How Much Does Channel Energy Affect Overall Healing?

[Neil Phillips]

Here is some food for thought:

Just for comparison, I wanted to see how Channel Energy affects overall healing, comparing a 3.5 SRD 10th level Cleric vs. a 10th level Pathfinder Cleric.

Assumptions: The Clerics have a Wis 16 (+3); and no feats or anything that adjusts healing or Channel Energy are used.

Here are the results. All are expressed as points healed per character, assuming a 4-member party, with Cure ____ Wounds spells split evenly between the four party members, and Mass Cure Light Wounds and Channel Energy always performed on all four characters simultaneously. Average dice means we assume each die roll is the median roll for the die. For d8 this is 4.5 points, for d6 it is 3.5 points.

3.5 Cleric (all spell slots traded for healing): 103 points healed per character.

3.5 Cleric (half of the spell slots traded for healing): 52 points healed per character.

Pathfinder Cleric (all spell slots traded for healing and all CE's used): 208 points healed per character.

Pathfinder Cleric (half of the spell slots traded for healing and all CE's used): 157 points healed per character.

Pathfinder Cleric (no spell slots traded for healing and all CE's used): 105 points healed per character.

So, as you can see, expending all the Channel Energy towards healing the party, a Pathfinder Cleric on average, can heal 2 points more damage than trading all the spell slots for healing without CE.

Is this good or bad, I dunno. Certainly your mileage will vary, as you may use less or more spells to trade, or not fully use CE to heal (until you get selective channeling which makes it way easier). However, it does seem like overall, there will be more points healed in a game day than in 3.5, and this may have an effect on Challenge Ratings.

[Studpuffin]

I thought the designers realized this and went forward anyway. I remember a blurb about how much more healing would be present in pathfinder than other sources.

I think part of the problem was the infamous "15 minute adventuring day". The healing is meant to prolong the time you can spend in a dungeon, which it achieves. If you have to use that much healing magic in a single fight... you were overmatched anyway. :shrug:

[Neil Phillips]

Well, I am just getting into this, so I missed the Alpha, but I am seeing some people saying it is too much and making things too easy.

As I am about to run a Pathfinder game I am trying to gauge how it will affect the feel of combat. This plus beefier core classes will change the feel a lot, and i want the game to have a dangerous feel, not a cakewalk. So, I am trying to think of empirical methods to judge this, as opposed to anecdotal stories.

[Eric Tillemans]

Neil Phillips wrote:

Is this good or bad, I dunno. Certainly your mileage will vary, as you may use less or more spells to trade, or not fully use CE to heal (until you get selective channeling which makes it way easier). However, it does seem like overall, there will be more points healed in a game day than in 3.5, and this may have an effect on Challenge Ratings.

In my home games I DM a 3.5 game, but I switched clerics over to using Pathfinder's Channel Energy. I've noticed a substantial increase in healing, which I'm not sure is a good or bad thing either.

I like it in that it allows my players to continue on aventuring for longer times between rests, but the channeling has also made a huge difference in some of the larger battles where the most of the party is getting damaged. Against one tough foe it doesn't help much, but when everyone is getting damaged at a relatively slow rate the channel pretty much negates the threat.

I'd almost like to see Channel Energy have 2 forms. In the first it could harm undead (at d6/level will save for 1/2) and cause them to cower (maybe for 1rnd/level, but allow the undead a save each round). In the second it would trigger Fast Healing 1 in all living creatures within 30' for 2 rounds per cleric level.

This would still allow Channeling to help with healing, yet effectively limit it to non-combat situations.

[Studpuffin]

Neil Phillips wrote:

Well, I am just getting into this, so I missed the Alpha, but I am seeing some people saying it is too much and making things too easy.

As I am about to run a Pathfinder game I am trying to gauge how it will affect the feel of combat. This plus beefier core classes will change the feel a lot, and i want the game to have a dangerous feel, not a cakewalk. So, I am trying to think of empirical methods to judge this, as opposed to anecdotal stories.

Definitely go with your gut before you make a judgement on the math here. The gameplay style will be SLIGHTLY different than 3.5 for many of the classes (unlimited cantrips, more spells, tougher warriors and thieves, more healing).

I thought the blurb was still in the Beta, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. There was a lot of anger before PFRPG started coming up about the "15MAD" where primary spellcasters ran out of sufficient spell power after only two or three combats. This was part of the solution: make healing more available.

<snark>I know you want crunch :)</snark> Since you're just starting, lemme say that I hope you have awesome gaming and many stories to tell afterward!

[Studpuffin]

Please also note that it heals EVERYONE in its area, including opponents. :)

[Neil Phillips]

Studpuffin wrote:

Please also note that it heals EVERYONE in its area, including opponents. :)

I know, but you can heal after fights when it is not a problem, probably choosing to expend some Spontaneously Cast Heal Spells during combat, until you get Selective Channeling.

Another thing is how it compares to Mass Cure spells. I mean, Mass Cure Light Wounds is a 5th level spell, you don't get it until you are a 7th level Cleric. So, in a way Channel Energy is kind of like a gimped Cure Light Wounds, Mass.

At 7th level Cure Light Wounds, Mass heals 1d8+7 points (11.5 points average to each character), while CE does 4d6+3 (in case of Wis 16, avg. 17 points per person).

[Eric Tillemans]

Studpuffin wrote:

Please also note that it heals EVERYONE in its area, including opponents. :)

Yes, but with the Selective Channeling feat and when fighting lots of mooks (who are either dead or uninjured), then healing your enemies doesn't come into play as much as I thought it would. Also, the cleric can strategically place himsef to limit healing enemies.

[Studpuffin]

Neil Phillips wrote:

Studpuffin wrote:

Please also note that it heals EVERYONE in its area, including opponents. :)

I know, but you can heal after fights when it is not a problem, probably choosing to expend some Spontaneously Cast Heal Spells during combat, until you get Selective Channeling.

That was a tack on to my above responding. This effectively means you can't use it in combat without a feat (and a feat that only lets you remove so many, not every combatant).

Neil Phillips wrote:

Another thing is how it compares to Mass Cure spells. I mean, Mass Cure Light Wounds is a 5th level spell, you don't get it until you are a 7th level Cleric. So, in a way Channel Energy is kind of like a gimped Cure Light Wounds, Mass.

First, MCLW is 5th level, meaning you don't get it until 9th. Second it excludes ALL opponents in its area. I'll agree with you that its strong compared to the Mass spells, but I've always thought the mass spells were weak and should be lower level (each by two SL or so).

Neil Phillips wrote:

At 7th level Cure Light Wounds, Mass heals 1d8+7 points (11.5 points average to each character), while CE does 4d6+3 (in case of Wis 16, avg. 17 points per person).

Well, if the differnce is now caster level, then the crunch would be 1d8+9 (13.5) vs 5d6+3 (20). I would then ask you to compare it to mass cure moderate. 2d8+11 (20) vs 6d6+3 (23). Then mass cure serious. 3d8+13 (26) vs 7d6+3 (26). You get the picture.

It really comes out pretty comparable per useage...

[Studpuffin]

Oh, I found the designer note. Its in the Beta on pg 149, if it helps. :)