I have a question regarding the selection of traits.
In the Pathfinder Character Traits Web Enhancements it says
When selecting traits, you may not select more than one from the same list of traits.
There are now two interpretation of "lists":
1) each type of trait is one list: basic, campaign, race, regional, religion.
2) each category is its own list: basic/combat, basic/faith, basic/magic, basic/social, campaign, race, regional, religion.
In the Legacy of Fire Player's Guide the types are called categories, and the categories are called subcategories, and it says
A character can only have one trait from each particular trait category or subcategory.
My question now is this. In an Adventure Path, can a character who is allowed more than one non-campaign trait due to his Additional Traits feat take more than one basic trait, provided they come from different (sub)categories? Or can he take only one basic trait und must choose the remaining ones from other types of traits?
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combat, faith, magic and social count as different categories
add regional and race
and I suppose it depends on the GM
if its reasonable I allow same category... as I have been allowed a cleric with birthmark and sacred hand to emphatice her divine chosing (even if she haven't really needed to use sacred hand that much :P)
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changed
For
Pathfinder Adventure Paths, there are two categories of traits to choose from. One of your traits must be a campaign trait chosen from the list given in that Adventure Path’s Player’s Guide—this trait ties your character into the campaign’s storyline and gives you a built-in reason to begin the first adventure. Your other trait can be chosen from one of the other types of traits: basic traits, region traits, race traits, or religion traits.
basically to link the character with the Adventure Path... but this is GM call if a player could explain how a trait links him to the adventure i let that work
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Tholas,
Two points:
1) In the original document (Second Darkness Player's Guide) it refers to lists. Now, each of the basic trait subcategories is clearly a separate list, as the numbering is restarted each time.
2) It says you start with two traits, one campaign trait and one basic. However, there are no traits that are not Campaign Traits or Basic Traits. Given the rules for the Additional Traits (you cannot take traits in lists you've already taken), this would make the Additional Traits feat functionally useless as you could not take any trait.
Taking these two together, I conclude that the basic traits refers to all traits that are not campaign traits and each subset is a separate category for the purpose of ttaking traits.
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considering that in the PDF you only have those 4 and already you only got 2 traits... and should not chose them from the same category... I would say it sounds logicThat is because this document clearly states that you need the additional trait categories from the appropriate player's guide.
In a discussion I prefer to make my points based on the rules-as-written, even if I do not agree with them. If my GM wants to change something I've no problem with that.
but you are free to take it whichever way you prefer
you msut have missed I edited my full answer giving you what the actual Traits PDF says... so AP vs Others... that are your choices... in my case as GM I would allow max 1 from the AP, if they don't want one of the AP then they can take any 2 they want
Taking these two together, I conclude that the basic traits refers to all traits that are not campaign traits and each subset is a separate category for the purpose of ttaking traits.
I agree
Tholas,
Two points:
1) In the original document (Second Darkness Player's Guide) it refers to lists. Now, each of the basic trait subcategories is clearly a separate list, as the numbering is restarted each time.2) It says you start with two traits, one campaign trait and one basic. However, there are no traits that are not Campaign Traits or Basic Traits. Given the rules for the Additional Traits (you cannot take traits in lists you've already taken), this would make the Additional Traits feat functionally useless as you could not take any trait.
Taking these two together, I conclude that the basic traits refers to all traits that are not campaign traits and each subset is a separate category for the purpose of ttaking traits.
Not quite true, there are also race, religion, and regional traits. Those are their own categories, neither basic nor campaign.
Creative Director
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There are, basically, 8 categories of traits. You can't have more than one trait from a category.
The 8 categories are the four basic traits (Combat, Faith, Magic, Social), regional traits, race traits, religion traits, and campaign traits.
For Adventure Paths, it's STRONGLY recommended that one of your character's 2 traits be a Campaign Trait, since those traits tie you into the AP you're about to play and are tailored to be good for that specific campaign. Your other trait can come from any of the seven other categories.
If you pick up the Additional Traits feat, you can pick 2 more traits, but those have to be from unique categories as well. This means that anyone can take Additional Traits a maximum of 3 times (or 4 times, if your game doesn't give out 2 free traits at the start), and can only have a maximum of 8 traits.
Thank you, James, that was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.
Edit: I think the Additional Traits feat doesn't say it can be taken more than once.
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Do remember folks that under traits it says that "A character can only have one trait from each particular trait category or subcategory."
So we have our categories: Basic, Campaign, Race, Region and Religion. And then we have subcategories: Basic/Combat, Basic/Religion, Basic/Social, Basic/Magic as well as Race/Region and Race/Religion (Elves of Golarion) and IIRC there's a couple more (I'm doing this without the books/files in front of me).
Now then, the way I understand it is this: if I take, for example, a Basic/Religion trait I then cannot take a trait from the other three subcategories in the Basic category, I have to pick from one of the other four categories. And, if the category has them, from a different subcategory as well - say I'm playing an elf and I've picked from the Basic/Religion category/subcategory, I then could not select a trait from the Race/Religion subcategory.
Does this make sense?
[Now, of course, getting 'official' clarification from Paizo would be much better (-:]
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Creative Director
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Do remember folks that under traits it says that "A character can only have one trait from each particular trait category or subcategory."
So we have our categories: Basic, Campaign, Race, Region and Religion. And then we have subcategories: Basic/Combat, Basic/Religion, Basic/Social, Basic/Magic as well as Race/Region and Race/Religion (Elves of Golarion) and IIRC there's a couple more (I'm doing this without the books/files in front of me).
Now then, the way I understand it is this: if I take, for example, a Basic/Religion trait I then cannot take a trait from the other three subcategories in the Basic category, I have to pick from one of the other four categories. And, if the category has them, from a different subcategory as well - say I'm playing an elf and I've picked from the Basic/Religion category/subcategory, I then could not select a trait from the Race/Religion subcategory.
Does this make sense?
[Now, of course, getting 'official' clarification from Paizo would be much better (-:]
The "Basic" traits is simply a way to set aside those four categories and close them off; we won't be expanding those four categories, but for the others we will be.
So you can pick your two traits from the following categories, but can't pick TWO from one of the following categories:
Combat
Religion
Social
Magic
Regional
Race
Religion
Campaign
Honestly, the reason for this limitation isn't really a mechanical one. It's there purely to force players to spread out their traits; a fighter can't just take combat feats, for example. He has to find a second trait from some other category. This is our sneaky way of tricking players into diversifying their character backgrounds a bit, I guess...
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The "Basic" traits is simply a way to set aside those four categories and close them off; we won't be expanding those four categories, but for the others we will be.
So you can pick your two traits from the following categories, but can't pick TWO from one of the following categories:
Combat
Religion
Social
Magic
Regional
Race
Religion
CampaignHonestly, the reason for this limitation isn't really a mechanical one. It's there purely to force players to spread out their traits; a fighter can't just take combat feats, for example. He has to find a second trait from some other category. This is our sneaky way of tricking players into diversifying their character backgrounds a bit, I guess...
So the Combat/Religion/Social/Magic headers from the Basic trait list are considered categories, not subcategories? Asking because you have listed Religion twice (The need for full clarification comes from being German, lol).
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Creative Director
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So the Combat/Religion/Social/Magic headers from the Basic trait list are considered categories, not subcategories? Asking because you have listed Religion twice (The need for full clarification comes from being German, lol).The "Basic" traits is simply a way to set aside those four categories and close them off; we won't be expanding those four categories, but for the others we will be.
So you can pick your two traits from the following categories, but can't pick TWO from one of the following categories:
Combat
Religion
Social
Magic
Regional
Race
Religion
CampaignHonestly, the reason for this limitation isn't really a mechanical one. It's there purely to force players to spread out their traits; a fighter can't just take combat feats, for example. He has to find a second trait from some other category. This is our sneaky way of tricking players into diversifying their character backgrounds a bit, I guess...
crap
The first "religion" in my list should be "faith" feats. Faith feats are generic and not tied to specific deities, but religion traits are.
Thus:
Combat
Faith
Social
Magic
Regional
Race
Religion
Campaign
now... we just need some traits for Iomedae :D
I have one:
Tentacle Lover (Iomedae) Your duties as a priestess of the Inheritor have brought you into frequent contact with tentacled Things From Beyond Space And Time, and you've grown to enjoy their company. You are immune to fear effects based on appearance (i.e. "shocking true form" stuff) and gain a +2 bonus to grapple (/CMB) checks made to initiate or maintain a grapple. On the other hand, you gain a -2 penalty to grapple (/CMB) and escape artist made to escape a grapple.
now... we just need some traits for Iomedae :DI have one:
Tentacle Lover (Iomedae) Your duties as a priestess of the Inheritor have brought you into frequent contact with tentacled Things From Beyond Space And Time, and you've grown to enjoy their company. You are immune to fear effects based on appearance (i.e. "shocking true form" stuff) and gain a +2 bonus to grapple (/CMB) checks made to initiate or maintain a grapple. On the other hand, you gain a -2 penalty to grapple (/CMB) and escape artist made to escape a grapple.
Gentacles.
We has them.
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I have one:
Tentacle Lover (Iomedae) Your duties as a priestess of the Inheritor have brought you into frequent contact with tentacled Things From Beyond Space And Time, and you've grown to enjoy their company. You are immune to fear effects based on appearance (i.e. "shocking true form" stuff) and gain a +2 bonus to grapple (/CMB) checks made to initiate or maintain a grapple. On the other hand, you gain a -2 penalty to grapple (/CMB) and escape artist made to escape a grapple.
Bonuses are interesting... what worries me is shouldn't traits be taken in character creation?
and one need to enjoy the company?