Hey guys I have a question regarding inspire courage. Now I just finished a game in which there was an argument over what the range is on Inspire courage. Now according to the Pathfinder rules the song has to only be "perceived" (Heard) which in my mind means only has to be heard. I also checked both previous editions of the D&D rules (3.0 & 3.5 I figured AD&D was not worth it.) and they also listed no range on inspire courage only that it must be heard. Now my DM was ruling that it was only affecting up to 30ft like the Inspire competency song. To be honest the only having to hear the song is what I have always remember it being played as but for some reason it has been starting to become an issue.
Now some people in the group were saying that if it only needs to be heard to be able to get the bonuses that it is to powerful, and i feel that the ruling of only 30 feet is kind of limiting the bards overall usefulness in combat since the inspire courage is a huge part of what a bard can do for the party in that situation, aside from hold person or fascinate to just name a few. I mean a bard cannot go toe to toe with much with out getting punched in the face quite hard, and it's more of an RP utility class. Myself being a huge fan of role play, really like the class and what if offers and allows me to do.
I would greatly appreciate your input on this since it seems like for me it will be quite an issue as I hope this toon will live long enough to see his mid teens.
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I think it should have a max range, regardless of whether it officially does currently, simply to avoid this kind of issue, but it should be potentially longer than 30 feet. Bless is the spell with the closest match and that has a 50' radius.
On the other hand, I've hardly ever seen any group insist on a Listen check, for the bard's allies, and I suspect, if they did, they may be unpleasantly surprised by how often someone fails to feel the benefit, especially once you factor in the noise of battle, closed doors and distance (and the fact that half the party will have never put any ranks in Perception, since 'that's the Rogue's job').
There's also the problem that the tactical situation changes round by round; someone who was close to the bard, when he commenced inspiring, may now have rushed to the other side of the room, and engaged several foes, who are now hammering on his shield.
YAAAAHHHH!!!
BANG! BANG!
DIE, DIE, DIE!!!!!
KABOOOMM!!
Get over here, now!
Who's got the cure wand? Do you have the cure wand?
No, I've got the Vigor wand! I've already given you a dose, so it won't stack!
Schwing!
Schwing!
Well I don't have the cure wand; I thought it ran out of charges?
Clang!
No, I think we gave it to the bard?
WE KIILL YOU! WE KIILL YOU AND SKIIN YOU! MAKE DRUM FROM YOUR PRETTY FLESH!
Well get the bard over here now! What's he playing at, over there?
Who knows? He's just standing there, the useless bastard!
CLANG!
Gods; I hate him! He's always doing this, skiving off when there's fighting to be done! He'd better not expect a share of the loot!
KABOOOM!
<bard looks round, expectantly, with a beaming grin, to be met with the sullen stares of the other party members,standing over the bodies of their enemies.>
Any chance of you actually contributing to this mission?
Any time today would be fine!
Once you fail the Perception check, do you then lose the bonus?
Having lost the bonus, if you run back, do you roll Perception again, to have it kick back in?
Are the players going to have to wait for every one of the bard's allies to make a Perception check before declaring his action? Because that +1 or +2 could make or break the decision to declare Power Attack or Combat Expertise, right?
Having a fixed range may not be realistic, but does away with the need to recalculate Perception DCs for every combatant every round.
Maybe have the two options, and each group can pick one and stick with it.
You can have realism, or simplicity.
But if you pick realism, don't be surprised when your combats take twice as long.
I can see what you mean but if you have ever heard an opera singer sing in a non amplified setting you can easily hear him over the orchestra, even if the Tiphanie is going off. However I know the music is written to work with the singing, but it takes a lot to drown out a professional singer. Also the music only needs to be head it does not say that they need to understand the lyrics it's merely my performance. Which reminds me I need to invest more ranks in sing. And i mean I use a cross bow since my STR is only 8, so I do more then just sit there and rock out. And on more then one occasion I have been able to get the party out of some combat that would have gotten us killed.
I agree with the closed doors or other solids, and we have never to my knowledge allowed it to work through those. And yeah the bards str is in more RP then Combat.
The main differences there is that most venues and stages are designed to help project sound out toward the audience. It's quite another thing to try and project your voice out in the open. Trust me, I make my living basically yelling at children.
Looking at the perception(listen) DCs, during a pitched battle I would think a Bard trying to sing over a battle could do so reliably out to 50 feet or maybe 100 feet.
-10, as loud as the battle
+5, there is a battle going that's just as loud or louder.
+5, for out to 50 feet.
= DC 0 (you don't even have to try to listen)
Only roll one perception check and let it stand throughout the battle (or until the PC/NPC takes a standard action to reroll). That will make adjusting a little easier.
I'm not so sure about allies leaving and reentering range... Going back to 3.0 SRD I see that it used to take an ally a full round (not a full round action) of listening to the bard to gain the benefit. I'd be inclined to rule that an ally who leaves hearing range and comes back will regain the bonus of the bards music just as if they were in range to start with.