| FireBorn |
I hope this isn't the wrong place to ask this question but if it is wrong please tell me where to write it.
As for the question, here it is: during the last game session me and my party encountered 6 duergars in a dungeon. one the duergar priest casts a deeper darkness spell to himself. As you may know, darkness spells does not block darkvision, but unfortunately our group consists of non-darkvision races. as the spell continues to effect us, our bard wants to use his inspire courage spell on us. he chose to use this ability by singing (not by dancing because non of us sees each other). this is where the arguments began; our DM said to the bard that he cannot do that bacause neither he nor us could see each other and that is why the bard cannot choose which person to inspire and which person he would not inspire. As for the DM's opinion, bard song is kind of a spell (Su) which needs targetting so that if the bard uses his inspire courage ability, all of the creatures that are able to hear him (including the duergars) would be inspired. He also add that the bard needs to choose whether the target is ally or not by seeing the target (so a invisible target cannot be inspired by this ability even if he or she is an ally of the bard).
i hope i was able to tell you what my question is. for the short version:
Can a human bard, who is in effect of a darkness spell, inspire courage (by singing) in his allies who are in darkness as well?
thanks
The black raven
|
To counter your GM's argument, your Bard can still recognize his allies and their position by sound. They can for example begin to sing a song and he just carries on while boosting them.
Hmm, Duergar-smashing musical.
But even that is not necessary with PFRPG beta. The rules explicitely state on page 17 which performances require line of sight and which require the targets being able to hear you. Since Singing is not specifically mentioned, it falls under the rule of "Bardic performance activated using any other type of Perform only requires the targets to be able to hear the Bard."
Since Inspire courage poses no further conditions on its use and even specifically mentions that it affects your allies (which the Duergars are definitely not a part of), the answer to your question is a resounding YES !!!
Krome
|
I would still say yes anyway.
You can easily target an individual with song and not encourage the bad guys.
Try:
"Hey Wrathgar you are a super awesome fighter now go kill all those duegar ad your name will live forever."
now surely the duergar won't be inspired and you have targeted Wrathgar as your target...
and obviously I have NO ranks in Perform... so shut up ya'll I'm a fighter not a dandy!
| Selenet301 |
I would still say yes anyway.
You can easily target an individual with song and not encourage the bad guys.
Try:
"Hey Wrathgar you are a super awesome fighter now go kill all those duegar ad your name will live forever."
now surely the duergar won't be inspired and you have targeted Wrathgar as your target...
and obviously I have NO ranks in Perform... so shut up ya'll I'm a fighter not a dandy!
Hilarious! But also very true! I can so see that working.
| Shadowborn |
Straight from the Pathfinder Beta, emphasis mine:
A bard with 1 or more ranks in a
Perform skill can use his performance to inspire courage
in his allies (including himself ), bolstering them against
fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected,
an ally must be able to percieve [sic] the bard’s performance.
According to the rules, allies need to be able to perceive the performance. Since darkness does not inhibit their ability to hear, they will benefit from the effects. Since the duergar are not allies, they have no chance of being affected by the performance.
| The Wraith |
I have another couple of questions.
What about an ally who suddenly becomes Dominated and starts to whack his allies? Would you allow him to be still affected by Bardic Performance like the others? Only for 5 rounds more (like when Bardic Perform stops)? Ends immediately?
What if the Bard doesn't want to include the ally from the beginning (maybe because he is easily subjected to Charm/Domination/whatever and the Bard doesn't want a potential enemy with macro-boosts among the party - or maybe because the party is going to do something 'questionable', and the Paladin of the group - who is ignare of the thing - could be a hindrance if boosted)? Can he exclude him (I believe the answer is 'yes', but again this can be questionable...)?
These are the kind of questions which often 'pop-up' during sessions and where the rules are strangely silent about...
| KaeYoss |
I, too, add my voice to the support of blind bards.
If I support my allies or hinder my enemies verbally, I don't need to see where they are. Or even who they are.
If I sing a song about the heroes living forever and defeating every foe, the heroes will know who they are, and so will the foes.
I have another couple of questions.
What about an ally who suddenly becomes Dominated and starts to whack his allies? Would you allow him to be still affected by Bardic Performance like the others? Only for 5 rounds more (like when Bardic Perform stops)? Ends immediately?
I don't think the rules cover that explicitly, but I'd say you don't get to add the bonus to your allies. He's not encouraging you to hit your friends.
What if the Bard doesn't want to include the ally from the beginning
My call would be that yes, you can exclude allies. You'll just have to choose a song/piece of performance that particular character hates. Want to exclude the dwarf? Sing about "standing tall" and he'll be too annoyed to be heartened by your performance.
Of course, stuff like that can get problematic - especially since bardic music can actually help against charms.
These are the kind of questions which often 'pop-up' during sessions and where the rules are strangely silent about...
Not strange at all. If everything were covered, we wouldn' thave the PHB. We'd have "PHB MXMVII: Bardic Music Abilities, Levels 1-3 - 1000 pages full of rules concerning lowest-level Bardic Music and its nuances".
The GM would then be called Great Number One Point Zero.
Krome
|
I agree with KaeYoss... did I just say that? lol
I can't imagine that an ally that is forced to attacked you would be included in the benefits. I would really call it a situational thing. Heck if one of the duegar did happen to be good (I know I know) and wanted to help you, then he MIGHT be subject to the spell effect. Maybe... depends upon the story the GM wants to tell.
| Majuba |
this is where the arguments began; our DM said ...
the DM's opinion...
He also added...Can a human bard, who is in effect of a darkness spell, inspire courage (by singing) in his allies who are in darkness as well?
The DM is always right.
That said, your DM is dead wrong.
I'm gonna disagree with the others that the Dominated ally would lose the inspiration right away - I feel once inspired, even if it was to "kill the dragon" that dominated him, he'd at least have the rest of the duration (or 5 rounds).
As for excluding allies: Yes, bards can exclude allies. And Yes, DM's can bash them over the heads with the new PFRPG 600 page book if they do it. (all my opinion of course).
Snorter
|
I would still say yes anyway.
You can easily target an individual with song and not encourage the bad guys.
<ahem>
This is a little thing I put together about the derro...
"In the year of fifty-sixty-nine,
In the Pass of Slerotin,
The Suel made some midget freaks,
And now we do the lot in!"
"Pasty blue skin, goggle-eyes,
Grubbing feebly in the dirt.
Flush them out and cut them down,
Make them cry and make them hurt!"