Does using this ring require proficentcy in Shields? As an ideal ring for wizards it would seem silly if it did.
It kind of skirts the issue. The penalty you get for NOT being proficient with a shield and using it is you gain a penalty on your attack rolls equal to the Armor Check Penalty of the shield. A Shield Ring doesn't have an Armor Check Penalty, so you don't need the proficiency to gain the benefit.
My question is: Can you cast Magical Vestments on a Shield Ring to give in an enhancement bonus to its shield bonus to AC?
I'm putting a note on my computer to remind me to check the books for these things when I wake up. I'll get back to you after that.
As of this moment, though, I would have to say that no, the ring does not require that you be prof with shields.
As for casting the spell to increase the bonus, I'd have to say right now that I don't think so.
As with the previous post I made tonight, however, I'm pretty much asleep right now and might be talking out my arse. That is why I'm leaving the note and will get back to you after I wake up.
After waking up and hitting the books, I have come to the following conclusions for your questions.
Do you need to be proficient with shields? No. Why not? Simple. It's not a shield. Training to use a shield is really little more than learning how to deal with it's weight. Aside from that, the rest is pretty much just hand-eye coordination. The ring creates a small Wall of Force that works as a shield would do to it's size and the fact that it is "strapped" to you.
Can you cast Magic Vestment to increase the AC bonus? No. Why not? Simple. It's not a shield. It is a small, circular Wall of Force that acts as a small shield do to how it is used. It's no more a shield than a door would be if you hid behind that. Of course, if your DM allows you to cast Magic Vestment on a door then by all means. The Wall of Force created by the ring is as much a shield as your flesh is a suit of armour to protect your insides.
Are you gonna cast Magic Vestment on your skin? No. Why not? Simple. It's not armour, at least not the kind of armour the spell refers to. Same applies to the Wall of Force created by the ring.
After waking up and hitting the books, I have come to the following conclusions for your questions.
Do you need to be proficient with shields? No. Why not? Simple. It's not a shield. Training to use a shield is really little more than learning how to deal with it's weight. Aside from that, the rest is pretty much just hand-eye coordination. The ring creates a small Wall of Force that works as a shield would do to it's size and the fact that it is "strapped" to you.
Can you cast Magic Vestment to increase the AC bonus? No. Why not? Simple. It's not a shield. It is a small, circular Wall of Force that acts as a small shield do to how it is used. It's no more a shield than a door would be if you hid behind that. Of course, if your DM allows you to cast Magic Vestment on a door then by all means. The Wall of Force created by the ring is as much a shield as your flesh is a suit of armour to protect your insides.
Are you gonna cast Magic Vestment on your skin? No. Why not? Simple. It's not armour, at least not the kind of armour the spell refers to. Same applies to the Wall of Force created by the ring.
All very fine points.
One question I have is: Why is the Ring of Shield 8500 gps and a Ring of Protection +2 8000 gps? A ring of Pro +2 is constant, and applies to touch AC. The Ring of Shield does not apply to touch AC and it requires the wielder to be awake and stuff. So why is it more expensive?
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I think the Ring of Shield should be a bracer; think about it, a normal shield is strapped to your arm, not your finger. A bracer that made a shield of force would just make more sense... and then it could stack with said ring of protection.
As for the cost increase, I cannot fathom a reasonable answer.
The price confuses me, as well. I tried making a custom item for a player some months ago which produced a shield effect. I tried both constant and charged forms of the item, setting the charges from one to three times per day. I compared it to a ring of force shield, it being the closest thing I could really come up with. In all cases, the price of my custom item was rediculously low compared to the ring of force shield, and my ring even provided twice the bonus as well as immunity to magic missile. Obviously the price of what I was designing needed to be upped, but I couldn't figure out to what extent because the price of the ring of force shield seems so whacky. In the end, I settled on another effect for the ring, saved myself some headache, but never arrived at an answer for the question.
The cost of a ring of force shield is based on the AC bonus (other) line of the magic item creation table (since it grants a shield bonus); IIRC, that's bonus x bonus x 2,500gp = 2 x 2 x 2,500 = 10,000 gp. The 15% reduction is probably because it needs to be activated and is not always on.
Note that because it's a shield bonus, it stacks with a ring of protection (which is a deflection bonus), but not with a physical shield or the shield spell.
Bonuses of the same type don't stack. As for the cost, I believe that the previous answer given by Dragonchess is sufficient. However, if one would like, I will open the books and give you the math for both pieces of equipment. In fact, I think I might just do that anyways. It will have to wait a few hours, atleast, as I have more pressing issues to deal with than simple math problems.
After spending some time with my nose buried in the PHB and DMG, I have found no reason for the cost of the Ring of Force Shield. It should, in fact, cost MORE than it does (atleast according to table 7-33 in the DMG). It has a continuous effect that can be activated and deactivated at will. I can find no reason for the 15% discount on the price. I have tried several other ways found on the table to see if maybe a different formula was used, but found nothing.
The best I can come up with for the 15% discount is the fact that it must be activated (although activation and deactivation are done at will as free actions), and the fact that since it provides a shield bonus prevents the user from stacking the bonuses with a shield.
Of course, you can do more with a tiny wall of force than simply using it to get a +2 shield bonus, but that's thinking outside the box.
Someone find whoever put it in the book and ask them, then smack 'em around for not using the formula provided and causing so many headaches. XDXD;)
Although a bit of rounding and giving the item 5 or 6 charges a day works...kinda...
And yes, deflection stack with all other bonuses to AC.
I don't know why, but for some reason I could've sworn I saw somewhere that Deflection bonuses stacked. Maybe it was that deflection stacked with every other bonus. That was it, I was getting it mixed up.
Dodge bonuses are the only type of bonus that always stacks, even with other dodge bonuses.
The difference between deflection and dodge. Deflection bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except for deflection.
Dodge bonuses stack with all other bonuses including other dodge bonuses. They are never supposed to be given by spells or magic items, and any time you would be denied your dex bonus to AC, you are also denied your dodge bonus. Dodge bonuses can also effect reflex saves.
Deflection bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except for deflection.
All bonuses stack with all other bonuses except themselves (and some, like dodge bonuses, stack even then), so there's nothing special about deflection bonuses in this regard.
Deflection bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except for deflection.All bonuses stack with all other bonuses except themselves (and some, like dodge bonuses, stack even then), so there's nothing special about deflection bonuses in this regard.
Noted, but the bonus in question was deflection. 'Twas merely a clarification for those who questioned how it works. The dodge bonus was mentioned only because it was also brought up in the discussion (although I do believe this discussion has gotten very off the original point, who votes for going back? XDXD;) )
Personally, I think the Ring of Force Shield is a ring and not a bracer because while I can picture the bracer version, I don't have any "iconic images" spring to mind from it. But the ring instantly conjures visions of Green Lantern comic books.
I'm running my first campaign and one of the players has a ring of force. He has a lot more DM experience then me, and he is making the argument that the ring of force is a shield that can block spells (like a wall of force). I just want your opinion on this, since I'm only seeing it as a heavy shield (+2ac) that is basically unbreakable and weightless. He feels that it should do more since he payed 8000 gp for it. How would you handle this situation, or is there just something I missed that solves this argument.
You are definitely seeing it correctly. As noted earlier in this thread, the ring is already undercosted according to the pricing formula.
That being said, there are a few reasons why the ring shouldn't work as your player wishes. First, the ring's description makes no mention of these additional abilities. The ability to block incoming spells is a pretty fantastic ability and definitely merits a mention if that was the intent. Second, the ring does not contribute to touch AC. That means a touch effect (a spell for example) that touches the force shield touches you by extension, i.e., the force shield does not block such effects. Finally, take a look at some of the magic items that do block incoming spells. You'll find that they are much more expensive and have a limited number of uses.
It sure sounds to me like this player is trying to take advantage of your inexperience. Just remember that you have the right to rule in favor of intent over logic and physics when necessary.
Resureccion!
So what about Shield Focus? Will this feat grant a bonus to a Force Shield wielder?
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Resureccion!
So what about Shield Focus? Will this feat grant a bonus to a Force Shield wielder?
Shield feats apply when you are using a shield. A ring of force shield gives a shield bonus but is not a shield. So I'd say you can't use shield focus per the rules.
However, I'd then allow it anyway as a house rule.
It sounds like the topic has been discussed very well.
Conclusions(at least my interpretation of what I have read so far)A ring of shield provides a shield AC bonus but that's it, no feats can be used with it no shield bashing, no shield focus or anything like that because it is a ring not a real shield.
I solved this long ago by asking my DM to allow my mage to make Bracers of shielding. They provide a shield bonus to AC instead of the usual armor bonus, since they are bracers you can add other effects like resistance or undead controlling just like a regular shield, no proficiency needed because they are bracers.
They work really well for my casters like mages or cloistered clerics that can't use shields but still want the AC.
Think about it. mages miss out on anywhere from +2 at start to +9(+4 tower and +5 bonus) and while they have mage armor and now greater mage armor they were missing out on shield bonuses that could have been a life saver.