Based solely from what I've read on these boards, once I get the PHB2, I plan to make either a multi-classed Paladin/Avenger or a pair of characters whose focus to to work together at all times, maybe siblings that trained together, one from each class.
An ancient Goliath Warden who is covered in plants and lichen and has a small tree growing out of his head.
I want to see if I can combine it with a Shifter to use the druid class to flavor-text my way into playing a werewolf. ^-^
But then, I don't have PH2 yet, so I don't even know for sure if that's possible.
Personally, I want to make a Deva Shaman, summoning his past incarnations for aid.
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I want to see if I can combine it with a Shifter to use the druid class to flavor-text my way into playing a werewolf. ^-^
But then, I don't have PH2 yet, so I don't even know for sure if that's possible.
Defiantly possible to do, add in a couple of custom feats and your almost a good as a lycanthrope.
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Moooom! Matthew took my character!
A little character background ...
It was during Firstlight Prayer when he first walked in, this man of blue and gold. As a boy I remember looking up in that snowy predawn haze to see him approaching, clothed in nothing but the serenity of one who is at peace with both god and self. He stepped quietly into the Hall of Mediation and took a seat amongst the rest of the prayerful, joining their ancient chants as they sang to greet the morning. Master Samas, the elderly dragonborn and leader of our sect, merely nodded and smiled at his approach, almost as if he were expecting the stranger. Solomah studied long with us, and when Master Samas was at last satisfied with all the student had learned, he cast this new Spear of Pelor into the world, to do the will of our god.
It’s been many a year since Master Samas left this world, and after several others the title of Master finally fell upon me. It’s been so long since I last saw Solomah, walking down from our mountain in the brightness of Pelor’s gaze that I had all but forgotten him. Yet, there’s this knowledge in my heart that I will see him soon again, that he will walk into my ancientness in the same manner he walked into my youth.
I like anything dragonborn :-)
It goes good with chili powder. Real spicy meats. ^-^
I mention it not to recommend it instead, but because I was surprised to see that I was apparently more in sync with WotC than I realized. The Shifter Racial Paragon Path (Moonstalker) is almost certainly exactly what you are looking for, and went for almost identical themes to the ideas I had come up with:-Knock enemies prone;
-Gain bonuses to tear apart prone enemies;
-Turn into a wolf, which lets you quickly move about the battle.Combine that paragon path with druid, and I think you'll have a very good flavor for a lycanthrope. And the build works well - a Shifter gets the perfect stats for going druid/moonstalker!
Wow, cool... thanks for the heads-up.
I was kinda sad because I wanted to play a Chinese dragon style dragon-born monk, then found monk isn't in the PH2... then, thought of the shifter-druid-representing-a-werewolf idea, and got excited... then was, like, 'Darn, what if it doesn't work. Can I dare get my hopes up yet?
No, you're talking about half-orcs :-)
No way, man. Long-pork and ork-pork? That's so not Kosher!
Initially, the ideas I had after reading it were a Shifter Warden and a human druid, but after WW D&D Day, I'd also like to give a Tiefling Invoker a shot. I liked the one I played in it, but would like to tweak and alter it more to my style - and that suprised be, cause initially Invoker didn't wow me, but after playing one, I ended up liking it.
Initially, the ideas I had after reading it were a Shifter Warden and a human druid, but after WW D&D Day, I'd also like to give a Tiefling Invoker a shot. I liked the one I played in it, but would like to tweak and alter it more to my style - and that suprised be, cause initially Invoker didn't wow me, but after playing one, I ended up liking it.That's good to hear! Of all the classes in the PHB2, Invoker was the only one that didn't really have anything that caught my eye. I was hoping its uniqueness might better manifest in play, so hearing some confirmation on that is quite welcome.
Me too! It was the only class of the ones in PH2 I barely skimmed. Which was pretty ironic, since it was the first I played. But, in play, it has a nice feel, even though I didn't like some of the feat and power selections that the pregen had. So, now I've got ideas percolating for one. I guess it goes to show that just reading stuff doesn't give the full feel for it, you've gotta use it, or maybe just see it, in play.
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Reading the PHB2 I feel that a lot of the Invokers flavour is in it's mechanics & selection of prayers and not it's actual description, which is a little weird.
I normally play (When I play) pretty normal characters but I rolled up a drow(dhampyr) Invoker of the Raven Queen for fun.
LOL
If any of my player brought that concept to the table....
We are currently wrapping up Pyramid of Shadows, and we'll probably switch characters after that. But right now we are playing:
Gibby - Gnome Wizard (that's me)
Brie - Halfling Rogue
Asterid - Minotaur Barbarian
Lazybones - Dragonborn Warlord
Darius - Halfling Paladin
It's quite an interesting mix, of races, classes and personalities.
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We are currently wrapping up Pyramid of Shadows, and we'll probably switch characters after that. But right now we are playing:
Gibby - Gnome Wizard (that's me)
Brie - Halfling Rogue
Asterid - Minotaur Barbarian
Lazybones - Dragonborn Warlord
Darius - Halfling PaladinIt's quite an interesting mix, of races, classes and personalities.
I'm so upset.
Last night was "reset" night where we could all reset our characters with the new PHB.
We came THISCLOSE to getting a gnome barbarian, but she chickened out at the last minute. Bah. I think that would be hilarious! It would be like Yoda, only with woad. Yeah!!!
We are currently wrapping up Pyramid of Shadows, and we'll probably switch characters after that. But right now we are playing:
Gibby - Gnome Wizard (that's me)
Brie - Halfling Rogue
Asterid - Minotaur Barbarian
Lazybones - Dragonborn Warlord
Darius - Halfling PaladinIt's quite an interesting mix, of races, classes and personalities.
I'm so upset.
Last night was "reset" night where we could all reset our characters with the new PHB.
We came THISCLOSE to getting a gnome barbarian, but she chickened out at the last minute. Bah. I think that would be hilarious! It would be like Yoda, only with woad. Yeah!!!
Woada is a great female gnome barbarian name.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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One of the players in my 4th Ed. game decided to switch out his dragonborn warlord (in a party that had 2 clerics already) for an elf avenger. He was zipping and teleporting all over the board (though he ran into a little trouble with a ghosty undead and a golem-type creature that both had resistance to being pulled or pushed or slid).
One of my players had his paladin die last session in our Second Darkness campaign. He's opted to make an elf avenger as well. We'll see it in play this coming weekend, but I'm looking forward to it. I think it's going to be a great fit for the campaign.
My husband is building a Deva Invoker and also a Shifter Warden. (He's trying to decide between the Warden and a Human Swordmage, but we have to wait for Arcane Power for him to be sure which he prefers.)
I'm building a Deva Shaman. I expected the bard to be the class I'd most want to play, but the Shaman has really wowed me.
Of course, since the Character Builder doesn't update until tomorrow, the FIRST character the new book has inspired me to build is a drow rogue. ;)
For me, personally, I statted up a few level one characters to see how they would look.
Deva Avenger: I am guessing that this one will be done to death, but I really do like it.
Half-Elf Bard: Multiclassing into warlock and taking a sorcerer at-will as an encounter. All sorts of blasty bits to balance his melee skills. Could be a lot of fun.
Razorclaw Shifter Druid: This becomes less of a controller and more of a striker/controller hybrid.
I will probably stat out a level one Deva Invoker to see how that goes. Since I DM and don't do a lot of RPGA stuff, it may be a while until any of these see play.
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I'm actually quite distraught at how unfeasible it is in 4E, because of the terribly thought-out rules for Small characters. Which were bad to begin with in the PHB1, but WotC clearly hasn't even remembered they exist or that they should provide support for them, such as by actually providing weapons with the Small keyword, or not making classes that require only using Two-Handed Weapons.
Congratulations, Gnome Barbarian! You can't use three of the four Barbarian At-Wills! Enjoy! :(
That said, they could actually be a ton of fun with a small bit of houseruling (either throwing out the Small issue entirely, or saying that using a one-handed weapon in two-handed will let you use the powers requiring a two-handed weapon.) Having a crazed berzerker that comes charging out of nowhere, and then vanishes when you hit it - now that's scary!
You'd think that a versatile weapon would fully qualify as a two-hander in the hands of a Small critter. That might be something we houserule. We were joking how we would affix one of those orange "little guy here" bike flags to it ... and you would see a hedge with a little orange flag bouncing along and seeing all these people jumping up, holding their shins ...
EDIT: Interesting Observation #1.
The update to the Character Generator is out. As a lark ... Gnome Barbarian! When I got to the equipment and selected "auto-buy", it gave me a longsword, which was listed as a two-hander.
I am really torn and keep coming up with a new idea most everyday. And, as usual, I just can't help but multiclass.
Top of my list is: shadar kai wild sorcerer multiclass into rogue. He'll be dagger-focused and just unleash carnage - mostly directed towards the bad guys.
However, my first campaign coming up is with my kids (where I am running a DMPC to round out the group and give a little nudge when necessary). So I'm loathe to have a PC that inflicts a lot of collateral damage on my kids' PCs when they are still learning the system.
So my other ideas range from the still cool:
"Eladrin" avenger maybe multiclass into two-weapon ranger. Inspired by Nightcrawler as in the X-Men Legends video games. Would use eladrin stats but probably be more tiefling in appearance. Heavy focus on teleportation and two-weapon fighting.
To somewhat silly (I am DMing for my young kids, mind you):
Goblin avenger. He tried stealing a magic axe but is now under its control while it seeks vengeance against the enemies of its god. I just picture this little goblin with a look of absolute "I don't want to be here!" terror on his face while the axe makes him lunge and attack.
Or very silly:
Nigel de'Tufnel - hard rockin' half elf bard. Although my kids won't get the jokes, I really wanted to have a bard with low slung guitar, and make a daily power called "Turn it to 11". But my youngest wants to play a deva bard, so they are thankfully spared having to experience Nigel.
That's good to hear! Of all the classes in the PHB2, Invoker was the only one that didn't really have anything that caught my eye. I was hoping its uniqueness might better manifest in play, so hearing some confirmation on that is quite welcome.
Looking at the mechanics, I wasn't real into the class either, but playing one at the Gameday this past weekend, I was completely sold. It was a heck of a lot of fun to play. Pushing and sliding multiple enemies into a hazardous area, locking down a quickling with a steady barrage of slows - good stuff. So of course, I'm debating an invoker now, but we'll see.
]You'd think that a versatile weapon would fully qualify as a two-hander in the hands of a Small critter. That might be something we houserule. We were joking how we would affix one of those orange "little guy here" bike flags to it ... and you would see a hedge with a little orange flag bouncing along and seeing all these people jumping up, holding their shins ...
I haven't played enough to get into all of the rule minutia, but from looking at the PHB, I would certainly read it that way.
A Small character such as a halfling must use a versatile weapon two-handed and doesn’t deal extra damage.
Sure sounds like versatile weapon + small PC = two-handed weapon.
But the idea of a gnome barbarian is certainly a fun image. Crap, another PC idea! :)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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First I made a Razorclaw Shifter Druid, who is really fun to play.
Then I made a Dragonborn Bard, who I gave a Skull Mask to, and I'm going to have him roll around giving the Humongous' speech from The Road Warrior. "Just Walk Away"
Lastly, I've made a human Shaman, who I reflavored to take all the Primalyness out of him, and make him into more of a spooky, pseudo-necormancerish, delving into dark secrets and summoning the spirits of the dead to do his bidding kind of dude.
I think I might make an Invoker next.
I played a druid back when they had to fight other members of the order to advance, I LOVED that character and was allways deeply saddend when I could not find some open sky to call down some bolts. Before I have rolled upa few characters but was pretty happy to hand them out to my players but now... I really really want to play the druid. I find the shifters a little, well, furryish but I might go gnome or some other fey as a wise caster type. I could also see going human with a wild northman warrior who calls on the spirits to fight, maybe even with a barbarian multiclass element. Maybe I'll call him Logan Ninefingers :)
Ok I have to go play with the char builder!
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The first character I was inspired to build was a Deva Avenger, but that didn't fit with the rest of my party so then I was inspired to create a gnome feypact warlock. I've never played a gnome or a warlock before, but somehow the combo just seemed to fit. Also the flavor has changed enough to make them interesting to me.
]You'd think that a versatile weapon would fully qualify as a two-hander in the hands of a Small critter. That might be something we houserule. We were joking how we would affix one of those orange "little guy here" bike flags to it ... and you would see a hedge with a little orange flag bouncing along and seeing all these people jumping up, holding their shins ...I haven't played enough to get into all of the rule minutia, but from looking at the PHB, I would certainly read it that way.
A Small character such as a halfling must use a versatile weapon two-handed and doesn’t deal extra damage.Sure sounds like versatile weapon + small PC = two-handed weapon.
But the idea of a gnome barbarian is certainly a fun image. Crap, another PC idea! :)
Meh, gnome no good - you be halfling.
Has anyone had much experience playing a barbarian? They seem to do a ruck of damage but I'm wondering what the balancing factors are.
They do, do alot of damage, but their AC is pitiful, especially for a melee class
I play in two groups, and each has a barbarian. They stay pretty banged up, but both players love them, and throw themselves with reckless abandon into any fight.
Has anyone had much experience playing a barbarian? They seem to do a ruck of damage but I'm wondering what the balancing factors are.
It has also been noted that while they seem to rock all kinds of insanity at heroic tier, they start to suck a bit in epic tier. I dont think this is a design feature however, and my evidence is based solely on hearsay.
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Meh, gnome no good - you be halfling.]You'd think that a versatile weapon would fully qualify as a two-hander in the hands of a Small critter. That might be something we houserule. We were joking how we would affix one of those orange "little guy here" bike flags to it ... and you would see a hedge with a little orange flag bouncing along and seeing all these people jumping up, holding their shins ...I haven't played enough to get into all of the rule minutia, but from looking at the PHB, I would certainly read it that way.
A Small character such as a halfling must use a versatile weapon two-handed and doesn’t deal extra damage.Sure sounds like versatile weapon + small PC = two-handed weapon.
But the idea of a gnome barbarian is certainly a fun image. Crap, another PC idea! :)
Meh. Haflings are too big for the gnomish barbarian fun.
Has anyone had much experience playing a barbarian? They seem to do a ruck of damage but I'm wondering what the balancing factors are.
Our Dragonborn Rage Barbarian gets beat on like he were the Detroit Lions. (OK, not that bad...)
Using the "charops" standard of 16, 16, 12, 12, 10, 8 as a starting point...
If you're a Rage barbarian, you need STR and CON. You probably want to drop the 12s on DEX and CHA, so your AC, REF and WILL defenses blow chunks.
If you're a Thane barbarian, you need STR and CHA, so the 12s go on CON and DEX. Again, your AC sucks, as does your REF. Will's pretty good, but your HPs and surges are lower.
You can get the AC up by spending the feats to get to Scale to help the AC, but that's a trade off too. (3 feats to get Scale Specialization and until you get there, you're -1 move, which sucks for a class that's supposed to get into the thick of things as fast as possible to bust out the Daily Rage as soon as you possibly can. Plus you can't spend those feats on other things.)
For a Gnome Barbarian, you'd obviously go Thane to take advantage of the CHA boost, and use INT instead of DEX for the AC. I'd probably take 16, 14, 14, 13, 10, 8 array, and go for more flexability/versatility instead of pure optimization.
It seems like a character that could lead to great fun in game, I wish I had thought of it.
Has anyone had much experience playing a barbarian? They seem to do a ruck of damage but I'm wondering what the balancing factors are.Our Dragonborn Rage Barbarian gets beat on like he were the Detroit Lions. (OK, not that bad...)
Using the "charops" standard of 16, 16, 12, 12, 10, 8 as a starting point...
If you're a Rage barbarian, you need STR and CON. You probably want to drop the 12s on DEX and CHA, so your AC, REF and WILL defenses blow chunks.
If you're a Thane barbarian, you need STR and CHA, so the 12s go on CON and DEX. Again, your AC sucks, as does your REF. Will's pretty good, but your HPs and surges are lower.
You can get the AC up by spending the feats to get to Scale to help the AC, but that's a trade off too. (3 feats to get Scale Specialization and until you get there, you're -1 move, which sucks for a class that's supposed to get into the thick of things as fast as possible to bust out the Daily Rage as soon as you possibly can. Plus you can't spend those feats on other things.)
For a Gnome Barbarian, you'd obviously go Thane to take advantage of the CHA boost, and use INT instead of DEX for the AC. I'd probably take 16, 14, 14, 13, 10, 8 array, and go for more flexability/versatility instead of pure optimization.
It seems like a character that could lead to great fun in game, I wish I had thought of it.
Isn't scale armor considered heavy? If so you lose out on Barbarian Agility.
Isn't scale armor considered heavy? If so you lose out on Barbarian Agility.
Agreed, you miss out on that class feature. Does it scale up per tier like the Avenger one does? I honestly don't remember, and I don't have the book here to check.
Let's assume it does.
At L1, Hide is +3 AC, with BarbAgil +2, that's a +5. Scale has +7 AC, but requires two feats at this point. With a 14 DEX/INT you get the same AC, which is pretty well doable.
at L30, the best Hide + Enchantment is +11, if BarbAgil +4, then you get +15. But best Scale + Enchantment is +19. So, you have to get to a 18 DEX/INT to hit the same AC. If you start at a 14, you'll get a 16 from 11 and 21 boots. But you have to put in 2 more +1s somewhere. Which lowers your secondary attribute (CON/CHA) which lowers your class powers and other stuff (and Will Def if you're a Thane).
If BarbAgil doesn't scale, then it's +13 vs +19, and you've got to get a 22 in DEX/INT, which might be possible for a multiclassed half-orc build shafting the secondary stuff for more DEX, but isn't really likely. (of course, now I have the idea for a 1/2 orc Barbarian/Warden multiclass...). You might be able to do your Gnome/Halfling Barbarian this way too. You get a bonus to CHA which'll help the Thane stuff, and the Bonus to INT or DEX respectively to keep your AC higher. Hmmm...
So, For the cost of a couple of feats (chain, scale) you can raise your AC, and say "screw it" to raising your DEX/INT combo. Your REF will suck more, but that's what "Epic Reflexes" is for. And, this is a personal opinion, I think the armor properties for Scale armors are much cooler than that for Hide, although that'll hopefully change with AV2.
I think that's part of what the problem with Barbarians at high level is. We've only had the Rage build, which is CON based, which means that we've got low overall Defenses, and since the Barbarian does a ton of damage, he's priority target one for the bad guys. Low Defenses + Priority Target == Buttload of damage taken; which can make the barbarian look bad (since he's having to call for help for healing, or spending actions to Second Wind, or picking himself up off the ground after getting knocked to 0)
Barb Agility is +1 ac/ref at lvl 1, increase +1 per tier. So it is good for getting some double duty of it. However getting the next step down is chain and I dont think it counts for heavy, but I cannot remember. So not a bad option there.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Chain is considered Heavy (Cloth/Leather/Hide=Light, Chain/Scale/Plate=Heavy). I find it annoying from a flavor standpoint, I mean, Hide just doesn't fit in my head with more urban/civilized characters, but I find myself picking it up when its the best choice mechanically speaking. Mostly I just pretend its "light chain" or a "chain shirt" or whatever and call it good, but I do miss having more armor options.
We threw a Half-Elf Barbarian in with our Crimson Throne group when the preview article came out, and I put him up to Chain almost immediately. His Reflex Blows, but he's way fun to play. We don't have a defender in the group, so he ends up being our semi-tank, and has been working pretty well so far.
Oh, Pressing Strike is the coolest At Will Evar. Shift 2 squares, through enemies, and then push them around? Sweet.
We came THISCLOSE to getting a gnome barbarian, but she chickened out at the last minute. Bah. I think that would be hilarious! It would be like Yoda, only with woad. Yeah!!!
One of our players wants to play a minjataur barbarian (that's a midget ninja minotaur), but our DM wouldn't let her. Oh well.