In a campaign focused more on capturing foes rather than killing are there any classes that would be especially useful ? The beguiler and shadowcaster both spring to mind as they have nonlethal spells (or mysteries or whatever they're called) and various abilities that hinder and degrade your opponenties abilities rather than do damage . But neither of them really fit the law enforcement type theme we're going to to working with .
What else is there ? Monk I suppose - they don't have to inflict lethal damage with unarmed strikes right ?
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Actually, I always saw a lawful good beguiler as a very good law-enforcement type. You can still be lawful and use tricky tactics, and they have so many spells to subdue opponents without hurting them (in fact, with my current beguiler I can't actually do any damage but I consistently take large groups of enemies out of the fight). Alternatively, a spellcaster with the (now, I'm not entirely sure where I saw this, I may just be delirious from the flu) metamagic feat that makes your spells deal non-lethal damage with no increase in level. I could see a warmage like this, but the only problem is that it increases the casting time since they are spontaneous casters.
A Ranger/Bloodhound would be very good at this. Again, I'm not sure about the accuracy of this comment, but I do believe that after they mark someone they can "bring 'em back alive", making it so that they do only non-lethal damage to them.
Merciful weapons do non-lethal and +1d6 damage when doing non-lethal.
Also, a beguiler would make a terribly effective detective (I rhymed) with their mix of divination, illusion and enchantment. Detect Secret Doors, Detect Thoughts, and so on would be their standard tactics, as well as hiding while invisible to eavesdrop. Think Spy/Detective, and you have a lawful good beguiler
Nonlethal Substitution (Complete Arcane) or Subdual Substitution (Divine SRD) are the basically the same feat. Remember it could be a real possibility for a law enforcement group to issue metamagic rods of Nonlethal Substitution.
On the take down side, remember almost all lethal melee attacks can do nonlethal damage by taking a -4 to hit. Once you do a bit of nonlethal damage you can switch back to lethal because reducing their HP total will KO them just as fast as doing their full HP in nonlethal, if you are having problems hitting them.
Example, A bandit has a total of 10 hp. I hit the bandit with my longsword for 1d8+1 nonlethal damage (5). Then again next round for 5 lethal, he becomes staggered (non-lethal = current HP). One more point and he'll be unconscious.
Nonlethal Substitution (Complete Arcane) or Subdual Substitution (Divine SRD) are the basically the same feat. Remember it could be a real possibility for a law enforcement group to issue metamagic rods of Nonlethal Substitution.
On the take down side, remember almost all lethal melee attacks can do nonlethal damage by taking a -4 to hit. Once you do a bit of nonlethal damage you can switch back to lethal because reducing their HP total will KO them just as fast as doing their full HP in nonlethal, if you are having problems hitting them.
Example, A bandit has a total of 10 hp. I hit the bandit with my longsword for 1d8+1 nonlethal damage (5). Then again next round for 5 lethal, he becomes staggered (non-lethal = current HP). One more point and he'll be unconscious.
I've always found that mechanic to be a bit odd . But while we're on the subject , if you have a mix of lethal and non-lethal damage and you go to negative HP are you still losing a HP each round and making stablize checks ? If not it seems like you could be a jerk and do 1 point of nonlethal damage to yourself every day to make sure you didn't die as easily .
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I've always found that mechanic to be a bit odd . But while we're on the subject , if you have a mix of lethal and non-lethal damage and you go to negative HP are you still losing a HP each round and making stablize checks ? If not it seems like you could be a jerk and do 1 point of nonlethal damage to yourself every day to make sure you didn't die as easily.
Just because you're knocked unconscious doesn't mean you can't just as easily be the subject of a finishing blow(coup de gras, area effect, or so forth), weighted and tossed into a river, or simply captured.
Even better, the guy who knocked you out could decide to drop down next to you and use your body as cover against any ranged combatants who are shooting at him.
Just because you're not technically dying doesn't mean you're safe.
Anyway, there are several ways to make capturing foes easier, the methods already mentioned are great, you can also incorporate a Feat called Improved Subdual* for non-magic users, then there's the alternate combat track for Rangers called Bounty Hunter that I created for my game.
* Improved Subual
Requiments: INT 12
Benefit: You may use a lethal weapon to deal non-lethal damage at no penalty.
Bounty Hunter
Level 2: Exotic Weapon Proficiency-Bolas, Improved Subdual(no penalty when dealing non-lethal damage with lethal weapons), Gather Information becomes a class skill.
Level 6: Exotic Weapon Proficiency-Net or Lasso(choose one), +(½ Ranger level) Bonus to the Gather Information(A Level 7 Ranger with this adds a 3 to his roll on Gather Information checks).
Level 11: Manacles as Flail(if holding Manacles, may use them as a Flail with no penalties, but a natural 1 on the attack roll ruins the Manacles), Favored Mark(add the highest Favored Enemy bonus the Ranger possesses to his current Bounty mark)
I know the BH track seems to get more stuff, and technically it does, but it has the downside that all those things it gets are much less versatile than the other combat tracks.
Hope this helps.
Outside of rules and class or abilities mechanics, why not just allow a player to neutralize an opponent ?
It's up to the DM to determine a reasonable penalty to hit (-4) in non-lethal damage or to avoid killing, putting the target unconscious or or in negative HP but stable.
No big deal. This shouldn't need a class ability or a feat.
The DM should play with the players, not against them, and allow such options with flexibility.
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Outside of rules and class or abilities mechanics, why not just allow a player to neutralize an opponent ?
It's up to the DM to determine a reasonable penalty to hit (-4) in non-lethal damage or to avoid killing, putting the target unconscious or or in negative HP but stable.
No big deal. This shouldn't need a class ability or a feat.The DM should play with the players, not against them, and allow such options with flexibility.
There are already rules for taking a -4 to deal non-lethal damage with a weapon that normally doesn't. And if your non-lethal damage exceeds you current hitpoints, you are unconscious. So (as somebody already mentioned) if you hit someone down to 5 HP and then deal 6 non-lethal damage, they will be rendered unconscious and not in danger of dying. Remember though, non-lethal damage heals at a rate of 1/hour/level, so you might want to hit them another time if you're going to be transporting said person.
Correct, it is a good idea to give them a solid thwack every so often.
Lets give a better visual example of how Non-Lethal damage plays with Lethal/HP. Assuming a 10th level character.
1.
Hit Points: 100/100
Lethal___: 0
Non-Lethal: 0
2.
Hit Points: 80/100
Lethal___: 20
Non-Lethal: 0
3.
Hit Points: 80/100
Lethal___: 20
Non-Lethal: 20
4.
Hit Points: 60/100
Lethal___: 40
Non-Lethal: 40
5.
Hit Points: 60/100
Lethal___: 40
Non-Lethal: 80
__Unconcious, not dying.
__2 hours till recovery (10 non-lethal healed per hour).
On my character sheets, I track my hit points beginning on the left (going right), and my non-lethal damage begining on the right (going left) and fall unconscious when they meet in the middle. I use this technique when I DM and when I'm a PC.
Thanks for all the ideas folks
On my character sheets, I track my hit points beginning on the left (going right), and my non-lethal damage begining on the right (going left) and fall unconscious when they meet in the middle. I use this technique when I DM and when I'm a PC.
I track lethal damage/current hp going down the left margin and non-lethal (subdual!) down the right margin. When the right is higher than the left, unconscious.
Director of Narrative
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On my character sheets, I track my hit points beginning on the left (going right), and my non-lethal damage begining on the right (going left) and fall unconscious when they meet in the middle. I use this technique when I DM and when I'm a PC.I track lethal damage/current hp going down the left margin and non-lethal (subdual!) down the right margin. When the right is higher than the left, unconscious.
That too!
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Director of Narrative
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As for the OP, I vote for a disarmer type with a dose or two of "drow poison" (or whatever you want to call a tranquilizer). I think that'd be fun.
Also, I think a monk would be a good choice. You could always pull the bouncer thing and just subdue the enemy and let the other guys figure out what to do with them.
It can be kinda risky because of the amount of damage it can deal; but I've had a lot of luck and fun with the Harpoon detailed in the Stormwrack book. It's a thrown weapon (damage: 1d10) that has a range increment of 30 feet and has a rope attached. If it hits, the target must succeed on a reflex save (DC = 10 + the damage dealt) or the harpoon becomes lodged in it. A harpooned creature moves at half speed and cannot run or charge and its movement is restricted by the length of the rope.
I once played a Goliath Fighter And used Monkey Grip and Brutal Throw to toss Huge Harpoons at opponents. I had two of them on the ends of sixty foot ropes with each rope tied to my waist. It made catching and reeling in baddies really easy…. But I did unintentionally drop a few with the damage I was putting out.
Put the ‘Mercy’ magic quality on a harpoon and you’ll be pretty adept at taking ‘em in alive. Just remember it’s an exotic weapon.
I once played a Goliath Fighter And used Monkey Grip and Brutal Throw to toss Huge Harpoons at opponents.
Technically powerful build and monkey grip do not stack.
oh snaps! fo real? Where did you read that? I just checked the powerful build description in races of stone and the monkey grip feat in complete adventurer and neither really allude to any non-stacking.
Specifically, Monkey Grip allows you to use weapons one size category larger than yourself, not what you could normally wield. Becuase a goliath is still a medium creature, Monkey Grip would only allow them to wield large weapons, which Powerful build already does.