Familiars in Pathfinder

[Shades of Eternity]

I was playing in a pathfinder rpg game and found out something involving familiars.

namely that they are a pain in the ass.

I have never been a fan of the 3.0/3.5 rules of familiars. either they hide too much or they are very powerful in horribly contribed circumstances.

So I decided to take one to see how it would play.

Let me state that I love pathfinders skill system. I like it a ton better how it has been simplified for ease of use.

However, this very simplified system makes it game breaking.

let's say I'm playing a 6th level wizard with an owl familiar

I put 6 points into perception.

The owl gets these points outright because the skill points transfer outright to the critter.

however, instead of using your bonuses, it uses it's own natural abilities.

quoting the monster manual:

Skills: Owls have a +8 racial bonus on Listen checks and a +14 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. *They have a +8 racial bonus on Spot checks in areas of shadowy illumination.

plus it's wisdom of 14 gives a +2 to perception.

So you get a perception (spot): of +8/+16 in shadowy conditions and +16 to listen checks.

Furthermore in those situations you can have your familiar : aid another to yourself, giving a +2 to your skills in most situations

am I missing something here?

[Maxxx]

Well, the problem here is not really the new skill system, but that the monster manual entries are not yet converted. With the new skill system one should lower some of the racial bonuses to spot and listen, as they were originally designed for animals with only 1 skill rank per level (after int penalty) and who thus could not afford both skills at maximum but still retain a level of expertise in these skills that was deamed "realistic". In the new system I would half nearly all of these bonuses.

But another question arises, if as a wizard you put 6 ranks into Perception, does your owl familiar gain the +3 bonus for class-skill, as Perception is definately a class skill for an owl?

[Majuba]

Shades of Eternity wrote:

Skills: Owls have a +8 racial bonus on Listen checks and a +14 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. *They have a +8 racial bonus on Spot checks in areas of shadowy illumination.

plus it's wisdom of 14 gives a +2 to perception.

So you get a perception (spot): of +8/+16 in shadowy conditions and +16 to listen checks.

You took a familiar.. he has high skill bonuses.. and that is a pain in the ass?

And.. umm.. In 3.5 if a wizard put as much effort into Listen or Spot, the Owl would have had a bonus of 14.5, and +10 in the other. The skill consolidation makes it a bit stronger, but hardly that big a difference.

And I missing your point?

Edit: As for the aid another - it's a bit questionable what actions can be "aided" in that way, but again, nothing new, and not really that powerful.

[KaeYoss]

I'd say the listen/spot bonus translates into a flat +8, and maybe low-light vision on top of that (or double-strength llw).