steampunk fantasy.
Edit: Replied before reading the rest of the thread. Looks like some ideas are being bounced around. Let me think on this some and see what I come up with.
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yes, this would be good to revive the project
we have some ideas in the forum, but most of us have beenn busy for the time being
I have a great interest in Alkenstar, partially because I connected it to Ptolus for my "Ptolus in Golarion" project. And partially because I like the idea of guns in my fantasy, even just a little.
I will do what I can and I hope I will be of some assistance.
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Grr, the Alkenstar forum ate my post. But I got some it retyped
Post my thoughts here
I don't think the Mana Wastes is a death sentence for the gnomes. Having taken a look at the description of the Bleaching, gnomes while they should be rare in the land could easily get along well in the Wastes. The Bleaching is brought on by lack of experiencing new wonders. And I for one think the wastes would be full of deadly and exciting things to do. Weither it's the gnome how plans to ride a Sand Kraken, the gnome bravely staying the night in Cloudreaper Keep, or the gnome planing on a barrel ride over Alken Falls.
Now I could see a tribe of wandering "Bleachlings" either barely surving the wastes or trying to bring the dead land back to life. While at the same time gangs of Spriggans roam the land and depths of Alkenstar spreading misery and destruction, having been driven mad and twisted by the magic that caused the Mana Wastes.
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good good
thanke
we have there some discusion
je as you would see everyone want certain thing or another
in this i tend to go with James Jacobs, the reason there in guns and technology is because there was no other thing to ocupy that place, so no magic, no psionics
the rest... is a bit of everyone likings for such a place
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A whole AP would be pushing it (I'm pushing for a Mendev/Worldwound big war AP) but I'd definitely love an Alkenstar companion and possibly a module. And Steampunk/Guns is far far more fantastical feel to me than the Numeria stuff or even the Shory stuff.
Don't let James get the Alken-fans' hopes down though! He's also said that a Dwarves of Golarion would be the LAST of the races to get a companion and sure enough it's now the NEXT racial companion!
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A whole AP would be pushing it (I'm pushing for a Mendev/Worldwound big war AP) but I'd definitely love an Alkenstar companion and possibly a module. And Steampunk/Guns is far far more fantastical feel to me than the Numeria stuff or even the Shory stuff.
Don't let James get the Alken-fans' hopes down though! He's also said that a Dwarves of Golarion would be the LAST of the races to get a companion and sure enough it's now the NEXT racial companion!
yeah, but he said that because he doesn't like dwarves :P
and since the threat is to let it as it is... maybe is up to us to make something interesting for such interesting place
Just recently spent a week of vacation time visiting my brother out of town. The devious fellow has a PS3, widescreen tv, surround sound system, and Valkryia Chronicles and got me hooked... and a 3 hour drive (6 hours round trip) and a full tank of gas is just a little too much just to play the game. I love the story and art on that game!
I also like the idea of having a little "steampunk" flavor in one corner of Golarion.
Perhaps not a full AP but I for one would also vote for at least a Companion to broaden the game info for Alkenstar after awhile to help inject new questions/ideas into a community project. A few item cards with pistols, muskets, and rifles would not be out of place either! :)
After just reading through all the posts... I'm pretty sure I remember someone mentioning Equilibrium. Gun Kata does sound fun to add. Perhaps a vuldrani monk found his way to Alkenstar and founded the style.
I'd also suggest having more than a few upgraded or "proto-type" crossbows to be found in Alkenstar. Before stumbling upon the means to make firearms they'd use and improve what they had at hand. I'd say that repeating crossbows would also be more prevalent in Alkenstar. A great crossbow outfitted with "gnomish sites" from the Arms and Equipment guidebook makes a fairly good "sniper rifle" and packs a wallop. Considering the upgraded nature of poisons in the coming release of the Pathfinder RPG, a simple pistol crossbow could also be more than just "1d4 damage". Adding in a repeating hand crossbow (a dart gun) wouldn't be too far off base. However... ultimately... I see the crossbow evolving into a means to launch alchemical solutions. Effectively becoming proto-type grenade launchers. These evolved crossbows could even be spring or steam driven weapons.
(While the firearms of Alkenstar are kept close at hand, perhaps some of these upgraded crossbows are being sold or traded for supplemental food stores and have begun to make their way into greater Golarion.)
On the issue of food, perhaps one or two al/chemists with "green thumbs" and nature knowledge have stumbled upon various alchemical additives for soil. Having a few greenhouses popping up in Alkenstar might be interesting. I wonder what interesting plants might survive in the mana wastes.
Good luck on the Alkenstar project. Hopefully I'll find time to help at some point.
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Questions flowed through my mind this evening...
Are the Mana Wastes treated as a HUGE Antimagic Field? Is so, how and why do ghosts exist in Cloudreaver Keep ("Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field")? Perhaps they're not really ghosts, but something else entirely.
If they are ghosts then maybe there's more to the Wastes then meets the eye.
Also what about creatures with spell-like or supernatural abilities. I'm sure most fled the lasnd along time ago, but what the ones that stayed. Would they still have there powers, like the ghost can still materialize, or are they learning to live without them or have they developed new abilities to replace what they lost?
Healing. not sure this has been covered, but how should healing be handled in the Wastes. Could it be thanks to there knowledge of alchemy they've been able to produce potions of healing without the use of spells? Perhaps feats like Master Craftsman are common?
Your superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items. Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks.
Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.
Benefit: Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Chapter 15). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.
Normal: Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.
But of course changes would need to be made for the item to not be treated as magic. Perhaps feats that grant some type healing x times/day?
Of course you could always just go with "Only Natural Healing work"
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I have been playing a gun toting nobleman in my wives Crimson Throne game, all my party mates first thought i had weird clunky wands until a loud BOOM emitted from it and a hole appeared through the head of the alligator! i was inspired by Baltier from FF12, my character traveled far to Alkenstar to learn the secrets of gunsmithing and brought it back to Korvosa. he has not traded the information as per it was an oath he made to his mentor.
we used the Iron kingdoms gun rules 80ft range 2d6dmg 19-20x3 (pay extra for extra barrels) and they have been a very good exotic weapon but no better than a great bow or great crossbow ( that one is 2d8 19-20x2, it actually has a better damage output) either that or i would use the pistols from the dragon magazine ( 30ft 1d6 dmg but is a TOUCH ATTACK )
I love Alkenstar (and its giant F'ing MAKO CANNON!) just unnerf the firearms, why the f$%k they are not using longbows in alkenstar is beyond me. firearms as stated are not even a minor replacement for magic (make it a touch attack and i can see it working)
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Thanks Lokie, those are indeed some interesting ideas :)+
and yes this is a Project thatneeds to be revived
I have been playing a gun toting nobleman in my wives Crimson Throne game, all my party mates first thought i had weird clunky wands until a loud BOOM emitted from it and a hole appeared through the head of the alligator! i was inspired by Baltier from FF12, my character traveled far to Alkenstar to learn the secrets of gunsmithing and brought it back to Korvosa. he has not traded the information as per it was an oath he made to his mentor.
we used the Iron kingdoms gun rules 80ft range 2d6dmg 19-20x3 (pay extra for extra barrels) and they have been a very good exotic weapon but no better than a great bow or great crossbow ( that one is 2d8 19-20x2, it actually has a better damage output) either that or i would use the pistols from the dragon magazine ( 30ft 1d6 dmg but is a TOUCH ATTACK )
I love Alkenstar (and its giant F'ing MAKO CANNON!) just unnerf the firearms, why the f$%k they are not using longbows in alkenstar is beyond me. firearms as stated are not even a minor replacement for magic (make it a touch attack and i can see it working)
je that sounds like a cool char Sneaksy Dragon...
I agree... in our game 1 player uses a flintlock like last resource weapon... rules for it?
-touch attack
-halves DR
-Max Damage in the die means you get to rerroll it until you get something different than the highest number
-crit x3
this player got a critical against a very dangerous enemy... he got enough damage to blow his brains in a single shot... 1 round of the combat... that brought moral down enough for them to try to make a run,... time the wizard used to bring them down with a well placed spell, the rest of the aprty was busy saving slaves from a mad man with a wand of Clouskill with 1 shot left...