Creative Director
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Sure the Orbs of Dragon Kind are Peachy and look good in your Wizard's Gallery or Laboratory but what of the Golarion Artefacts? Where is the Glass Idol of Shelyn that summons colossal Sand golems.
Artifacts, being big and full of story, tend to show up in the adventures now and then. We've done quite a few up in the Adventure Paths in fact. There's also some in Gods & Magic.
Sure the Orbs of Dragon Kind are Peachy and look good in your Wizard's Gallery or Laboratory but what of the Golarion Artefacts? Where is the Glass Idol of Shelyn that summons colossal Sand golems.
Serethiel and the Crown of Fangs are detailed in chapters 5 and 6 of CoTCT as well as 4 other artifacts! ;)
Theres your (not even the first!) Golarion ones as a quick example!
edit: Ninja'd by James by 30 seconds!
Then why not in the Pathfinder?
Not sure i understand this question?
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Creative Director
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Then why not in the Pathfinder?
If you mean, why not in the Pathfinder RPG?
These reasons:
1) The current game is a Beta. It's not complete. It's not done. We put some artifacts in the magic item appendix we posted online, and the final book will have some in it, but those'll be the standard stuff like the deck of many things.
2) The PF RPG is not the Golarion RPG, any more than D&D is the Forgotten Realms RPG or the Eberron RPG. PF RPG is world-neutral; with the exception of the names of 20 deities, there's no Golarion content in PF RPG at all, with the exception of the Pathfinder Chronicler Prestige Class (which, as the DMG included the Red Wizard of Thay from Forgotten Realms, is included as an example of an "in-world" prestige class). The Pathfidner RPG should be a game you can use to run campaigns set in ANY world. Paizo's campaign world is Golarion, but that's not what we expect everyone who uses the PFRPG to play in. Therefore, we aren't going to be putting a lot of Golarion content, like Golarion artifacts, into the RPG. Instead, those artifacts will continue to show up when needed in our numerous Golarion products, like the Adventure Paths, the modules, and the Chronicles line.
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Then why not in the Pathfinder?If you mean, why not in the Pathfinder RPG?
These reasons:
1) The current game is a Beta. It's not complete. It's not done. We put some artifacts in the magic item appendix we posted online, and the final book will have some in it, but those'll be the standard stuff like the deck of many things.
2) The PF RPG is not the Golarion RPG, any more than D&D is the Forgotten Realms RPG or the Eberron RPG. PF RPG is world-neutral; with the exception of the names of 20 deities, there's no Golarion content in PF RPG at all, with the exception of the Pathfinder Chronicler Prestige Class (which, as the DMG included the Red Wizard of Thay from Forgotten Realms, is included as an example of an "in-world" prestige class). The Pathfidner RPG should be a game you can use to run campaigns set in ANY world. Paizo's campaign world is Golarion, but that's not what we expect everyone who uses the PFRPG to play in. Therefore, we aren't going to be putting a lot of Golarion content, like Golarion artifacts, into the RPG. Instead, those artifacts will continue to show up when needed in our numerous Golarion products, like the Adventure Paths, the modules, and the Chronicles line.
Issues of a coherent branding and product look aside, do you guys ever regret using Pathfinder for both the Golarion and the RPG owing to exactly thing kind of confusion? I'm just curious because I know I'd be getting frustrated by now given how many times you've had to clarify the same thing, but then I know I've got very little patience.
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I think he means in the Pathfinder RPG, putting artifacts at the end of the magic items section.
yellodingo - because Pathfinder is still meant to be world-generic, not specific to Golarion. Artifacts that deal with Saranrae, etc, would break that.
Although I can see the argument for specific arguments, considering that in the cleric section it lists the Golarion gods. Devil's Advocate = But that's only because they needed *some kind* of deity list, and they couldn't use WotC ones.
Cheers.
edit: ninjaed. Darn.
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Creative Director
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Issues of a coherent branding and product look aside, do you guys ever regret using Pathfinder for both the Golarion and the RPG owing to exactly thing kind of confusion? I'm just curious because I know I'd be getting frustrated by now given how many times you've had to clarify the same thing, but then I know I've got very little patience.
Sometimes, yes. Absolutely. But the fact that Pathfinder's become such a recognizable brand to our distributors and customers is a thousand times more handy and cool. And honestly, if someone picks up the PF RPG and then picks up an Adventrue path simply because he likes the PF RPG and notices that the AP has the same brand... that's fine with me! :)
Wizards of the Coast put The Hand and Eye of Vecna and the Mace of Cuthbert in the artifacts section of the 3.5 DMG, both relics of the former mortal lives of deities in the general 3.5 rules set.
I can see a basis for at least considering the inclusion in the PFRPG of deity-associated artifacts for Iomedae, Norgorber, and/or Cayden Cailean...
I'm not convinced the situations are identical, though. The Hand and Eye of Vecna and the Mace of Cuthbert were iconic long before 3.5, more so than the gods they are associated with. One might argue those gods made it into 3.5 because of those artifacts. With Golarion being so new, no such pedigree exists. That being said, I agree with you and don't see any reason why Paizo can't put their own stamp on "core" and include some setting specific artifacts. Or reimagining some of the artifacts in the srd. I note that The Saint's Mace is actually open content though it's not in my copy of the magic item supplement download...
Then why not in the Pathfinder?If you mean, why not in the Pathfinder RPG?
These reasons:
1) The current game is a Beta. It's not complete. It's not done. We put some artifacts in the magic item appendix we posted online, and the final book will have some in it, but those'll be the standard stuff like the deck of many things.
2) The PF RPG is not the Golarion RPG, any more than D&D is the Forgotten Realms RPG or the Eberron RPG. PF RPG is world-neutral; with the exception of the names of 20 deities, there's no Golarion content in PF RPG at all, with the exception of the Pathfinder Chronicler Prestige Class (which, as the DMG included the Red Wizard of Thay from Forgotten Realms, is included as an example of an "in-world" prestige class). The Pathfidner RPG should be a game you can use to run campaigns set in ANY world. Paizo's campaign world is Golarion, but that's not what we expect everyone who uses the PFRPG to play in. Therefore, we aren't going to be putting a lot of Golarion content, like Golarion artifacts, into the RPG. Instead, those artifacts will continue to show up when needed in our numerous Golarion products, like the Adventure Paths, the modules, and the Chronicles line.
Wizards of the Coast put The Hand and Eye of Vecna and the Mace of Cuthbert in the artifacts section of the 3.5 DMG, both relics of the former mortal lives of deities in the general 3.5 rules set.
I can see a basis for at least considering the inclusion in the PFRPG of deity-associated artifacts for Iomedae, Norgorber, and/or Cayden Cailean.
If it has already been considered and the answer is a final 'no' I am disappointed, but can see that for reasons such as 'keep this game as absolutely setting-neutral as possible' that you might want to keep such items out (though in this case I think that the Pathfinder Chronicler has to go too, or be 'made over*' into a 'setting neutral' equivalent).Edit:
*I mean the prestige class...
Charles, i'd have to say that talking about artifacts and then saying the PrC needs to go is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. The inclusion/absense of one does not prohibit the other. James has already said there would be a few artifacts in the final as it stands, so it'd be their choice as to which ones, yes?
Sir Charles and company,
I seriously doubt that the Pathfinder Chronicler prestige class would make it into the PFRPG primary book any more than I expect to see any other retooled prestige classes from the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting book.
OT: Artifacts need an overhaul anyway - they're far too weak in terms of Ego and such as things stand IMO. So the best ones to include on initial release are ones with no ego scores, almost dictating that they be left to the realm of the minor artifacts such as the deck of many things. Intelligent items I can see being left out on a similar basis, as Ego scores are wuss "as is" in 3e terms.