The Playtest time is already over and so this (sadly) cannot be taken in consideration anymore...
But:
"Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 12th level or higher can use the Stealth skill to hide in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.
"Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed."
(page 38)
Basically, this cuts out Urban and Dungeon environments, doesn't it?
A friend of mine (who is currently playing a Ranger) has pointed out that it sounds strange at best that those abilities cannot be used in some Favored Terrains at all.
His precise words were: "Come on, if I take Urban Favored Terrain or Dungeon Favored Terrain I cannot Hide in Plain Sight, but if I try to hide in a desert or on an empty beach I can disappear, even if I didn't took them as Favored Terrain at all? What a great training I have..."
Don't you feel that it would have been better if the Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight abilities could be used only in all your chosen Favored Terrains (and not in ALL natural terrains, preventing a Urban Ranger or a Dungeon-Crawl Ranger to hide)?
The Playtest time is already over and so this (sadly) cannot be taken in consideration anymore...
But:
"Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 12th level or higher can use the Stealth skill to hide in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.
"Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth skill even while being observed."
(page 38)Basically, this cuts out Urban and Dungeon environments, doesn't it?
A friend of mine (who is currently playing a Ranger) has pointed out that it sounds strange at best that those abilities cannot be used in some Favored Terrains at all.
His precise words were: "Come on, if I take Urban Favored Terrain or Dungeon Favored Terrain I cannot Hide in Plain Sight, but if I try to hide in a desert or on an empty beach I can disappear, even if I didn't took them as Favored Terrain at all? What a great training I have..."Don't you feel that it would have been better if the Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight abilities could be used only in all your chosen Favored Terrains (and not in ALL natural terrains, preventing a Urban Ranger or a Dungeon-Crawl Ranger to hide)?
I'd just houserule it that instead of Natural Terrain, it's Favored Terrain ... one word change and it works :)
When exactly does the Final go to print (i.e. becomes set in stone?)
Creative Director
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When exactly does the Final go to print (i.e. becomes set in stone?)
Very soon. I'm not sure we're giving out the exact date, but a minor change like this is certainly workable (and again, there's a great chance it's already been caught and changed in the final).
I'm not looking for a deluge of additional comments and suggestions though... and Jason CERTAINLY isn't. The change above is a great example of something that might be a cool change to make, but it certainly isn't a change that breaks the game if it's not put in.
But yeah, the book is now in editing and development, and it'll be going to the printer VERY soon.
And that said... we're technically already a few weeks past the point where the actual rules are set in stone, and any further changes we might want to make are in that tricky realm of "If we change this does it cause a lot of ripple-effect changes throughout the rest of the book?" where we might need to not make changes simply because it's not worth the trouble to fix something that's not really broken.
Don't you feel that it would have been better if the Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight abilities could be used only in all your chosen Favored Terrains (and not in ALL natural terrains, preventing a Urban Ranger or a Dungeon-Crawl Ranger to hide)?
But it could actually be a design intention, that the Ranger be wilderness orientated, and those abilities you're talking about would be reserved for an URBAN RANGER class VARIANT. I'm not advocating either way, and given an Urban Ranger variant isn't in Core, it would be convenient if the rules "sort of" supported such a theme. I do expect a Pathfinder Urban Ranger variant to come out AT SOME POINT though (and it's easy enough to merge the 3.5 Urban Ranger into the Pathfinder one), so eventually it should be fixed either way...
Don't you feel that it would have been better if the Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight abilities could be used only in all your chosen Favored Terrains (and not in ALL natural terrains, preventing a Urban Ranger or a Dungeon-Crawl Ranger to hide)?But it could actually be a design intention, that the Ranger be wilderness orientated, and those abilities you're talking about would be reserved for an URBAN RANGER class VARIANT. I'm not advocating either way, and given an Urban Ranger variant isn't in Core, it would be convenient if the rules "sort of" supported such a theme. I do expect a Pathfinder Urban Ranger variant to come out AT SOME POINT though (and it's easy enough to merge the 3.5 Urban Ranger into the Pathfinder one), so eventually it should be fixed either way...
It's already in the Beta in that you can chose Urban as a Favored Terrain :)
That seems like a really good fix. I'll see if I can't sneak that fix in to the final rules, assuming that it hasn't already been addressed (which is very possible...).
Very cool, thank you !
(Even if this cannot be included in the Final version, it's good to see that you still listen to our feedback!)
Again, thanks !