I'm a longtime fan of those Robert E. Howard monstrosities, the Little People (basically a degenerate race dwelling belowground who engages in cannibalism and stealthy murder against the surface-people, based on some late Victorian ideas about the origins of fairy mythology) and was wondering just what combinatin of race, classes, and location might work best for a Golarion adaptation.
My idea so far was to use the Jerren from 3rd Ed's Book of Vile Darkness, maybe adding in the short-range telepathy from the FR Ghostwise halflings to help them stay silent.
Other ideas I had were the skulks, or maybe just really determined and nasty goblins. If anyone else has any ideas on how to handle this, please share them. I'd love to hear some outside ideas.
Thank you.
Well, it depends on how much you're wanting to drastically alter the race from the way its written. Personally, I don't like the idea of degenerate halflings <gollum> as a race, but you may. The skulk is bigger and seems too organized and murderous. For my money, I'd be tempted on starting with the goblin as a base creature, and take them in a more fey direction. But then I particularly like both the Paizo re-envisioning of goblins and their more fey origin in folklore. Why not tack the ghostwise and/or the chameleon stuff onto the goblin? Since I haven't read all of Howard, I don't know your inspiration unfortunately, so maybe the skulk is closer to your inspiration (except size?).
Heh...you're back to underground cannibals...so why aren't they ghouls? ; )
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Derro seem like the ideal choice, IMO. Perhaps combine them with Meenlocks from the old Fiend Folio and have them kidnap surface-dwellers and transform them into Meenlocks, so that their slaves can never 'escape' as they are no longer human (elven, dwarven, whatever).
Alternately, the Dark Stalkers and Dark Creepers make a really cool underground race.
The Dark Ones...can't help but notice the strong Fiend Folio trend of the thread so far.
... a degenerate race dwelling belowground who engages in cannibalism and stealthy murder against the surface-people...
Derro. Definitely Derro.
I thought of jermlaine and meenlocks.
Leprechauns. GAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
Grimlocks and morlocks.
and whiskers on kittens...
In Gygax's Sea of Dust, the old, degenerate remnants of the ancient Sueloise people are derro, so you've definitely got precedent on your side there. Then again, it might be fun to stat up a new race altogether:
Why are there no evil halflings?
We have Dark Elves, Grey Dwarves, and Spriggian Gnomes, but no dark halfling race.
Maybe something based off faerie lore, as leprechauns were once said to be kin of an Halfling/faerie paring.
I know! We could have evil individual halflings without having another evil race!
I'm a benighted kobold!
Why are there no evil halflings?
Sure there are. They're called "halflings".
Golarion's halflings basically replaced dogs as man's best friend. As degrading as it sounds, they do walk alongside humans, are found where humans are found, adapt to human ways...
So when humans are all knights in shining armour, they'll be the squires (and, of course, knights themselves). Where human lives in harmony with nature, you'll have halfling rangers scouting for human druids.
Where human does evil, so does halfling.
We have no deep humans. So we need no grey halflings, either.
So KaeYoss,
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Derro, dark creepers, the lurkers in the light (a new monster in the upcoming book, "The Great Beyond"), and even spriggans or evil gnomes would work well.
Lurkers in the light sound interesting - not sure if they work as their name implies, but a creature who relies on light to provide stealth instead of darkness would make for a unique twist. I seem to remember a lion creature that was invisible in full light, but visible in shadows, which foiled adventurers who always carry light with them in dark dungeons.
So many of James' posts I get almost nothing out of. It's as if, after he says a word like "upcoming," the sound of my salivary glands kicking into overdrive drowns out the sound of anything else.
So KaeYoss,
** spoiler omitted **
Namuhs?
... a degenerate race dwelling belowground who engages in cannibalism and stealthy murder against the surface-people...Derro. Definitely Derro.
Okay, but to me it's more of a personal thing. I see the Little People as being primitives, while to me the Derro (as evilly cool as they are) are more along the lines of 'decadent survivors of a lost civilization', who should be surrounded by weird technology and magic.
That said I've yet to get a copy of Into the Darklands, so it may well be that the Golarion Derro are my best bet in the setting. I just don't have enough info on them yet.
I know! We could have evil individual halflings without having another evil race!
The Jerren aren't so much an evil race as they are just a culture of very depraved, very malicious halflings. Though I agree about the 'evil mirror-image race' being a bit overdone.
When i read the original post i also thought about the Derroes.
But then i wondered... What about svirfnebli, the dark gnomes ?
Considering how much feyish gnomes have become, but still have connection to earth and underground, a dark reflection of the cute little buggers is interesting.
One thing I always liked about the svirneblin was that they were underdark gnomes, but not the "evil mirror image" race. Hmm...I was thinking about the pech. The D&D pech are not open, but they are mythological creatures and therefore available for reinterpretation.
EDIT: I stand somewhat corrected. The pech is yet another creature saved for us by the Tome of Horrors. Still...I hate that illustration.
One thing I always liked about the svirneblin was that they were underdark gnomes, but not the "evil mirror image" race. Hmm...I was thinking about the pech. The D&D pech are not open, but they are mythological creatures and therefore available for reinterpretation.
It is true the idea of a subterranean race not being evil is interesting.
Unfortunately, their existence doesn't really make sense.Living in the same environment than the drow, duergar, derroes and other atrocities, the nice little svirfnebli don't stand a chance. They should have become extinct a long time ago.
Another option : The Meazel.
I love these since the old 1st Edition Fiend Folio.
The idea of a subterranean species not being evil as the others is interesting, indeed.
Unfortunaltely it doesn't really make sense.
Living in the same environment than the drow, duergar, derroes and other atrocities, the nice little svirfnebli don't have a chance of survival against them.
They should be extinct.
Another option : The Meazel.
I love these since the 1st edition Fiend Folio, partly due to the illustration.
Oh, I think it makes as much sense as a world where humans aren't extinct in spite of orc hordes, lycanthropes, vampires, bugbears, hordes of assorted undead, (contents of your fav. monster books).
Somebody somewhere did a statistical study that disproved the existence of vampires by showing how quickly they'd extinguish the human race over a given period of time. So there's got to be some explanatory account given for circumstances such as the survival of non-evil underdark races. (And they're some people on these boards who, properly motivated, could provide such verisimilitude savers.)
Edit: I've never used the meazels. I'm not sure if that's because I didn't like the name, or because they had the same hair stylists as the gith. You ever use them?
Agreed, agreed, i was just musing.
If we try to make things realistic in a game universe, we all know how it can turn us crazy.
In a fantasy world, if something is not realistic it actually makes sense. ;)
It always comes down to what bugs me/you, what we can't suspend disbelief over. It's a funny thing and very personal. I remember the vampire study gave me a good laugh, but I just never worried about monsters statistically--of course the human race is in danger of going extinct! That's what heroes and adventuring parties are for!
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Oh, I think it makes as much sense as a world where humans aren't extinct in spite of orc hordes, lycanthropes, vampires, bugbears, hordes of assorted undead, (contents of your fav. monster books).
Somebody somewhere did a statistical study that disproved the existence of vampires by showing how quickly they'd extinguish the human race over a given period of time. So there's got to be some explanatory account given for circumstances such as the survival of non-evil underdark races. (And they're some people on these boards who, properly motivated, could provide such verisimilitude savers.)
Edit: I've never used the meazels. I'm not sure if that's because I didn't like the name, or because they had the same hair stylists as the gith. You ever use them?
Unless they did the stable of blood donors ala Vampire...
If you only partially drained 6 humans a night, had 42 humans as stock, this would give you the time to regenerate the pint of blood you lost due to having it removed weekly...
Meazels rocked, Fiend Folio was always my favorite 1e monster book, and of course the one that got stolen out of my locker in high school...
But then i wondered... What about svirfnebli, the dark gnomes ?
Deep gnomes, not dark gnomes. And they're still not evil.
Unless they did the stable of blood donors ala Vampire...
If you only partially drained 6 humans a night, had 42 humans as stock, this would give you the time to regenerate the pint of blood you lost due to having it removed weekly...
That's assuming that vamps can't live off of animal blood.
OT now but when I'm using vampires, I play it as: they can live from animal blood, but it's unsatisfying. And many new"born" vampires don't make it past their first few weeks simply because they descend into a feral, predatory mindset that combines with a death wish to make them careless and self-destructive.
Which means that the vampires who last past the first few years are either very smart or very, very cautious.
Hmm...I was thinking about the pech.
Guide to the Darklands revealed that derro are degenerate pech.
Ah... Did it reveal what the pech were?
Fey creatures that called the deepest tunnels home.
Deep gnomes, not dark gnomes. And they're still not evil.
Nothing prevents you to make them dark.
Or evil.
Fey creatures that called the deepest tunnels home.
That would be the knockers.
Would they then be Deep Dark Gnomes? ;)
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(OK, so pech are basically the same. Thanks.)